Champions League: Semi Final Discussion

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Post by Valkyrja Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:58 am

Do you really call Sevilla a rival for Madrid and Barca ?

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Post by Footyfan Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:59 pm

izzy wrote:
Footyfan wrote:That is done by every club. Madrid bought Isco from Malaga, Ramos from Sevilla. Barca bought Rakitic and Alves from Sevilla. United bought RVP from Arsenal, Rooney from Everton. City bought Nasri from Arsenal, Clichy as well. The list is endless. Chelsea bought Meireles, Demba Ba & Ashley Cole. Every club does the same.

In the BL Bayern have no long term rival because of poor management of other clubs and sound management of Bayern over the years leading to huge resources of Bayern over the years. So that gives us naturally a good market over the years to buy from.

Also look @ Bayern's buys from Dortmund ->

Goetze - 37M  - Had a release clause, childhood Bayern fan, slept in Bayern clubs, is a Bavarian. If you put stupid clauses, we will activate them

Lewa - Came as a Free Transfer. Life long Bayern fan, his late father was a huge Bayern fan and Lewa dedicates his Bayern goals to him. He actually wanted to stay @ Bayern but was lowballed with very poor offers and was said a Pole can't be the highest paid player in the club.

Now the thing is Dortmund bought Auba & Miki with the 37M we gave for Goetze who flopped(maybe Auba scores well and is decent). Talk about bad decisions.

I think the grudge of some posters is the sheer hypocrisy that they cant buy BL players cheaply. Dortmund were forced to sell Sahin for 8M, Kagawa for 12M odd when they had 1 Year on their contracts.

Now those were low ball buys. Both years they lost players & Bayern never approached them. This is what fans want, to low ball and buy players from BL Clubs as it is meant to be a feeder league for La Liga/EPL.

BTW you can't force someone to sell. Its consensual. You blame the clubs for selling and not the buyers. If we had not bought Lewa or Goetze they would be 100% in City or Madrid now weaking the BL by loosing out such fantastic players.

.


rofl

So, in other words, Bayern are doing the BL a favor, while the other teams in the EPL and La Liga are just hoarding........

Ok then............

I am not saying that. I don't see Bayern buying Dortmund players as a charity. Why on earth should Bayern not buy Absolute top players from Dortmund who want to come to Bayern and in a position and player profile which Bayern so desperately wants. It is not our obligation to see Dortmund prosper as the expense of Bayern just like it is now Barca's obligation for Madrid.

If tomorrow Modric had a 30M Release clause and desperately wanted to come to Barca @ moderate wages, then would Barca reject it. Or similarly Neymar for free, would Madrid reject it? It makes no sense if you cant hold your flock together.

Kagawa & Sahin left BL & now we can expect a mass exodus with Reus, Hummels leaving BL.

I would rather have these stars in the BL and force teams like Dortmund, Wolfsburg to compete much more fiercely, productively and intelligently to match that super high level of Bayern rather than leave BL. What good did Vidal leaving to Juventus for 10M do to the BL? I would rather have him @ Bayern, or even if not @ Dortmund, atleast to a team which can try to hold its own like Dortmund.

@ Bayern our goal is to succeed and not harm ourselves to protect others. I feel on the long terms other BL clubs like Dortmund, Schalke need 5 years of good management, a top coach, and a Preisdent with a big set of Ba**s to come up to Bayern's level. If they cant they will end up loosing players, either to Bayern or outside of the BL.

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Post by Doc Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:02 pm

FWIW, Sevilla and Malaga are not rivals to Real Madrid in any capacity. Barcelona, Osasuna, Atletico, Athletic, Rayo to some extent would be ones that are considered rivals with regards to Real Madrid.

Also, Fraudball Proud Sugars (Surag) getting back form nicely.
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Post by futbol Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:02 pm

S wrote:
Fußball wrote:
S wrote:


Fraudball wouldnt mind Madrid winning the CL ,that is why.Spanish/La Liga fanboy posing as a Barca fan :coffee:

I remember when i didnt get the exact clarity on which club he was supporting and for months except  that he vehemently defended all things involving Spain.Wont be deceived by his Mehdrid trolling tbh :coffee:

Wat? When did that ever happen? Laughing Alzheimer's is one hell of a disease.


I'm sure you signed up in early/mid 2012 and at the time,i got the impression that you were a Spain/La Liga fanboy   than a Barca supporter.
I was more even shocked when i got to know that you were German.A German being such an ardent Spain fan is like unheard of tbh.You really must be hating the Bundesliga then hmm


I signed up END of 2012 (end of November) as you can see below my username. The reason I was a Spain national team fan was because Spain consisted basically of Barca and 2 other players. Laughing And since I'm more interested in club than intl. football it kinda felt weird to root against Pique, Puyol, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Pedro in the same lineup so I rooted for them unless Germany played against Spain. Spain and Germany don't have any sort of historic rivalry anyway similar to say Germany-Italy or Brazil-Argentina so I don't know why that would be unheard of. You see Englishmen supporting Argentina just because of Messi even though England-Argentina actually have bad history.

I don't particularly like Bundesliga despite being German, that is true. I started watching club football when Bundesliga was more or less irrelevant (more than it is now). I don't like the quality of the football (even though it's improving in the last 2 or 3 years). I don't like Bayern monopolizing all talents while deliberately weakening the rest of the league (they traditionally do this, not just with Dortmund in recent times). I don't like Bayern being the only meaningful club in the league and everyone being content with it. I don't like this cringy "Der Klassiker" immitation attempt of the Clasico when Dortmund play Bayern even though the rivalry between the 2 clubs dates back to 2011 at most. I don't like this German solidarity thing where 18 club supporters right now all root for Bayern in the Champions League. Imagine Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool fans rooting for United in the CL. Laughing They don't. Why? Because there is proper football competition going on in the Premier League as it should be in football. That doesn't exist in Bundesliga. Bundesliga could be renamed "Bayern's Training Ground and Feeder League" and it wouldn't make a difference. Similarly I don't understand the merry go round in Italy where coaches and players have no issues going from Milan to Inter to Juve and many rival fans (even though not as bad as in Germany) root for Juve for the coefficients. Laughing

I don't know how I gave the impression that I wouldn't support Barca and sympathise with Mehdrid though. If at all the sole reason I supported Spain was because of Barca. Laughing

That should clarify things for you. Also thanks for Pogba. :coffee:

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Post by Footyfan Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:05 pm

Valkyrja wrote:Do you really call Sevilla a rival for Madrid and Barca ?

Nope they are not. Just like neither Dortmund not Leverkusen, etc are currently long term rivals of Bayern. The BL is unpredictable and every 1-2 years you can have a strong challenger for Bayern till they fade. Until they can run a club professionally for 10 years and earn 300-350M Revenue for 3-4 years, they have no hope of challenging Bayern long term.

They will serve either a feeder club to Bayern or to other leagues abroad like Sevilla is to Madrid/Barca.

Atleast Italian clubs have a stronger management. They quote 50-60M for top talents while BL club put 10-20-30M Release Clauses. De Bruyne would have been sold 75-80M if he was in any other league, now he will go for probably 45M odd. Can you imagine Max Kruse has(according to rumours)a release clause of around 10M.

Why try to buy Pogba or Dybala when you can get Kruse or De Bruyne for half or 1/3rd the price,who have played in BL, know German and will probably adapt much faster

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Post by izzy Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:18 pm

Footyfan wrote:I am not saying that. I don't see Bayern buying Dortmund players as a charity. Why on earth should Bayern not buy Absolute top players from Dortmund who want to come to Bayern and in a position and player profile which Bayern so desperately wants. It is not our obligation to see Dortmund prosper as the expense of Bayern just like it is now Barca's obligation for Madrid.

If tomorrow Modric had a 30M Release clause and desperately wanted to come to Barca @ moderate wages, then would Barca reject it. Or similarly Neymar for free, would Madrid reject it? It makes no sense if you cant hold your flock together.

Kagawa & Sahin left BL & now we can expect a mass exodus with Reus, Hummels leaving BL.

I would rather have these stars in the BL and force teams like Dortmund, Wolfsburg to compete much more fiercely, productively and intelligently to match that super high level of Bayern rather than leave BL. What good did Vidal leaving to Juventus for 10M do to the BL? I would rather have him @ Bayern, or even if not @ Dortmund, atleast to a team which can try to hold its own like Dortmund.

@ Bayern our goal is to succeed and not harm ourselves to protect others. I feel on the long terms other BL clubs like Dortmund, Schalke need 5 years of good management, a top coach, and a Preisdent with a big set of Ba**s to come up to Bayern's level. If they cant they will end up loosing players, either to Bayern or outside of the BL.


Ok, I don't really care how Bayern go about their business, I've never criticized them for it and I probably never will.

The players have to agree to join them and that is what Lucio, Ballack, Lewandowski, Klose, Ze Roberto, etc. It's a two way street. Bayern are just doing what they need to do to maintain their status as the best, fair play to them.

I just don't want to hear how they are doing this as some favor to other BL clubs and the league as a whole. They clearly aren't. That needs to stop.
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Post by S Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:33 pm

Fußball wrote:
S wrote:
Fußball wrote:

Wat? When did that ever happen? Laughing Alzheimer's is one hell of a disease.


I'm sure you signed up in early/mid 2012 and at the time,i got the impression that you were a Spain/La Liga fanboy   than a Barca supporter.
I was more even shocked when i got to know that you were German.A German being such an ardent Spain fan is like unheard of tbh.You really must be hating the Bundesliga then hmm


I signed up END of 2012 (end of November) as you can see below my username. The reason I was a Spain national team fan was because Spain consisted basically of Barca and 2 other players. Laughing And since I'm more interested in club than intl. football it kinda felt weird to root against Pique, Puyol, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Pedro in the same lineup so I rooted for them unless Germany played against Spain. Spain and Germany don't have any sort of historic rivalry anyway similar to say Germany-Italy or Brazil-Argentina so I don't know why that would be unheard of. You see Englishmen supporting Argentina just because of Messi even though England-Argentina actually have bad history.

I don't particularly like Bundesliga despite being German, that is true. I started watching club football when Bundesliga was more or less irrelevant (more than it is now). I don't like the quality of the football (even though it's improving in the last 2 or 3 years). I don't like Bayern monopolizing all talents while deliberately weakening the rest of the league (they traditionally do this, not just with Dortmund in recent times). I don't like Bayern being the only meaningful club in the league and everyone being content with it. I don't like this cringy "Der Klassiker" immitation attempt of the Clasico when Dortmund play Bayern even though the rivalry between the 2 clubs dates back to 2011 at most. I don't like this German solidarity thing where 18 club supporters right now all root for Bayern in the Champions League. Imagine Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool fans rooting for United in the CL. Laughing They don't. Why? Because there is proper football competition going on in the Premier League as it should be in football. That doesn't exist in Bundesliga. Bundesliga could be renamed "Bayern's Training Ground and Feeder League" and it wouldn't make a difference. Similarly I don't understand the merry go round in Italy where coaches and players have no issues going from Milan to Inter to Juve and many rival fans (even though not as bad as in Germany) root for Juve for the coefficients. Laughing

I don't know how I gave the impression that I wouldn't support Barca and sympathise with Mehdrid though. If at all the sole reason I supported Spain was because of Barca. Laughing

That should clarify things for you. Also thanks for Pogba. :coffee:


This is your second account buddy.I think for some technical reasons you couldnt use your first account.I'm 100% sure you were there during the Euros or somewhere around that time.Dont fool the GL historian :coffee:

A German being a Spain fan probably may not be unheard of but i still kind of find it weird to support another NT while Germany itself has a strong NT.Although nothing wrong with your reasoning.

Thanks for the clarification on the Bundesliga.I would assume your dislike towards BL compelled you to support a foreign club .I may be looking at a rather small sample size here but i'd think you belong in a minority of those German fans who support non-German clubs.Or maybe the trend has changed now,i am not sure.

I dint necessarily brand you as Mehdrid sympathizer but at the time i felt you were too pro-Spain/La Liga while having debates with various posters.And i have seen quite a few such kind of fans tbh who'd prefer Spanish teams prevailing over other countries.Turns out you are not exactly one among them but i wont be too sure though :coffee:





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Post by Footyfan Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:38 pm

izzy wrote:
Footyfan wrote:I am not saying that. I don't see Bayern buying Dortmund players as a charity. Why on earth should Bayern not buy Absolute top players from Dortmund who want to come to Bayern and in a position and player profile which Bayern so desperately wants. It is not our obligation to see Dortmund prosper as the expense of Bayern just like it is now Barca's obligation for Madrid.

If tomorrow Modric had a 30M Release clause and desperately wanted to come to Barca @ moderate wages, then would Barca reject it. Or similarly Neymar for free, would Madrid reject it? It makes no sense if you cant hold your flock together.

Kagawa & Sahin left BL & now we can expect a mass exodus with Reus, Hummels leaving BL.

I would rather have these stars in the BL and force teams like Dortmund, Wolfsburg to compete much more fiercely, productively and intelligently to match that super high level of Bayern rather than leave BL. What good did Vidal leaving to Juventus for 10M do to the BL? I would rather have him @ Bayern, or even if not @ Dortmund, atleast to a team which can try to hold its own like Dortmund.

@ Bayern our goal is to succeed and not harm ourselves to protect others. I feel on the long terms other BL clubs like Dortmund, Schalke need 5 years of good management, a top coach, and a Preisdent with a big set of Ba**s to come up to Bayern's level. If they cant they will end up loosing players, either to Bayern or outside of the BL.


Ok, I don't really care how Bayern go about their business, I've never criticized them for it and I probably never will.

The players have to agree to join them and that is what Lucio, Ballack, Lewandowski, Klose, Ze Roberto, etc. It's a two way street. Bayern are just doing what they need to do to maintain their status as the best, fair play to them.

I just don't want to hear how they are doing this as some favor to other BL clubs and the league as a whole. They clearly aren't. That needs to stop.


Well I don't think Dortmund or Gladbach, etc would benefit on the short term by loosing this players.

Loosing top players in BL abroad on the long terms hurts the league though . My opinion as a personal fan if I would rather see Goetze playing in the BL than say play for City in the EPL. Bayern , however , are doing what they have to, in-order to strengthen themselves, I doubt they care much about being the savior of BL

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:45 pm

S wrote:
Kick wrote:UEFA will set up a Classico final.

It'll be:

Barca v Bayern

Juve v Real

No way will Real beat Buyern but Barca could well do it.

Which is a good thing.I dont want to see another all La Liga clash after already having seen one in the Quarters.I mean,potentially,a one off El-Clasico with higher stakes is waaaay better than a two legged tie.


Yeah, I agree. From a neutral's perspective single league finals suck. Much less drama.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:46 pm

I'd rather not see them at all tbh.
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Post by RED Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:43 pm

Just wanna see some good matches. Don't care who goes through or who wins it. Just some entertaining matches, the last 8 was poor apart from Porto's surprise win in the 1st leg.
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Post by rwo power Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:35 pm

Footyfan wrote:Well I don't think Dortmund or Gladbach, etc would benefit on the short term by loosing this players.
It was Dortmund who took Marco Reus from Gladbach, Barcelona who took MAtS from them and Schalke who took Roman Neustädter away. Bayern "only" grabbed Dante. (Gladbach on the other hand usually consider Basel their self-service shop - with Fabian Schär likely the next one en route to the lower Rhine.)


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Post by Glory Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:37 pm

Want a Barca Bayern final. Both are looking red hot right now and so could be epic, such a match. Real not so much so far. No offense to Real fans. So yea Thats the only sort of... you know.. wish.
Voted for an el classico semi to add extra spice to the CL. Cool
And btw will Real's absentee's be back before the match ?

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Post by Lord Spencer Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:46 pm

Fußball wrote:
S wrote:
Fußball wrote:

Wat? When did that ever happen? Laughing Alzheimer's is one hell of a disease.


I'm sure you signed up in early/mid 2012 and at the time,i got the impression that you were a Spain/La Liga fanboy   than a Barca supporter.
I was more even shocked when i got to know that you were German.A German being such an ardent Spain fan is like unheard of tbh.You really must be hating the Bundesliga then hmm


I signed up END of 2012 (end of November) as you can see below my username. The reason I was a Spain national team fan was because Spain consisted basically of Barca and 2 other players. Laughing And since I'm more interested in club than intl. football it kinda felt weird to root against Pique, Puyol, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Pedro in the same lineup so I rooted for them unless Germany played against Spain. Spain and Germany don't have any sort of historic rivalry anyway similar to say Germany-Italy or Brazil-Argentina so I don't know why that would be unheard of. You see Englishmen supporting Argentina just because of Messi even though England-Argentina actually have bad history.

I don't particularly like Bundesliga despite being German, that is true. I started watching club football when Bundesliga was more or less irrelevant (more than it is now). I don't like the quality of the football (even though it's improving in the last 2 or 3 years). I don't like Bayern monopolizing all talents while deliberately weakening the rest of the league (they traditionally do this, not just with Dortmund in recent times). I don't like Bayern being the only meaningful club in the league and everyone being content with it. I don't like this cringy "Der Klassiker" immitation attempt of the Clasico when Dortmund play Bayern even though the rivalry between the 2 clubs dates back to 2011 at most. I don't like this German solidarity thing where 18 club supporters right now all root for Bayern in the Champions League. Imagine Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool fans rooting for United in the CL. Laughing They don't. Why? Because there is proper football competition going on in the Premier League as it should be in football. That doesn't exist in Bundesliga. Bundesliga could be renamed "Bayern's Training Ground and Feeder League" and it wouldn't make a difference. Similarly I don't understand the merry go round in Italy where coaches and players have no issues going from Milan to Inter to Juve and many rival fans (even though not as bad as in Germany) root for Juve for the coefficients. Laughing

I don't know how I gave the impression that I wouldn't support Barca and sympathise with Mehdrid though. If at all the sole reason I supported Spain was because of Barca. Laughing

That should clarify things for you. Also thanks for Pogba. :coffee:


The Coeff points correlate directly to the quality of the league. See the BL and its increased rise for that.

As long as Serie A still has 3 CL spots only, neither Milan nor Inter would ever hope to return to past glories. So, if Juve winning the CL is going to give Milan the potential to compete again, then sure as hell I would root for them.

That being said, I prefer the EL guys pulling the weight, and once the fourth spot is back its on again.

As for the merry go round, I guess Italy believes in sharing the talent. (Pirlo is too good to play in a declining Milan side).
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:00 pm

The difference is that Germans get brought up been told that they should support Bayern in Europe because they're supposed to as Germans whereas Italians only support Juventus out of pure self interest that this may in the long run increase their chances of getting to the CL.


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Post by zizzle Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:18 pm

Why take one Barca vs Bayern game in the final when we can get two in the semis.

Plus historically speaking Juve has always been good against Madrid so a higher chance for Serie Zz champs to be in the final
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Post by Ganso Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:17 am

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Laughing
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Post by nasir6371 Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:35 am

Barca-Bayern would have a better story line.

Pep vs Barca
Barca gets another shot at Bayern after the 7:0 beat down.
Messi vs Germany part 2
Possible Classico final
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Post by M99 Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:10 am

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Post by McAgger Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:23 am

All of those kits are better than the ones that the clubs have currently.
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Post by futbol Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:52 am

Has to be the most competitive semi final in years. Can't remember the last time 3 semi-finalists were considered equal favourites to win the whole thing + another tough to beat dark horse. On paper 12/13 with Bayern, Dortmund, Mehdrid and Barca. But Mehdrid dressing room was in shambles under Mourinho at that point and Barca were coached by Jordi Roura for a third of the season. Both Spanish clubs are in "slightly" better shape right now for sure.

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Post by halamadrid2 Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:33 am

Barca, Bayern and Madrid have been in five of the last 6 semi-finals
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Post by guest_07 Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:34 am

el classico finale would be an awesome experience

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Post by futbol Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:38 am

guest_07 wrote:el classico finale would be an awesome experience


The entire losing fanbase would disappear from GL for ever. Laughing

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Post by S Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:45 am

UEFA have tried to setup a Clasico final the previous three times and all have been unsuccessful returns.

Will they get lucky this time round ?
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Post by Kick Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:58 am

I'd buy that Barca kit.
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