The Hit List 2015

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Cruijf
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Post by Forza Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:25 am

LEAST WANTED (6 remaining)

Agazzi
Abbiati
Zaccardo
Alex
Mexes
Zapata

ELIMINATED

Amelia --> ELIMINATED (FREE AGENT)
Coppola --> ELIMINATED (BOLOGNA)
Silvestre --> ELIMINATED (RETURNED TO INTER)
Bochetti --> ELIMINATED (RETURNED TO SPARTAK MOSCOW)
Bonera --> ELIMINATED (RELEASED)
Constant --> ELIMINATED (TRABZONSPOR)
Emanuelson --> ELIMINATED (ROMA)
Nocerino --> ELIMINATED (TORINO)
Traore --> ELIMINATED (BURSASPOR)
Essien --> ELIMINATED (PANATHINAIKOS)
Muntari --> ELIMINATED (ITTIHAD FC)
Birsa --> ELIMINATED (CHIEVO)
Kaka --> ELIMINATED (ORLANDO CITY --> LOAN TO SAO PAULO)
Robinho --> ELIMINATED (SANTOS)
Matri --> ELIMINATED (GENOA)
Torres ---> ELIMINATED (ATLETICO MADRID)
Pazzini --> ELIMINATED (HELLAS VERONA)


Last edited by Forza on Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:49 am; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Guest Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:35 am

i would want to add de sciglio and montolivo in the list

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Post by Forza Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:44 am

I don't know that we want to outright get rid of MDS and Monty yet. MDS may yet develop into a good player. Monty is still a v. good bench option if he is willing to stay and accept a lesser role as the team (hopefully) moves forward.
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Post by Cookie Monster Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:22 am

JespSwe wrote:i would want to add de sciglio and montolivo in the list


If we get rid of De Sciglio now, he'll end up at a mid table club, play really well for a few seasons then end up at Juve. You have to give young players a chance, especially young defenders. He showed he has potential. With some stability and a real coach his performances will improve.
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Post by Il Diavolo Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:44 pm

Cookie Monster wrote:
JespSwe wrote:i would want to add de sciglio and montolivo in the list


If we get rid of De Sciglio now, he'll end up at a mid table club, play really well for a few seasons then end up at Juve. You have to give young players a chance, especially young defenders. He showed he has potential. With some stability and a real coach his performances will improve.


Totally agree with that. He didn't have the best of seasons but this was one of the worst seasons for our whole team and being inexperienced and young, a drop like this is expected given the morale of our team. He showed so much promise (and not just promise, he performed very well) and we can't just give up on him after one bad season (especially a season like this one).
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Post by Valkyrja Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:23 pm

De Sciglio ? really ?
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Post by uzonero Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:40 pm

If we are to place our assessment of the players from last season, I doubt any one of them should escape making the Hit list
A change of mentality from the supposed talented players and getting rid of the viruses is what we need

One thing is certain though, this is gonna be a very exciting summer
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Post by uzonero Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:47 pm

JespSwe wrote:i would want to add de sciglio and montolivo in the list
I won't be quick to get rid of De Sciglio. He is young, a milan product and has shown quality in the past. Right now he's a little over rated but I think he can reach great heights if handled properly by a good manager

On Montolivo, I'd give him another season. He showed his qualities during his Fiorentina days and in his first year here. First off, I think he needs to be stripped off the armband cos it seems like the pressure of being the captain of a historic team like Milan has gotten to him and as such affected his performance for the last two years
His experience and leadership would be vital in our transition but not as a captain
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Post by Dante Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:59 pm

not sure who said it here , but it was one of these days

Selling De Sciglio to anywhere in Italy will eventually lead him to Juventus or Roma .

De Sciglio won't be sold anyway . He still has his entire career in front of him and all players have their bad seasons. He deserves to stay and have many chances to prove that we can trust him . Same as with Ses really.

That's not to say he should be a starter no matter how badly he does , just that he fully deserves to have all the chances he needs to prove he's worthy to be a Milan player. I think he is , but he must continue to work and improve , so as to become vital for Milan. That has to be his objective , no sell talk plez

De Sciglio has incredible potential and that's not just hype , the NT calls don't lie . We can't give up on him , especially when things aren't straight forward.

As for Montolivo , he has been incredibly unfortunate with injuries and usually this doesn't end up well for the player. Having that said , he will have this season to prove to those who doubt him what he is capable of . As for the armband , if Ibrahimovic joins , it will be his . If not , then Montolivo remains as the captain of the team.

Associating Montolivo's misfortunes with Montolivo being captain is at the very least wrong . Montolivo isn't a bad captain , nor is he an exceptional captain. He's the captain , us here can't tell where he does wrong or talk about how he handles situations around the team.

Being a captain for a team isn't so much about on the field issues , more like off of it. So i fully disagree with the notion that Montolivo should not be captain for such dumbious reasons , unless Ibrahimovic returns , he will remain the captain and rightfully so , there's no one more worthy than him.

It's not pressure that got to him but the injuries. As far as i can see , teammates all respect him and we have had no incidents with Montolivo at all. He's respected and more experienced than most players we have nowdays. All the rest is irrelevant and just speculation , there's nothing wrong with Montolivo being the captain of this Milan .

And i still remember people praising the decision when he was playing well , there's all i need to know really. Injuries fkd him up now and fans talk trash . If he can return to a competitive level , then i am all in to keep him and stay as captain , if he can't get back to it , then he should leave for everyone's sake.

Something last , even if Ibra returns and somehow ends up as captain. Montolivo will still be 2nd captain anyway .
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Post by Based Bonera Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:57 pm

MDS and SES are not just vital for Milan but for Italy's future as well. We would be stupid to sell any of them. They shouldn't go anywhere for another 2-3 seasons at least. And then maybe we could come back and have this talk.

We need to build the team around these 2 young guys who have the potential to become World Class one day.
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Post by Dante Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:16 pm

Don't know about world class , because few players were destined to be world class in the first place , but these two have everything required to become leaders for Milan one day .

Selling them because they had a bad season , will be the most stupid thing ever. They don't sell Bonera all these years , i doubt we are going to sell for such reasons . I think Milan doesn't look to sell either , but i am afraid they won't resist a great offer for Ses .

In any case , Ses cost something like 17m , if he does leave , it will be for serious money . And i don't see anybody spending this kind of money on him right now , no matter his potential. He's played a month or so in 2 years , he ain't going anywhere and De Sciglio had a bad season and won't be cheap either.

Both are staying and hopefully they do good next season. No reason for them to be on the hitlist in any case
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Post by dostoevsky Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:41 pm

I know Dante has already addressed this to an extent but I feel I must also.

It's difficult to understand just how one can decry the state of our midfield and at the same time assert that we must remove Montolivo. Perhaps you enjoy sponsoring Juventus' rise to the top of European football. We've handed them Pirlo and Allegri, why stop there after all? Because if we put Monty up for sale, there's not a CL club in the world who wouldn't gladly have him.

This obsession with stats - from the Mr Bee thread - is confusing and the focus on his very recent performances even more absurd. He managed 10 league games due to injury, hardly time enough to get back to his best after a long lay off especially given the chaos unleashed on the pitch by Inzaghi. Even the previous season he spent large portions of the season out of position at AM due to our injury crisis before being ruled out himself. If people were calling for us to bring in a high quality alternative due to his injury concerns I would absolutely understand this. Even should he remain fit this season we would be well served to bring in another player capable of playing in front of the defence, even if De Jong renews. To question his quality or even his leadership however on the basis of his assist numbers is completely unwarranted. We've seen what Montolivo can do when he led us to third place, consistently featuring as our Man of the Match during this run. He's a very complete midfielder both technically and tactically but we cannot expect him to fulfil multiple roles at once. What we must do is ensure that he is surrounded by players who complement him.

Jesp's main issue seems to be midfield creativity and in this I agree absolutely with him that our midfield is deficient. Where I vehemently disagree is that this is somehow the product of one player, much less Montolivo. The very fact that we roll off a list of names when discussing our midfield of the past accentuates that these were players who benefited from a cohesive team structure in which there were multiple sources of creativity. Take just one of our past stars and put them in a side in which there is no consistent approach emanating from the coach, in which there is no movement between the lines in midfield, in which there are no runners in behind and no consistency in the line up and any one of them would struggle. A central midfielder more than any other player relies on those around them. With a broken forward structure, Iniesta, Xavi and Fabregas looked little more than lost sheep when Bayern steamrolled Barcelona a few years ago. Their talent, undeniable and undiminished, was of little consequence.

What is more important is the existence of a clear team structure that covers the weaknesses of our players and accentuates their strengths. The term talent is almost a cop out in football. Tiago was seen as "not good enough" for a Juventus side that finished 7th in Serie A. Last year he stated in the Champions League final. Likewise, Rafinha was surplus to requirements at mid-table Genoa and has since gone on to join and regularly start for one of the most dominant sides in world football, Bayern Munich. Neither of these players have undergone extraordinary growth since leaving Italy, nor were they world beaters being misused. They are functional professionals given a clear role by their coach that suits their strengths and hides their weaknesses. Montolivo is an extremely similar player to Carrick, a man who played three Champions League finals in five years and a player who United have still not sufficiently replaced with all of their hundreds of millions of euros. Modric, Xabi Alonso, Schweinsteiger and Kroos have all fulfilled comparable roles in their teams and are amongst the best in their positions. You'll find that their assist numbers are largely inflated by their set piece deliveries rather than their contributions in open play, which tends to reflect more on the team and their set piece coaching than the ability of any one player. What is most important however is that they are given restricted roles in the final third. They contribute, no doubt, but they each benefit from the presence of highly dominant individuals on the flanks and either one or two highly mobile attacking midfielders who drift between the lines of defence and midfield.

It is this combination that has helped to craft the most potent attacking forces in modern football. No successful attacking team has only one creative reference point in their midfield. Most have at least three or more options in their squad, in addition to the creative threats housed in attack. What Montolivo gives us is a base from which to launch. He is best used as the first player to receive the ball out of defence but he needs ideally a mobile midfielder capable of holding the ball under pressure and either a creative wide player or trequartista depending upon the formation Sinisa chooses.

As for the captaincy issue, exactly who would people like to hand the armband to? Muntari? Shuffling the armband achieves nothing. Great sides have multiple leaders, players who enforce themselves on a game no matter what and who are never bystanders. Gattuso was never a permanent captain but he acted like one on the pitch alongside the more publicly diplomatic Ambrosini. Vidal and Tevez will never captain Juventus but they are leaders. We can't just have one leader with an armband, it will never be enough. The armband itself is meaningless when it comes to playing football. Nesta hated to ever touch it for us but it didn't stop him from being a tremendous leader. These arguments, scapegoating some of our best players, are ironically typical of the short sighted idea of management that has led our club into its current trouble. We should be strengthening our spine right now not ripping it out. Focus on the real deadwood and save your breath.
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Post by dostoevsky Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:48 pm

As for De Sciglio, I don't understand how people can at the same time complain about our management but want to sell De Sciglio and purchase Darmian. Please tell me that you at least appreciate the irony.

Right now, there is absolutely nothing to gain from selling MDS. If he were a starter, I could understand the argument that he's a liability but he's not even in our first eleven right now. What do we gain from selling a young player, with huge potential to grow, who covers multiple positions and who is essentially just a depth player right now? Antonelli is our starting left back right now, no questions asked, so why the fuss? De Sciglio has a chance to grow again after Inzaghi's sacking and to learn from a real coach but he will need to compete for time against an experienced fullback who has proven his worth in the league. What better situation could we hope for and you want to sell him? No one even blinked when Darmian left, just how much do you think someone like Torino will fetch for De Sciglio in four years? We weep that Inzaghi didn't play a bunch of teenagers no one here has seen play for more than two minutes during the season but we're baying for the blood of our only young defender. Playing at the back requires more experience than any position in football. We don't need to sell De Sciglio, we need to readjust our expectations for the poor lad and let him compete for time. He'll have chances throughout the season and if he doesn't take them he'll stay on the bench. That's the reality for every young player. Despite all the clamour around Bee and Galliani's new treasure chest we are not in the position to go out and buy shiny new toys all over the pitch. We need to identify those who are still useful and spend our money wisely, not waste time juggling fullbacks, the one area of the pitch where we actually have relative quality and depth.
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Post by Dante Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:03 pm

dostoevsky wrote:I know Dante has already addressed this to an extent but I feel I must also.

It's difficult to understand just how one can decry the state of our midfield and at the same time assert that we must remove Montolivo. Perhaps you enjoy sponsoring Juventus' rise to the top of European football. We've handed them Pirlo and Allegri, why stop there after all? Because if we put Monty up for sale, there's not a CL club in the world who wouldn't gladly have him.

This obsession with stats - from the Mr Bee thread - is confusing and the focus on his very recent performances even more absurd. He managed 10 league games due to injury, hardly time enough to get back to his best after a long lay off especially given the chaos unleashed on the pitch by Inzaghi. Even the previous season he spent large portions of the season out of position at AM due to our injury crisis before being ruled out himself. If people were calling for us to bring in a high quality alternative due to his injury concerns I would absolutely understand this. Even should he remain fit this season we would be well served to bring in another player capable of playing in front of the defence, even if De Jong renews. To question his quality or even his leadership however on the basis of his assist numbers is completely unwarranted. We've seen what Montolivo can do when he led us to third place, consistently featuring as our Man of the Match during this run. He's a very complete midfielder both technically and tactically but we cannot expect him to fulfil multiple roles at once. What we must do is ensure that he is surrounded by players who complement him.

Jesp's main issue seems to be midfield creativity and in this I agree absolutely with him that our midfield is deficient. Where I vehemently disagree is that this is somehow the product of one player, much less Montolivo. The very fact that we roll off a list of names when discussing our midfield of the past accentuates that these were players who benefited from a cohesive team structure in which there were multiple sources of creativity. Take just one of our past stars and put them in a side in which there is no consistent approach emanating from the coach, in which there is no movement between the lines in midfield, in which there are no runners in behind and no consistency in the line up and any one of them would struggle. A central midfielder more than any other player relies on those around them. With a broken forward structure, Iniesta, Xavi and Fabregas looked little more than lost sheep when Bayern steamrolled Barcelona a few years ago. Their talent, undeniable and undiminished, was of little consequence.

What is more important is the existence of a clear team structure that covers the weaknesses of our players and accentuates their strengths. The term talent is almost a cop out in football. Tiago was seen as "not good enough" for a Juventus side that finished 7th in Serie A. Last year he stated in the Champions League final. Likewise, Rafinha was surplus to requirements at mid-table Genoa and has since gone on to join and regularly start for one of the most dominant sides in world football, Bayern Munich. Neither of these players have undergone extraordinary growth since leaving Italy, nor were they world beaters being misused. They are functional professionals given a clear role by their coach that suits their strengths and hides their weaknesses. Montolivo is an extremely similar player to Carrick, a man who played three Champions League finals in five years and a player who United have still not sufficiently replaced with all of their hundreds of millions of euros. Modric, Xabi Alonso, Schweinsteiger and Kroos have all fulfilled comparable roles in their teams and are amongst the best in their positions. You'll find that their assist numbers are largely inflated by their set piece deliveries rather than their contributions in open play, which tends to reflect more on the team and their set piece coaching than the ability of any one player. What is most important however is that they are given restricted roles in the final third. They contribute, no doubt, but they each benefit from the presence of highly dominant individuals on the flanks and either one or two highly mobile attacking midfielders who drift between the lines of defence and midfield.

It is this combination that has helped to craft the most potent attacking forces in modern football. No successful attacking team has only one creative reference point in their midfield. Most have at least three or more options in their squad, in addition to the creative threats housed in attack. What Montolivo gives us is a base from which to launch. He is best used as the first player to receive the ball out of defence but he needs ideally a mobile midfielder capable of holding the ball under pressure and either a creative wide player or trequartista depending upon the formation Sinisa chooses.

As for the captaincy issue, exactly who would people like to hand the armband to? Muntari? Shuffling the armband achieves nothing. Great sides have multiple leaders, players who enforce themselves on a game no matter what and who are never bystanders. Gattuso was never a permanent captain but he acted like one on the pitch alongside the more publicly diplomatic Ambrosini. Vidal and Tevez will never captain Juventus but they are leaders. We can't just have one leader with an armband, it will never be enough. The armband itself is meaningless when it comes to playing football. Nesta hated to ever touch it for us but it didn't stop him from being a tremendous leader. These arguments, scapegoating some of our best players, are ironically typical of the short sighted idea of management that has led our club into its current trouble. We should be strengthening our spine right now not ripping it out. Focus on the real deadwood and save your breath.


The Hit List 2015 71198-jeremiah-johnson-light-saber-g-14Wm

I can't possibly agree more. SO many good points worthy of note and being spot on. And in any case , it was never Montolivo's main responsibility to assist heavily and never will be. Not the type , nor the role to be first in assists , rather contribute within a working team like Dosto said. And in any case , in his first season , which so far has been our only proper season with him before the circus begun , he was excellent and did assist enough , especially when i consider he played half a season with Muntari and Flamini , i mean for crying out loud . He was a proper hero ffs rofl

Anyway , 10/10 post , wish fans in general stop being this harsh on him. He's our only legit creative option as things stand and he would only be more effective with a good midfield and generaly a real team around him, if anything. I won't even bother about the captain stuff anymore , i really do not get these arguments.


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Post by Dante Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:11 pm

dostoevsky wrote:As for De Sciglio, I don't understand how people can at the same time complain about our management but want to sell De Sciglio and purchase Darmian. Please tell me that you at least appreciate the irony.

Right now, there is absolutely nothing to gain from selling MDS. If he were a starter, I could understand the argument that he's a liability but he's not even in our first eleven right now. What do we gain from selling a young player, with huge potential to grow, who covers multiple positions and who is essentially just a depth player right now? Antonelli is our starting left back right now, no questions asked, so why the fuss? De Sciglio has a chance to grow again after Inzaghi's sacking and to learn from a real coach but he will need to compete for time against an experienced fullback who has proven his worth in the league. What better situation could we hope for and you want to sell him? No one even blinked when Darmian left, just how much do you think someone like Torino will fetch for De Sciglio in four years? We weep that Inzaghi didn't play a bunch of teenagers no one here has seen play for more than two minutes during the season but we're baying for the blood of our only young defender. Playing at the back requires more experience than any position in football. We don't need to sell De Sciglio, we need to readjust our expectations for the poor lad and let him compete for time. He'll have chances throughout the season and if he doesn't take them he'll stay on the bench. That's the reality for every young player. Despite all the clamour around Bee and Galliani's new treasure chest we are not in the position to go out and buy shiny new toys all over the pitch. We need to identify those who are still useful and spend our money wisely, not waste time juggling fullbacks, the one area of the pitch where we actually have relative quality and depth.


lmaoo rofl

and please stop making so much sense , jimmies will be rustled i am afraid

Woe to us all if we begun selling our most promising youngsters at the first real troubles. And to gain what ? yeah.. nothing really. Even the money would be spent on some scrublord from Serie A Midtable Land . Or maybe get Darmian and in 4 years , make dream lineups with De Sciglio again.

rofl

I especially agree about the part where some have seen just a few minutes of a youngster and are willing to sell SES or MDS because of their misfortunes so far . As if everything else goes so perfect , and our only major problems right are MDS ( or SES )

rofl
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Post by Kaladin Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:27 pm

I don't think anyone really believes we should sell MDS and Monty bar Jesp
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Post by Dante Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:32 pm

El Shaarawy wrote:I don't think anyone really believes we should sell MDS and Monty bar Jesp


you would be surprised how many fans out there think the same about the two players and i am pretty certain even here there a few who wouldn't mind seeing Montolivo or De Sciglio sold.

I mean , opinions , ok. But i still fail to make any sense whatsoever about it. Selling our most creative player in midfield (for the moment at least), or one of our best youngsters , with all the fodder around. Just no .

but yeah , obviously most of us do not agree with this .
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Post by M99 Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:28 pm

@dostoevsky

RealGunner wrote:
not enough proud emoticons on the internet for this post
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Post by Forza Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:00 pm

As for the captaincy issue, exactly who would people like to hand the armband to? Muntari? Shuffling the armband achieves nothing. Great sides have multiple leaders, players who enforce themselves on a game no matter what and who are never bystanders. Gattuso was never a permanent captain but he acted like one on the pitch alongside the more publicly diplomatic Ambrosini. Vidal and Tevez will never captain Juventus but they are leaders. We can't just have one leader with an armband, it will never be enough. The armband itself is meaningless when it comes to playing football. Nesta hated to ever touch it for us but it didn't stop him from being a tremendous leader. These arguments, scapegoating some of our best players, are ironically typical of the short sighted idea of management that has led our club into its current trouble. We should be strengthening our spine right now not ripping it out. Focus on the real deadwood and save your breath.

Some clarification and illumination:

On Monty's sale ~
There is no reason to sell Montolivo. He's still a very valuable player for our club.

On Monty's captaincy ~
We should have an open discussion about changing Montolivo's role in the team. I think that Montolivo doesn't spend enough time out on the field and I do fear that his best playing days may be behind him, although I hope not. This is a good time for renovation.

Montolivo is injury-prone. His injuries not only take him off the field, but also cause him to play poorly upon his return. He was awful this season.

More of a concern is that Montolivo was also quite poor the season before and inconsistent in the season before that. When we made third place, he ranged from the dominant passmaster to the aloof wanderer week-in, week-out. Let's not pretend that the statistics are telling a different story to what we all saw on the field. As an anecdotal aside, when is the last time you can remember Monty playing one of his trademark mid-range, lofted diagonal balls over the defence to a striker making a cutting run in behind the wing-back? ... ... ... I can't either. I miss those days.

Provided that high-quality reinforcements are bought in the transfer window, it will be difficult for Montolivo to claim a starting place if his poor form continues next season. At the moment, Montolivo is one of our best midfield options purely because the rest of our midfielders are utter garbage. If better players are bought, Monty may well move down the pecking order. That's the reality of the situation.

What does weigh in favour of Montolivo's retention of the armband is the lack of an obvious choice to take over as captain at this stage. Nevertheless, it is only prudent to turn our minds to the above factors when thinking about how this team manages the long-awaited re-build in the coming months. It's not a question of making a decision right now, it's just something to think about.

~~~

A side-note on statistics:

What I think I need to comment on is the blatantly obvious:

1. It is vital to the success of any football club that assists are made.

2. Milan have not generated enough assists in the post-Ibra era.

3. Making assists is part of our midfield's responsibility.

4. Montolivo has been the key creative player our midfield for the past 3 seasons.

These are incontrovertible facts. Hence, there is no reason for Montolivo to be exonerated from blame.

Our assist-making statistics have been dismal compared to our competition. All of our players, even our favourites (as much as I'd like to blame it all on Muntari), need to take responsibility for this shortcoming.

In order for Milan to move forward, this issue must be addressed as a priority.
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:47 am

To say that Montolivo was inconsistent in his first season is simply a case of rewriting history, he delivered quality performances time and time again throughout our charge to the CL.

As for the last time Montolivo launched such a ball, when was the last time that run was being made on a regular basis? It doesn't care you put in midfield, you can't pass to nice ideas, you have to pass to players. We talk about the ability of our "midfield" to create as if the three players we put in the centre of the pitch are somehow a separate entity to the rest of the side. The ability of our midfielders on the ball is just one facet of "creativity." What they and the rest of the side does off the ball is just as important, if not more so. After all, a player spends around 95% of the game off the ball. How a player moves to receive the ball then where he moves after offloading determines just how a side can play. Under Inzaghi, we have the worst off the ball movement in the league. When Ibrahimovic used to drop deep, there would be a circulation of movement, with Nocerino, Boateng etc given freedom to roam forward into the space he vacated. When Menez drops deep, how often do you see someone moving to make a run in behind through the centre? Or the run you described from Honda, coming off the wing in behind the back four? When Menez was out for the last four games we saw some attempt to rectify this with Poli and Van Ginkel being given greater freedom to make runs ahead of the ball and Bonaventura and Honda coming inside to support Destro when the ball was on the other flank however our off the ball movement is still pitiful. It's not the product of any single player and it has precious little even to do with their quality. As I stated in my earlier post, it's an issue with the structure of the entire team and even Barcelona's midfield were made to look average by Bayern, in part due to these weaknesses. It's fundamentally the coach's fault, as even sides that are average from a technical perspective can still play in an adventurous fashion. To bring it to life however you need to marry movements that help a side control space and the ball with players who possess a high technical level in order to consistently execute these plays. To this end, we need to bring in ideally two extra players suited to playing such football on a high level.

Between points 3 and 4 you seem to have come to the conclusion that Montolivo is not simply our key midfielder but our entire midfield. Replacing Monty with Zidane would do precious little if nothing else changes. Whilst I'm happy to "reevaluate" his position if we happen to bring in two or three world class players, we're not in any position to attract these talents. What we should be doing is strengthening the side by finding players who can complement Montolivo's skill set. If we bring in one creative reinforcement and surround him with grunt men, we're simply going to end up with the same complaints as are being levelled at Riccardo.

We have an issue with creating chances, no one disagrees with that. It's also worth looking at the sides who are well known for scoring goals. Disregarding the importance in the modern game of having prominent wide players, let's simply look at these sides. You'll see that not a single elite team in the world relies on simply one "creative" reference in their squad who spends time regularly in the middle.

Bayern: Thiago, Goetze, Mueller, Schweinsteiger
Madrid: James, Modric, Kroos, Isco
Barcelona: Iniesta, Rakitic, Xavi, Rafinha
Arsenal: Oezil, Cazorla, Sanchez, Ramsey

City have only two - Silva and Toure - and have struggled immensely in Europe, though this is also a product of their lack of productive players on the flanks. Roma have only Pjanic and struggled in the second half of the season when pairing him with BOTH Keita and De Rossi or even Nainggolan, looking much better on the rare occasion Ljajic was pushed deeper.

It's partly talent but at the end of the day, there are sides out there who don't have anywhere near our "talent" on paper who have a far easier time crafting chances. We need reinforcements to get to a very high level but even with modest arrivals there is no excuse for our struggles, with or without Montolivo.
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Post by Forza Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:05 am

If you carve the fat off the bone of this debate, I think we're left with this:

The midfield, and Montolivo in particular, are not solely responsible for our lack of chance creation. However, surely you can't deny that Montolivo is at least partially responsible for this problem?
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:41 pm

Of course he's partially responsible for the woes of our team, there's not a person affiliated with Milan who isn't. The difference however is that some members of our team are only problems whilst some are part of a possible solution. If he can return to full fitness then I've no doubt we'll see Montolivo return to his previous level of influence however should his injury troubles continue then we will certainly need an alternative.

Also to return to the concept of this thread at large, it's sad to say but the Hit List excludes numerous loan players who will sadly be returning to Milan.

We still own Didac for instance. rofl
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Post by Dante Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:34 pm

If you want to see Montolivo play at his best again , then he simply has to play in front of the defence . Place Montolivo in front of the defence and couple him with another two creative midfielders , such as , say Moutinho and Modric and maybe with a 10 in front of them such as Kevin De Bruyne (*examples*) , 2 fullbacks who understand the meaning of overlap and transition and generally fullbacks with good off the ball movement and obviously a CF who will take advantage of through balls , low or high ..

Then you would see Montolivo being the player we all were happy to have in our team once again . And more than that , the Montolivo who was one of Serie A best midfielders in his best seasons . All of them had him in front of the defence and i mean every single one of them , whether that was solo , or in a pivot. He was the regista , and he remains a regista.  

I've said this already many times over , won't go at it again , but Montolivo is already 30 , coming off some pretty hard injuries. If you expect him to be like he was in 12-13... not sure that's going to happen anymore. And in any case , his best game always was when he was playing in front of the defence. That's where his A-game comes from , that's what he's good at , that's where he made a name for himself and that's where he has said he preffers to play. The fact that he's versatile and used to be dynamic in his transitions doesn't make him anything else other than a versatile midfielder. Either put him in front of the defence , or he's going to have difficulties and Milan is also going to have difficulties on that front. I don't care if De Jong would leave because of it , or if he would be benched , or if this means they play in a pivot in 4-2-3-1.

We all want to see Montolivo being legit once again ? He must play in front of the defence , once again.

In any case , Montolivo is a player who will rely on the movement of everybody else on the pitch , since he has the vision and the quality to support them almost wherever they are. And like Dosto greatly analysed , we are of the worst when it comes to it . Creative ideas spark mostly from the midfield , but as important as it is to have the midfielders than can have those ideas and make them into motion , it's just as important to have the players surrounding them being able to benefit from those .

And frankly , Inzaghi failed to improve the team and the players we had are all a dysfanctional bunch really , not necessarily all of thems scrubs or mediocre , but they aren't a team at all. So , seeing the greater picture here , to say a devastated from injuries Montolivo has been one of our biggest concerns with regards to creativity is wrong , i simply disagree . I especially like what Dosto said , more part of the solution than anything else really.

Sure he wasn't perfect either , he has had his blunders and he has been off form for a while now. Definitely played his part in our bad games and our failures overall. But that's the collective that's majorly at fault no matter how you look at it. In the end , Montolivo hasn't been the same because of mainly injuries , but also because we haven't been using him correctly for a long time now. I sincerely hope Mihajlovic can rectify this and make him have a smooth return into things , elsewise you never really know how he will be doing as a CM next season . I know i would like more dynamic midfielders at CM and more quality in front of the defence than De Jong , it's pretty obvious what actually has to be done.

And seeing as we talk about midfielders , i am all in for buying Van Ginkel , if he would like to play for Milan permanently . He really became better and better in the 2nd half of the season and i doubt he will suddenly become a starter at Chelsea .

From our current midfielders , i would only keep Montolivo and Bonaventura at all costs really . All the rest can go as far as i am concerned . Honda deserves to stay and De Jong as well , but i don't think they are what we need to reach the CL places again , unless they want to be part of the bench , then they should stay .

We will be playing 4-1-2-1-2 next season and it's quite uncertain if Honda will be a regular and if De Jong can actually be a pseudo-Gattuso next to Montolivo. If we do it again vice-verca , De Jong DM and Montolivo CM , lol , we are doomed. Ancelotti really knew the truth of this , always far ahead of his time. This has already failed , so i don't know what else Mihajlovic would expect by resuming it , but i have hope he undestands the situation and finally fix it . If they want to rotate and welcome competition , then i would gladly keep them. The rest are subject to go really and even if they don't they are going be benchwarmers anyway .

Something last , i wouldn't say Poli deserves to be on the hitlist , but by all means he ain't going to be a regular for Milan by what he has shown . Although i like him and how he gives everything on the pitch . He lacks the quality though and sucks near the box most of the time. He's rotation material at best , so by all means he should stay , but as definitive back up option and nothing more. And play as far away from the box as possible too , he lacks the composure to do things near the box and he has proved that beyond second thoughts and doubts.
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Post by dostoevsky Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:54 am

I would say Poli is surviving purely because of a numbers game at the moment. With De Jong's renewal unsure and Van Ginkel's future on loan uncertain, Poli's the only midfielder have aside from Montolivo that can be called ours for next season. For that reason alone we can't even entertain the thought of selling him. In former years though, he would have been considered a disappointment and moved along. His first season under Allegri was promising however he's regressed badly under Inzaghi. Perhaps Mihjalovic will be able to revive him or at least get him fit, the man looks like he just finished a marathon before he even steps on the pitch. I think the 4-3-1-2 will probably suit him better than what we've tried previously however in an ideal world, we'd be going into next season with Poli as no more than a reserve. I'd say the same of Bonaventura as well, though I'm far more happy with his performances but I think we'd be better off having him as a very capable option who can cover several roles, most often at LCM which I think is his best position, rather than a permanent starter.
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Post by Dante Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:28 pm

I may have some good news . Maybe .

There are strong rumours here in Greece that Olympiacos is interested in Mexes . His name was floating around since the start of the summer or so , but i read a report today indicating Olympiacos has already made him an offer of 2 years with wages that could go up to 3m euros .

I do not know if this is true.. sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't . Report also indicates Olympiacos is realisticaly optimistic about getting the player , but they already have alternatives in case he rejects the offer. Finally , it said he's on top of their list . And truth be told , he would be a beast in Olympiacos .

What is almost certain is that Olympiacos has already made an offer to the player . So , with Milan yet to renew his contract , on July 1 Mexes will be a free agent . I don't see Milan offering more than 1.5 / 1.8m a year . Olympiacos , at least reportedly , will offer him more than that , it says it could be as high as 3m (lol)

The thing is , Olympiacos usually pays good money for their top 5 players . It's certainly possible they would pay him something like 2.5m and 500.000 in bonuses , say if they manage to get into the 16 of the CL / win the league.

Whatever the case , i'd say there's at least a 50-50% chance Mexes may be written off the hit list . If the offer reported is correct , i'd say it's almost certain , but you never know. It may as well be Mexes wants to stay at Milan for less , we will know in a few days , but i honestly believe it's time to leave Milan . He could help us for a year or two more as a backup option , but there are others who could do that as well.

Mexes should go somewhere where they will value him , he will love it at Olympiacos really. Fans there love their thugs and lunatics , i bet my balls Mexes will have the time of his life if he goes there rofl
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