La Joya | Paulo Dybala #21

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Post by Warrior Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:11 pm

He seems to have morale problems, 95% sure it involves family or girlfriend.

I don't think it is related to Juve or being football pro in general. About the performance no need to worry, even when poor he isn't particularly bad, just less decisive.

Nedved is only involved because those personal issues affect our game and most probably the locker room. If he called him out in the medias it's because the managers are exhausted of him in private.

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Post by rincon Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am

There was a lot of talk of it being a gf thing. I don't pay attention to those things but apparently they split around the time this began. Also apparently they just got back.

In any case it's December and I don't care much. He is 23 and bound to have ups and downs. As long as he comes back from it soon enough we'll have forgotten about it in 6 months.

We have plenty of players that need minutes atm. Let him be benched and grow.
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Post by Luca Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:21 pm



It's such an interesting season he's having

If we focus on the good, he's been in tremendous form for the majority of it but the lows also have to be considered and they are quite clear too

Anyways, I thought this was a nice video for Cuckbala

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Post by rincon Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:12 pm

Most times I just think that our expectations on Dybala are just too high when we say he is bad a lot of times. If most other players in our team had an average Dybala performance we praise them like motm imo. Even in a season with the injury and a period of off form I would say Dybala is easily top 3 for us this season. He missed so much of the season and he is our top scorer and creator. We put a pretty huge amount of responsibility on his shoulders.
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Post by Luca Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:36 pm

I agree brother. Personally, I have very high expectations for him. He did have a great start to the season- among the best in Europe, and then he had an ice cold spell where he wave even benched for the Inter match despite being fit (surely the low point), and went scoreless through the CL group stage (with one of the worst statistical returns in terms of shots:goals).

Then this mess in the first leg with Real after being in good form again- amazing winner with Lazio, and at Tottenham

I hope he stays but if he's sold, I just hope we improve the team

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Post by Warrior Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:15 am

Some would say i am trolling yet i seriously think Dybala is perceived as "disappointing" because of how good he is in Fifa Ultimate Team Thumbs up In real life he's less of a beast, more a creator than a finisher.

Currently, Dybala's level is B+ with A- tendencies. Needs to correct his main flaw: consistency. Because if he was performing all the time like he did in last autumn, we'd be talking about a Del Piero's heir. Sadly now we are talking of someone who shits in our hands at worst time @miss penalty @sent off in Champions League

Thankfully there is a reverse side to the medal. At 24 year old he can still improve. He is a special player and that's why i want him to remain at Juve. This elegance you cannot teach it, i wish Allegri uses him with Bernardeschi. Always one spark of genius away from a goal opportunity and even on a bad day, he is never the worst player on the field. Very useful player just not as good as prime ADP, or prime Nedved, or certainly not as good as prime Messi.

Sell him and buy Martial in return ? I wouldn't see the point of it
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Post by rincon Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:24 am

Tbf I think that if Dybala stays with us for the rest of his career we are indeed talking of Del Piero's heir.

If he keeps up this pace he will be well into our record books.
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Post by Luca Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:33 am

I agree with both of you. If he stays with us for another 4+ seasons, we will look at this season not as the defining one for him but as just a chapter in the story

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Post by rincon Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:53 am

Damn Luca, that video is sexy as hell, a lot of great moments. Reignited my man crush on Dybala. I love a good trequartista.

Take me off the fence of restructuring the team and put me back on the Dybala bandwagon Molenation

Like Warrior says, now we just to get him going with Bernardeschi.
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Post by salmano9 Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:36 am

The thing I don't like about Dybala is his appearances in big games when Juve aren't doing well. You just can't count on him and he does a lot of mistakes in these games (CL final, last game vs RM). If you realise in both games he got nervous and cannot control himself, even though he played better in the last game vs RM.
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Post by S Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:39 am

@Warrior wrote:In real life he's less of a beast, more a creator than a finisher.

Not really. His strength is his finishing(and dribbling). Play him closer to goal and he will keep producing great numbers with consistency. Play him like a glorified central midfielder like we do in CL and you get insipid performances from him.

Also doesnt help that technically, our midfield is Sassuolo/Milan level.
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Post by lucianomoggi Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:44 am

Dybala should be used depending on the situation

when the opponent park the bus, Dybala cannot go for headers vs aggressive center-backs so he has to stay out of that kind of trouble

Dybala can play as an advanced forward when there is enough space for him to cause troubles, but when the opponent go too deep Dybala has to go midfielder and create chances or shoot from distance,

players like Higuain, Mandzukic, Khedira, Matuidi, are the ones who can deal with troubles inside the box switching positions with Dybala

and there is no other way to use Dybala ,

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Post by juvealbanian Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:39 pm

+1 @S

Exactly what I've been saying for quite some time now.
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Post by S Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:43 pm



Pretty much what I've been saying all along. The heat maps prove that. He's a Griezmann used like an Isco. His role completely changed from his first season(IMO his best season at Juve). His first instinct is to shoot/score than to pass/create. He should be on the receiving end of passes than be the one making them. Look how deep he has to drop to collect the ball. Use him like a pseudo-central midfielder and you'll continue getting underwhelming performances from him. Bernardeschi is a better fit than Dybala in the current setup

Higuain's signing might have just jeopardized Dybala's future at Juve. I'll be so sad to see him leave.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:14 pm

I agree with the point. That tweet proves nothing though.

His role has changed but its not shown by those heat maps. They show no significant change. In all of them he is spread out everywhere with a preference for the center right. In the first one (where he was more a striker) he is even more spread out than the last two. This is simply forcing data to fit a hypothesis, it should be the other way around.

In terms of data like these. For all the talk of role changes, Dybala takes more shots now than he did in his first or second seasons. He has more goals. He has more passes per game. Better passing accuracy. He even has more tackles and also more dribbles.

He has considerably improved most aspects of his game. From link up play to shooting. Even his freekicks are much better. Its just that he doesn't fit tactically so it seems more of a personal waste for him and us. But Juve's needs > Dybala's. If we play him at striker then he wins, and Juve loses.

Allegri has said many times that he doesn't see Dybala playing CF for a club like Juve. He is a coach that was all about playing with a diamond and two strikers, yet he doesn't do it with Dybala at Juve. Probably because we don't have the team for it.

We already played with two strikers even under Allegri but that was back in 14/15 when our midfield could support it. Now we have no mezzalas able to cover the ground to support two strikers. Khedira + whichever other clowns surround Pjanic would fail.

I agree that Bernardeschi is indeed a better fit for the current setup. Its a shame because Dybala is great and is improving, he does a lot. We'll see if he adapts more, if we adapt, or if he leaves. Had he come along 15 years ago he would have been a shoe in for every big team in football.

Having a headache situation that could net us 100+m will only last so long. It will sort itself out one way or another by next season at the latest.
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Post by Luca Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:55 pm

Having his best ever goal scoring season >>>> playing too far away from goal

nice

I think this is a classic mistake of confusing cause and effect. Perhaps he has to drop deeper to get the ball because of how poor our midfield is, whereas in his first season he had Pogba, Marchisio and a fresher Khedira. In his second season, we did switch to a double pivot but in contrast, we had an overloaded right side of Cuadrado and Dani Alves, a left side of Mandzukic and prime Alex Sandro and Higuain in fine goal scoring form, Dybala's numbers still dipped compared to his first and current season but these players create space for player's like Dybala to maneuver through the field.

I do not think his problem is a positional or even an individual one.

We line up with Asamoah and Lichtsteiner as our fullbacks. Pjanic as the only creative player in the midfield. Cuadrado and Douglas who are both equally inconsistent and Higuain who is only good when the ball is played directly to his feet and then we pass Dybala the ball and say, "hey lad, get it done for us", it's not good enough. We are hamstringing ourselves with our line ups, the injuries don't help but this isn't a Dybala problem, it's a Juventus problem.

I find it an unfair criticism. What would it matter if Dybala stayed up top near Higuain when Napoli's midfield is choking ours to death so the ball never reaches them. You either become Higuain and touch the ball a handful of times or you try to go for it and make something happen, it's hardly something I can criticize him for in the circumstances.

Our midfield is abysmal, there's no attacking trio in the world, past or present, that would mask such deficiencies

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Post by rincon Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:22 pm

@Luca wrote:
I find it an unfair criticism. What would it matter if Dybala stayed up top near Higuain when Napoli's midfield is choking ours to death so the ball never reaches them. You either become Higuain and touch the ball a handful of times or you try to go for it and make something happen, it's hardly something I can criticize him for in the circumstances.


Yes exactly^

I find asking for Dybala to be pinned up top counter productive. IMO we need more play from the mid, not less.

@Luca wrote:We line up with Asamoah and Lichtsteiner as our fullbacks. Pjanic as the only creative player in the midfield. Cuadrado and Douglas who are both equally inconsistent and Higuain who is only good when the ball is played directly to his feet and then we pass Dybala the ball and say, "hey lad, get it done for us", it's not good enough. We are hamstringing ourselves with our line ups, the injuries don't help but this isn't a Dybala problem, it's a Juventus problem.


It is a Juventus problem but I also think there is a Dybala problem in terms of how his position (trequartista) changed in football. If young Del Piero came through today, imo, we would have a similar situation. We don't need to care about Dybala's problem though, its the Juventus problem that matters.

Given the rest of our team, we can't afford 2 strikers pinned up top. Given Dybala's characteristics, he can't be the only striker. So either Dybala is good enough to warrant a bit of sacrifice from both parties, or we are better of with Bernardeschi as the playmaker given his profile (versatility, physicality, vision).
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Post by S Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:28 pm

I don't think I've said anything different. We essentially all have pretty similar points but we are not coming to a conclusion.

You were saying the other day that Dybala has had an attitude problem this year. Maybe he's just unhappy with role he's been asked to play and hence the indifferent performances. If you think it's unfair criticism on Allegri(I presume?) , it's also equally unfair on Dybala's part.

Either way one of Dybala or Allegri won't be here next season. Time will tell if getting rid of either was the right move.
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Post by Luca Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:38 pm

Everyone is accountable, I agree. Allegri isn't perfect, he just sets up our team correctly and to win 98% of the time, this Napoli game was not one of them

Did it make sense to splash 85M on Douglas and Bernardeschi in the summer, compounding this problem whereas half of those funds were probably better injected into the midfield. What did we accomplish? We relegated Mandzukic to the bench and if not for injuries to Cuadrado, Mandzukic and Bernardeschi, we would have even less harmony among our attackers.

Did we think Alex Sandro's form would fall of the earth? We were all happy to keep him, ecstatic even.

I've been very critical of Dybala because he's a top talent and its one thing to not always put in a 10/10 performance, quite normal actually, but the difference between his great games and his poor ones is far too great of a gap for a top player.

I think we need an overhaul, no one on that team should be safe, least of not, the midfield which has been abysmal. Napoli was yet another example of a team with a proper midfield that plays through them destroying us.

Dybala is a top talent, but no one is greater than the team. If he is sold, we should just hope we use the funds appropriately to improve, which we usually do well at.

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Post by rincon Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:41 pm

I wished we got some midfielders who can pass but also bring physicality (so not 1.60m tall) so that everyone can play better (so basically bench/sell/exile Khedira). I'd love to get Diawara. If Napoli sign Torreira they'll sell Jorginho or Diawara. I'd love to get either.
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Post by Luca Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:44 pm

I'd seriously go for Nico Barella

I saw a stat that he's in the top 15 in Serie A for distance covered, he has immense technique and passing range. I think he'd be a great fit, I'm just not sure if he's ready for that jump up in level

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Post by rincon Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:53 pm

@S wrote:I don't think I've said anything different. We essentially all have pretty similar points but we are not coming to a conclusion.

You were saying the other day that Dybala has had an attitude problem this year. Maybe he's just unhappy with role he's been asked to play and hence the indifferent performances. If you think it's unfair criticism on Allegri(I presume?) , it's also equally unfair on Dybala's part.

Either way one of Dybala or Allegri won't be here next season. Time will tell if getting rid of either was the right move.


I don't know if it was a reply to me or Luca. If it was to me, I'm a fan of both. In this case though, I agree with Allegri. I don't see how our team is best suited to Dybala doing other than what he currently does.

I do think criticizing Allegri's handling of Dybala is unfair. I might be wrong but I don't see better solutions with how the season went in terms of injuries and development, Allegri has been extremely flexible with tactics at Juve. Its not like he is stubborn.

That said, I usually defend Dybala here. For me this is his best season. The standards are just getting higher. We all agree to some degree that there is a "fit" issue and STILL I'd say that Dybala's only competition for player of the season is Chiellini (Chiellini 1, Dybala 2). That's how good I see him for us, we depend on him to do everything.

Dybala steps up, improves and adapts to us. That's why I don't criticize him. Its just an unfortunate situation that Dybala isn't a perfect to the current Juve. Its a shame that I don't think its either Allegri's or Dybala's fault. One is trying to find the best solutions for Juve, the other is trying his best to adapt and carry the team.

If whoever leaves I'll wish them the best of luck. It wouldn't have been anyone's fault, it will just be Marotta making a call about Juve's future and moving on.
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Post by rincon Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:04 pm

@Luca some stats you might like, or maybe you already saw it.

All in Serie A of course. Note the lack of Juve midfielders (Khedira and Matuidi cheers ).

Most distance covered
Pulgar
Badelj
Vecino
Parolo
Mandragora
Barak
Benali
Kessie
Freuler
Danzi
Cataldi
Jorginho
Bertolacci
Barella
Viviani

Most balls won (excluding defenders)
Torreira (he is #1 even including defenders)
Leiva
Barella
Magnanelli
Viviani
Allan
Mandragora
Pulgar
Bertolacci
Biglia
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Post by Luca Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:14 pm

Yeah, it just depresses me smoking

So much more difficult to utilize our strong attacking players with the midfield we are fielding and the lack of full backs don't help either

I hope Bernardeschi starts the next 4 games with Dybala, we need dynamism

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Post by S Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:17 pm

I agree no one is above Juventus. But would the team benefit if it played to Dybala's strengths as a whole and get better results ? Maybe or maybe not.  Cristiano Ronaldo has the whole team setup to get the best out of him, that's why Benzema has been a Real Madrid starter for 10 years. Is Dybala that sort of game-changer ? He has shown glimpses of it atleast. For me there's no doubt he'll be a success at Pep's Man City as a false 9 or Simeone's Atletico Madrid with Diego Costa who's the CF with the ideal characteristics to partner him up top.

But at this point, it's probably too complicated to reshuffle and readjust the team to make him play better especially under Allegri, so that leaves us with two choices. Sell and improve the overall team or get a new coach who can set up the team to get the best out of Dybala (and Higuain).

I still wish we keep him though.
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Post by Luca Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:25 pm

I actually thought that at most times we do play to Dybala's strengths. Against Madrid in the first leg, he had the freest role you could give a player at Juventus and he rewarded us with a tasteful dive and a sending off.

I find the difference between him in a 4-3-2-1, a trequartista, a second striker playing off a #9 to be marginal at best. I do think a bigger problem is the piss poor midfield and lack of attacking full backs. I'm fairly sure that most teams are not going to be overly concerned with the attacking prowess of Lichtsteiner and Asamoah, and even Higuain is far too easily marked out of games. It makes us extremely predictable going forward and as such we have to rely on the individual brilliance of Dybala, Douglas and co. which at times, is sorely lacking and makes the team not function.

It's a stark contrast from the way Napoli plays this game. I'm not saying we ought to emulate them but we can learn from a team that has 1/3 of our budget yet massacres us at our own home field. It begins and ends in the midfield for me, I know I sound like a broken record, but I have trouble judging a forward who doesn't touch the ball because it doesn't reach him for large stretches of the game and this is not a singular event like with Napoli, far too many times this season we've been thrown off our game too easily

We could run some GOAT 4-4-2 with Dybala and Higuain up top but tell me how it's different from a 4-2-3-1, it's really not. The 4-3-2-1 from last night should be adequate to see the best from Dybala, the issue is when Douglas has a poor game and 2/3 of the midfield is Matuidi and Khedira, might as well be Sturaro and Sturaro going forward

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