The curious case of Arsene Wenger and FC Arsenal

urbaNRoots wrote:For me it remains the same, if Wenger can make this team compete for the PL/FA Cup and win it then I'd love him to stay, nothing would please me more.

Should he not be able to do that though, I'd like to see a change especially since the Klopp's/Ancelotti's and maybe more in the summer will be available.

Really? Another FA Cup run?

Shouldn't it be legit contenders in the PL and progress in the CL rather than that?

You would be ok with another FA Cup if he fails in the PL again?

Why not ?

Some of you sound so ridiculous.How many trophies did Madrid win last yr again ?

Yeah another FA Cup would be fantastic.

From what I can tell, they have for a very long time now, either struggled with injuries to several players, or failed to perform when it mattered, due to certain key players performing inconsistently throughout the season. It also doesn't help that their top players tend to leave for bigger clubs, once their marketability peaks. This may not have been a problem if they had the resources and willingness to replace those players with established talent, but we all know Wenger's policy in that regard, and his recent purchases of Özil and Sanchez didn't fool anyone into believing that he's suddenly made a habit of cashing out for top talent.

I've admired Arsenal ever since I collected football cards in elementary school, and despite all of his flaws, I have great respect for Arsene Wenger as a manager. With that being said, I honestly struggle to see how they plan to consistently fight for silverware when top players keep heading to more ambitious clubs, and Wenger is hellbent on replacing them by slowly developing new prospects in their stead, as opposed to spending money on players that are far more likely to make an instant impact.

Arsenal is a club that's easy to like from a neutral perspective, in my opinion, and I believe that Wenger is largely responsible for that. However, I also believe that Wenger is largely responsible for their lack of trophies - because despite all of the great things he's achieved from a managerial standpoint in developing great players and successfully fighting for a top 4 finish on a relatively limited budget; he's still insistent on proving that his philosophy which hasn't brought any silverware of note over the past decade, will eventually bear fruit. I don't know what goes through Wenger's head, but I have a feeling that he considers himself far more ambitious than what seems to be the case.

LeBéninois wrote:

Grande_Milano wrote:Its time we accept this man is not an elite coach

He's past it , no big deal.

I highly doubt that he's past it. I don't follow Arsenal on a regular basis anymore, but from what I can tell, little seems to have changed since the legendary invincibles season, in terms of how he manages the team. Apart from inexplainable injury problems, his main issue is his inability to convince his top players to stay once they mature and hit peak form, which is probably a result of him opting for the patient route, rather than strengthening key positions with expensive, established players.

Thimmy wrote:

LeBéninois wrote:

Grande_Milano wrote:Its time we accept this man is not an elite coach

He's past it , no big deal.

I highly doubt that he's past it. I don't follow Arsenal on a regular basis anymore, but from what I can tell, little seems to have changed since the legendary invincibles season, in terms of how he manages the team. Apart from inexplainable injury problems, his main issue is his inability to convince his top players to stay once they mature and hit peak form, which is probably a result of him opting for the patient route, rather than strengthening key positions with expensive, established players.

This was like 5 years ago.

Raptorgunner wrote:

Thimmy wrote:

LeBéninois wrote:


He's past it , no big deal.

I highly doubt that he's past it. I don't follow Arsenal on a regular basis anymore, but from what I can tell, little seems to have changed since the legendary invincibles season, in terms of how he manages the team. Apart from inexplainable injury problems, his main issue is his inability to convince his top players to stay once they mature and hit peak form, which is probably a result of him opting for the patient route, rather than strengthening key positions with expensive, established players.

This was like 5 years ago.

What was 5 years ago? The sale of Fabregas?

A lot of Thimmy's argument would have applied a few seasons ago, but not now. Losing our best players to other clubs is no longer an issue because we can pay them better and spend big on players, therefore "convincing" our better players of our ambition. A lot of best players (Koscielny, Ramsey, Cazorla, Walcott) have signed new contracts in the last year or two, when a few years ago they would have left for bigger and better things.

Also, since 2011, the emphasis has very much switched from developing talent to buying established talent. If you look at a list of our signings since then the majority of them will be in their mid-to-late 20s. The refusal to spend big sums more frequently doesn't come from a preference for young, developing players, but a refusal to meet modern day valuations because they don't match the manager's own valuations.

He wants to do things his way all the time, but the big problem is that his way no longer applies to modern day football. This is an era where physical and tactical preparation of players are highly important components of a winning team, two things that Wenger has been left far behind on. That's where the injuries and failure to win big matches comes from, and why people say he's now past it. It's an era where the transfer market is at its most competitive and prices are high, and the unwillingness to meet this prices and sufficiently reinforce the squads holds the club back. It's not so much a philosophy now as it is stubbornness.

GoonerJay29 wrote:A lot of Thimmy's argument would have applied a few seasons ago, but not now. Losing our best players to other clubs is no longer an issue because we can pay them better and spend big on players, therefore "convincing" our better players of our ambition. A lot of best players (Koscielny, Ramsey, Cazorla, Walcott) have signed new contracts in the last year or two, when a few years ago they would have left for bigger and better things.

Also, since 2011, the emphasis has very much switched from developing talent to buying established talent. If you look at a list of our signings since then the majority of them will be in their mid-to-late 20s. The refusal to spend big sums more frequently doesn't come from a preference for young, developing players, but a refusal to meet modern day valuations because they don't match the manager's own valuations.

He wants to do things his way all the time, but the big problem is that his way no longer applies to modern day football. This is an era where physical and tactical preparation of players are highly important components of a winning team, two things that Wenger has been left far behind on. That's where the injuries and failure to win big matches comes from, and why people say he's now past it. It's an era where the transfer market is at its most competitive and prices are high, and the unwillingness to meet this prices and sufficiently reinforce the squads holds the club back. It's not so much a philosophy now as it is stubbornness.

It's really great that Walcott has recently signed a new contract. Ramsey is still relatively young. Cazorla and Koscielny, while both very good, aren't exactly the type of players I had in mind, considering they're both in their 30s. It looks like we pretty much agree about Wenger. It may only be stubbornness, but it's a stubbornness that he's possessed for as long as I can remember. I hope you're right, and for once, it would be great if Wenger manages to hold onto players like Ramsey, Gibbs, Monreal, Welbeck and Chamberlain, which are all players that Wenger typically gets the best out of, but eventually ends up selling. I appreciate the reply

S wrote:Why not ?

Some of you sound so ridiculous.How many trophies did Madrid win last yr again ?

I hope this is an attempt to play Devils Advocate, because if it is not then this is an extremely stupid statment.

But Jay dont you think that you are keeping and renewing most of your players also because other teams are not interested in them?

Its a genuine question. I dont think there is one arsenal player now thats being chased by a bigger club aka madrid, barca bayer; or buy a club that can outspend you aka man u man City psg etc...

We just lost RVP not long ago, incidently that's when our supposed financial draught ended. Arsenal doesn't have that many worldclass players to begin with, I count four, Ozil, Sanchez, Kozz and Cech. Two are Barca, Real rejects, one is NT bench back up and one is 33 years old. One more year w/o winning anything major, I'm sure clubs will come knocking for them and in 2 years time, Barca in for Bellerin.

Mr Nick09 wrote:But Jay dont you think that you are keeping and renewing most of your players also because other teams are not interested in them?

Its a genuine question. I dont think there is one arsenal player now thats being chased by a bigger club aka madrid, barca bayer; or buy a club that can outspend you aka man u man City psg etc...

That could also be true. Rumours and paper talk aside, there hasn't been anything on the scale of Fabregas' and van Persie's transfers. The threat of a Bacea, Madrid or Bayern coming in for one of our players hasn't been there, though that'll probably change if Bellerin keeps developing as he is. Even then, losing Bellerin wouldn't set back the whole project.

I do like to think, though, that in the event of a big club coming in for one of our players that we have a greater capacity to resist than we used to, simply because the need for money isn't as strong as before.

Losing Bellerin though would still be awful, I have no faith in Debuchy or Jenkinson whatsoever.

Big(ger) clubs have also been deterred because said players signed longer deals before getting into the last year of their contracts - which, incidentally, is when we have sold the bigger players in the past years.

Secondly, as already stated, it just so happens that current 'big' players are either old, or have already been with Barca/Real/Chelsea respectively.

The others have potential, but aren't (huge) improvements than what said big(ger) clubs already have at their disposal right now.

El Gunner wrote:Losing Bellerin though would still be awful, I have no faith in Debuchy or Jenkinson whatsoever.

Watch him have his leg broken and or get muscle injuries from being overplayed - just as we have had with every single young talented player in the last decade or so.

If Arsenal lose on Sunday.    

Sky Sports News reporter Andy Burton began by asking Wenger about his decision to select David Ospina ahead of Petr Cech for Wednesday’s clash with Olympiacos.

Ospina world class.  

WENGER: All that’s been said in the press conference. I don’t change a word of what I said. Looking at Ospina and Petr Cech I think I have two world-class goalkeepers and it’s the easiest choice I have to make because I can pick any of the two and I am very comfortable.

It’s the most difficult as well because both are two world-class players and always you have to leave one out.

REPORTER: But you said we ignored things, what did we ignore?

W: Like I don’t know anything that you do in your job. You make decisions and you have more information than I have and it’s exactly the same in my job.

R: That’s not ignoring stuff though is, it? If we don’t have the information we can’t ignore it.

W: You come to the game and assess: was I right or wrong. I never criticise that. I accept your judgment of how the team played and your assessment. But I don’t have to give you all the information regarding my decisions.

R: That’s fair enough. Do you accept that when you look at your squad in the summer and you think we only need to strengthen in one area which is the goalkeeper and when it comes to a competition in the Champions League that you want to improve upon, when you don’t use the guy you think improves your side in that the fans will be frustrated and angry, do you understand that?

W: No. Not at all.

R: Why?

W: I make the decision I think is right on the day.

R: You said after the game you aren’t accountable to people for your selection. Do you think you should be accountable? Is it healthy that you are not?

W: I am accountable on the results of my team and the way they play football.

Do you think you should be more accountable to fans on selection issues. Or you don’t see that as a valid argument?

W: I just gave you the answer.

R: If you’re not accountable in that way, does that not make Jose Mourinho right when he says that there’s only manager who’s not under pressure?

W: Look. Stop that story or we stop the press conference

@8Fact_Footballl 40m40 minutes ago
Arsene Wenger has now lost more games in the Champions League than any other managers in the competitions history!

Can't wait till we rename the stadium after him and he leaves. Hopefully this summer.