Winter Transfer rumors

vanDEEZ wrote:Who is Onyx? Surely a name change.

I really don't see what changes RM would want to make over the winter; looming transfer ban or not.

I think we look okay to be honest. However, if Zidane puts his stamp on anyone to come I automatically give full approval.

Onyx is Mt.

@Mr Nick09 Obviously Weigl, Neves and Geis are better because they all have higher potential (84, 86 and 86 compared to 81 of Casemiro)

Why all the hate on casemiro? He's a very good DM imo whos pretty underrated here. Will Zidane give him more chances?

I think he can be the DM we need and plus, he's young

I cant think of anyone we'd need to buy apart from a back up striker ban or not. We are pretty covered around the whole pitch and have Cointhrow out on loan who we can just call back

Casemiro's a decent DM, however somebody like Weigl or Neves are much better with the ball and more intelligent. They're perfectly suited for the possession style we're moving towards. If we do sell Ronaldo, something like this would be good:

--------------Weigl
---------Modric---Kroos
---Bale----------------James/Isco
--------------Benz

James/Isco would be given a free role and would move to the middle, with Marcelo providing the width on the left.


Either that or:


--------------Weigl
---------Modric---Kroos
-------New false 9 type player
---Bale----------------Benzema

Benz moving the middle when we have the ball and Marcelo providing the width.

Casemiro is decent but he's not World Class he's a good backup imo nothing more, he recovers more ball than Kroos at leats that's the impression i had but he also suffers when he's being pressed and commits unnecesary faults, that being said i don't think we can improve in this winter

A Backup striker a Backup Left Back are more needed anyway.

MT you realize that Ruben Neves doesnt even play as a DM for his own team? lol

I sense a bit of the old MT. You can't count on Ronaldo going and even if so, you can almost count on a Hazard coming in his place. I do like the formation though, but it is not reasonable to expect it.

I like everything Zidane has done but to be fair we have to wait until big games before making judgement. Judgement on MF of Kross, Modric and Isco / James. Not to minimize it, but this midfield will define the rest of our season. If it falls apart then likely Kroos is dealt.

It will be interesting to see if Jese or James play in place of Bale for next couple of weeks. I still think it will be Jese and James needs to get with the program and actually start competing with Isco. If not he may well go next summer as well.

As far as the ban goes, I think they will win the appeal (as long as the list includes Zidane's kids) to CAS.

This team still has lots of talent and for the most part young. I expect a new CF, Pogba, Hazard, de Gea or Courtois, backup laterals and perhaps a DM to be considered. Possible outs are Ronaldo, Kroos, James, Navas, Arbeloa, Danilo, Denis, Lucas

Lucas has been good why would he leave ? Arbeloa as a 3rd choice fullback is also good.

casemiro is legit and could easily turn out WC, he ain't complaining or anything, hopefully zidane starts giving him some minutes soon.

Zidane always advocated that the most talented players for a given role need to play... he did that with NT when he was a player.  For example, he was the one that demanded Ribery to start in WC 2006 and took him under his wing.  Completely unproven kid that played huge in that tournament.

So i don't see that changing...  as long as there is a role in the team that you fill AND you're the best on the squad at it, you will play.  Hence the benching of Danilo and James for Isco and Carvajal.  

If you guys haven't noticed... we actually leaned right in our attacks these first two games as opposed to left (something that we had been doing since CR arrived).  That means that Zidane trusts Carvajal/Modric/Bale more than Marcelo/Kroos/CR...  and i think he's right because the defenses are designed to counter our left side so the right side will have more space. Once teams have to play us honestly on both sides, then it will really get fun because there will be spaces everywhere.

Valkyrja wrote:Lucas has been good why would he leave ? Arbeloa as a 3rd choice fullback is also good.

I wasn't saying Lucas is bad nor did I say he was going. I said possible outs!

Lucas because he is essentially the 22nd player on squad, not even dressing for some games. His departure will depend on who they acquire and squad numbers. I would be more than happy if he stayed as we definitely need some reserves for forwards, plus he has shown he has some capable versatility.

Unlike Denis, who is #23, who hasn't got the minutes (but I believe equally talented), the departure isn't as certain. Denis has both Villareal and Valencia after him.

As to Arbeloa, squad numbers will dictate his exit, plus he has several pursuers.

Claudio84 wrote:Casemiro is decent but he's not World Class he's a good backup imo nothing more, he recovers more ball than Kroos at leats that's the impression i had but he also suffers when he's being pressed and commits unnecesary faults, that being said i don't think we can improve in this winter

A Backup striker a Backup Left Back are more needed anyway.

I agree. People clamoring for a DM when we already have Classemiro.

Zidane's tactics don't use a DM in the traditional sense... more like an Alonso or a Motta who are good at recovering balls but also have great passing skills. So Casemiro is only going to a role player under Zizou and we obviously don't need another DM.

What we do need is a better person to fill that role than Kroos since he really is crap at ball recovery OR you can get CMs on the sides who are better defensively. Personally, i think Zizou wants to move Modric into the "Pirlo" role and surround him with Isco and Pogba. That's going to be his target midfield for next season.

If he were to play the best players, Bale, with all due respect to his recent performances should be on the bench. James and Isco are both better footballers.

The thing is bar a DM, and backups for Marcelo (Nacho is more than capable to backup Dani) and Benzema we don't need anyone. Even if Ronaldo left, Bale-Benzema-James is a world class front line. If given trust I think Jese might also grow into that role. The kid is that good. If Benzema leaves we will need a starting CF and a backup one. Maybe Mayoral will be that one or even Morata. Madrid's bench sounds better than Juve's bench. Recall Asensio and Diego Llorente who's been good for Rayo.

Keylor, Kiko
Carvajal, Nacho
Ramos, Varane, Pepe, Llorente
Marcelo, Gaya
DM, Casemiro, Modric, Ceballos, Isco, Kovacic
James, Asensio, Bale, Jese, Lucas Vasquez
Benzema/CF, backup CF


In case Kroos and Ronaldo leave.

sportsczy wrote:Zidane's tactics don't use a DM in the traditional sense... more like an Alonso or a Motta who are good at recovering balls but also have great passing skills. So Casemiro is only going to a role player under Zizou and we obviously don't need another DM.

What we do need is a better person to fill that role than Kroos since he really is crap at ball recovery OR you can get CMs on the sides who are better defensively. Personally, i think Zizou wants to move Modric into the "Pirlo" role and surround him with Isco and Pogba. That's going to be his target midfield for next season.

I don't think that midfield will work against big teams, Pogba despite his athleticism doesn't defend at all (because he's too attacking minded, and he's right he's better at attacking than defending) Isco unlike Pogba is more willing to help out on defense but doesn't have phisically what it takes to do so.

sportsczy wrote:Zidane's tactics don't use a DM in the traditional sense... more like an Alonso or a Motta who are good at recovering balls but also have great passing skills.  So Casemiro is only going to a role player under Zizou and we obviously don't need another DM.

What we do need is a better person to fill that role than Kroos since he really is crap at ball recovery OR you can get CMs on the sides who are better defensively.  Personally, i think Zizou wants to move Modric into the "Pirlo" role and surround him with Isco and Pogba.  That's going to be his target midfield for next season.

this is what i can't stand on this forum, just to hype a player you like, other players have to be put down, casemiro has great passing, its funny how you guys are acting like you weren't raving about him couple months ago(to put kroos down) when he got mins, now he ain't playing you wanna act he hasn't been doing anything just to hype shitty pogba next .

this is why opinions on this can be very rubbish, can't even stick to a point for a week.

sportsczy wrote:Zidane's tactics don't use a DM in the traditional sense... more like an Alonso or a Motta who are good at recovering balls but also have great passing skills. So Casemiro is only going to a role player under Zizou and we obviously don't need another DM.

What we do need is a better person to fill that role than Kroos since he really is crap at ball recovery OR you can get CMs on the sides who are better defensively. Personally, i think Zizou wants to move Modric into the "Pirlo" role and surround him with Isco and Pogba. That's going to be his target midfield for next season.

Sports, i dont know why you keep saying "Zidane's tactics" as if it's a predefine thing. We know nothing of him, we are discovering him. You said his castilla days dont matter so then, let's watch him NOW.

From the look of it, he is copying and pasting what Carlo drilled this team into doing for the past two years, very smartly, the players like playing this way.

As for Modric playing in front of the defense, i believe it when i see lol, sounds like a terrible idea.

We dont know what target Zidane has in mind, not sure why in your post you act like you had a chat with him and he told you all he wanted to do. This is guess work at best.

There are a million directions he can take this team as far as personel, Pogba or not. What WE KNOW is what he is talking about in the press room, pressing, and trying to get everyone involved without the ball which is a weakness of ours.

Because Nick, if you read about the coaches that Zidane decided to visit as part of his coaching studies in France (Pep, Bielsa, Blanc, Sampaoli and Gourcuff) + everything he has said about the style he admires and emulates = possession/short passing football with smaller line gaps and a high line.  Unless there's a DM out there with great technical ability that can move and play that kind of footy, he's not going to use a DM.  It's really that simple.  He's going to rely on the forwards helping out the midfielders.

yeah and Makelele visited the same coaches, was shat at Bastia, and is now a sporting director lol, it means nothing.

We dont even need to know what coaches he has visited with, he talks about the style he wants in the press round every week.

this is my issue

Unless there's a DM out there with great technical ability that can move and play that kind of footy, he's not going to use a DM.

It's just ridiculous to say something like that because it has no ground whatsoever. and then you leap that into "Modric will be his Pirlo"

I dont understand why you make those statements, nor what;s the point of trying to guess his train of thought as if you have insight into what he wants.

If he truly wishes to emulate Pep or Bielsa, then he will never play Modric in that position

Bielsa whom he visited played with more traditional DMs yet still achieved high pressing and short passing. So how can you say that he is following the philosophy of those guys (as if they all believe in the same exact things anyway) but exclude that he can use a DM like Casemiro (Casemiro btw was pretty successful in a team which had similar idea in Porto last season). You are contradicting yourself.

All of this because you are guessing instead of letting things unfold, we dont know enough, two games are not enough to know what he wants. His ideas can evolve, things he wasnt planning to do might happen and make him rethink his initial ideas.

Yaya was the DM followed by Busquets at Barca... doesn't get more technical than that at the position.  He refused to play Mascherano there because he lacked the skills he wanted.

At Bayern, he moved Javi Martinez to CB because he lacked the skills.  He put Lahm there because he is skilled.

Get the idea?

It's not about being physical or fast.  It's about being able read passing lanes and get in the way and, more importantly, have the technical skill to be comfortable with the ball so you don't lose it when you get it back.

Not sure why you're getting so angry.  With the style Zizou has NUMEROUSLY preached about wanting to execute if he became a manager...  you are looking to play total football.  Everyone needs to have a certain level in all facets of the game.  For example, the forwards must defend and the defenders must feel comfortable with the ball at their feet.  I don't think he's going to go that drastic this year because Madrid hasn't trained for this... but you see the general concepts already and you will see it much more next season if Zizou sticks.

Oh and Bielsa played a 352...  so he did have a DM because his fullbacks were really wingers.  With only 3 defenders and very high pressing, you need another player to cover.  Pep based his defense on Bielsa's concepts but not so much the attack.  As Zidane stated again in the past... he sees Pep as his role model and, since Bielsa was Pep's inspiration to some extent, he observed him too.  Blanc is a Pep admirer as well and the Chile coach is a Bielsist.  The only outsider here is Gourcuff....  but he's also a big believer in total football.  It's all very consistent. Zizou wanted to observe the different current incarnations of similar philosophies.

I'd be frankly shocked if Zizou deviated from his words.  He's mentioned this stuff for the past couple of years.  You never know though.

Don't word put words in Nick's, err, mouth but I'm gonna assume he isn't angry but perplexed as to your surety of Zidane's tactics and know-how considering when, technically, Zizou is a bit of a noob at this level.

I of course don't care and just wanna see Zidane do great things for my club.

@Sports, you are still contradicting yourself. On one line you are predicting his dream midfield is to play Modric in the Pirlo role surrounded by Pogba-Isco, which is essentially an Ancelotti's Milan era idea.

Then you say that Zizou is a Pep/Bielsa disciple, who would never play someone with Modric's qualities in front of their defense as a pivot.

If zidane is Pep's discipline then he is looking for that rare pivote talent that will be the base of everything he does

Or maybe Zizou is the rainbow that will unify all football philosophers eh?

No.  That's not true.  Pogba is obviously capable of playing whatever style he wants given that both Pep and Barca are also recruiting him hard.  He's the type of player where style doesn't matter since he's so well rounded. My only point is that there are very few DMs in today's football and those that do play that role aren't good enough technically with very very few exceptions.

So you're saying that coaching influences that Zizou openly advocates aren't going to affect his style?

I mean look at our first two games. We're finally flooding the midfield forcing the opponent to narrow and play up its defense to counter our numbers there... and then we're bombing our fullbacks wide. We're narrowing both our man gaps and our line gaps while stretching the pitch.

sportsczy wrote:
So you're saying that coaching influences that Zizou openly advocates aren't going to affect his style?

Benitez is a well known Sacchi admirer and disciple.

Still he didn't exactly manage to make Real play ..err..compact and hard-pressing.

And this is a proven manager we're talking about, who had some level of success everywhere with multiple teams.

Zidane on the other hand...
Food for thought.

sportsczy wrote:No.  That's not true.  Pogba is obviously capable of playing whatever style he wants given that both Pep and Barca are also recruiting him hard.  He's the type of player where style doesn't matter since he's so well rounded.  My only point is that there are very few DMs in today's football and those that do play that role aren't good enough technically with very very few exceptions.  

So you're saying that coaching influences that Zizou openly advocates aren't going to affect his style?

I mean look at our first two games.  We're finally flooding the midfield forcing the opponent to narrow and play up its defense to counter our numbers there...  and then we're bombing our fullbacks wide.  We're narrowing both our man gaps and our line gaps while stretching the pitch.  

I am not questioning Pogba's quality, i just pointed to an obvious contradiction in your arguments. Modric playind pivote in front of the defense, something Pep/Bielsa would never do. You are clearly avoiding to address that point...

this is what you said

Personally, i think Zizou wants to move Modric into the "Pirlo" role and surround him with Isco and Pogba.  That's going to be his target midfield for next season.

Since you know everything of Pep philosophy and Zidane is his heir, tell me in what universe that fits into what Pep would ever do

Really.... so playing Lahm as the covering mid was completely predictable according to you.  Or playing Lemina, Romao, Fanni and Morel as CBs were equally logical evolutions.

Pretty clear that neither Bielsa nor Pep give a damn about what your position was prior to them taking over... they just care about skillset.