Copa America 2015

linetty wrote:Of course coaching is the problem. Di Maria-Aguero-Messi-Pastore-Mascherano-Banega is a one hell of a setup. Any decent manager would be rocking that CA with that squad but Martino is not even decent.

This is a joke right? That's the team we are playing, except Biglia for Banega who has flopped so far. I think the team we played against Uruguay will be our starting team and it's hard to argue that we have a better team available. As for rocking the CA we were first place in our group, they weren't convincing wins but this is a very competitive tournament.

It's more about parked buses than being competitive. Most teams are happy to lose admirably rather than go for the win, which stems from the fact that Argentina is so top heavy. The same happened in World Cup, only team that opened were Nigeria, and the goals poured in. This is fine as long as Argentina doesn't concede from the couple fluke chance's the other team conjures from parked bus position. And then there probably will be teams playing for SO, which is slightly worrying as there is no ET.

To be fair Argentina have enough attacking talent that they should be able to unlock these parked buses, especially given the relative lack of threat on the counter.

It would be a bit of a let-down though if Argentina don't win this tournament. I think most people agree they have by far the best team on paper of any team there.

Let down? Not to me. They haven't won a major senior tournament since 93 and have been disappointing hearts and minds ever since. Except the one or two or three times they made ppl believe they'll win it all then they would realise they actually can win it and go back disappointing.

If Argentina don't win it, nothing much would change.

I just mean that I think they should be the overwhelming favourites to win and it would be a disappointment for them not to given that they have by far the best team there.

El Cujo wrote:To be fair Argentina have enough attacking talent that they should be able to unlock these parked buses, especially given the relative lack of threat on the counter.

It would be a bit of a let-down though if Argentina don't win this tournament. I think most people agree they have by far the best team on paper of any team there.

That's not how football works

Very interesting thoughts about international football. Some of the points do explain the state of things but one big question comes to my mind. Yes club teams are better drilled and yes current international football is of a low standard but let's go back a few years in time and international teams weren't always this poor. What has changed in the last few years to deteriorate the standard of international football?

Some of these posts scream of Eurofaces.

Most of these games in the Copa America are going to come down to a goal here or there.  If people actually watch the games you will see even if you have the talent to unlock defenses the style of play and the way they officiate the game negates a lot of that.

Neymar has tricks for days to unlock a defense, good luck peeling himself off the ground after he tries them, Messi is the best in the world at unlocking a defense and he is getting mauled out there.

I hope some of you if you actually watch the games can finally see the difference between Euro qualifiers / Euro Tournament (Which is now a 24 team tournament) and South American qualifiers / Copa America.

Ronaldo won the Balon D'or because of his exploits against Sweden in a play in game BTW where he had all day to operate and a bunch of looks at goal.  If he's touched they call a foul.  I'm not downing Ronaldo or his achievements but he would have a melt down if he played in one of these games the way there officiated.

It's just different, not good or bad but different.  Argentina are right where they should be, and no I don't think they are overwhelming favorites to win this competition.  I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Colombia beat them.  Again, Argentina are a flawed team, they basically operate with out a midfield.

messixaviesta wrote:Very interesting thoughts about international football. Some of the points do explain the state of things but one big question comes to my mind. Yes club teams are better drilled and yes current international football is of a low standard but let's go back a few years in time and international teams weren't always this poor. What has changed in the last few years to deteriorate the standard of international football?

These teams are not poor. Again, this is how they play football in South America. It happens to be a fact that these same poor teams do very well at the world cup for the last 2 cycles.

South American teams hide there warts better than European teams and can keep the games closer by the way the games are officiated. Why do you think South American players are so good on the ball? They have to be because they have to get it and make a decision quick or get cleaned out.

Now you can see when Brazil played Germany in the world cup in a more Euro-centric officiated affair they got destroyed. That Brazil wasn't the Brazil of old and couldn't hide there warts by playing a hard nosed, play through the whistle style. They were not allowed to bully Germany and Germany's team play destroyed them not to mention when Brazil goes down it's usually not a pleasant site there emotions get the best of them, look at the Holland game the World cup before.

This is part of the reason I don't know why people can't judge Messi on a club level and stop all the non sense about international play, he took Argentina to the WC final. They practice for 9-10 months together at club level, they play all year round and the Champions League as said by SAF and MOU is the new standard of football. The most competitive tournament in the world. The most even of playing fields.

jibers wrote:

El Cujo wrote:To be fair Argentina have enough attacking talent that they should be able to unlock these parked buses, especially given the relative lack of threat on the counter.

It would be a bit of a let-down though if Argentina don't win this tournament. I think most people agree they have by far the best team on paper of any team there.

That's not how football works

Yeah because any team can just park the bus and suddenly no teams can score on them without blind luck. My bad.

El Cujo wrote:

jibers wrote:

El Cujo wrote:To be fair Argentina have enough attacking talent that they should be able to unlock these parked buses, especially given the relative lack of threat on the counter.

It would be a bit of a let-down though if Argentina don't win this tournament. I think most people agree they have by far the best team on paper of any team there.

That's not how football works

Yeah because any team can just park the bus and suddenly no teams can score on them without blind luck. My bad.

Not your bad. You just don't understand the ge game at all. understandable. So because they have attacking players, and by that we mean strikers they will do well against a block of 4 lines?

Stick to FM son.

i don't believe in this whole "you need a coach with euro experience" or "you need a manager who has coached top sides" (by the way tata martino does have a year of euro experience). look at the coaches who have won international competitions, how many of them actually coached top level clubs? del bosque, lippi, who else? scolari never coached in europe before winning the world cup or coaching protugal to a euro final, he had only coached in brazil and the middle east

on the other hand there are top coaches like trapattoni, who is probably the most decorated coach in european football and capello haven't found success internationally, true we don't expect much if you're coaching ireland and russia. but they did coach italy and england who had stacked squads, and neither made any major impression in any international tournament

i'm not sure if i support the analogy that international teams are poor. yes, you can pick one or two top teams that have regressed, e.g. france, brazil, italy, but overall there has been improvement; colombia's a better side than they were ten years ago, jamaica a couple of years back would have conceded a boat-load of goals to argentina; they were quite disciplined, and that has to count for improvement, chile are a better side now compared to the salas and zamorano era, uruguay feature more at the world stage too, the african sides are getting better too....

i don't think its as clear cut to say int'l football is poor these days, i think its about the same, just maybe less star power type players distributed out, but from a team perspective its still healthy

the champions league will be the set standard when players see it that way. in my opinion it is rich and glamorous, i won't call it the SET standard. its normal for mourinho and saf to say that considering their careers have been club based. but when a player monitors his form, health and fitness in club competition, and makes sacrifices at club level just so he doesn't miss the summer competition that's every four years (even though he knows he has little chance of winning it), i'd say that competition must be on a standard of its own

the ucl has a lot of good teams, but it has a lot of garbage teams as well, and two legged ties especially in the groups, coupled with the rigors of the regular season, sometimes just means the garbage teams get their pay check and just leave....competition is a do or die, one shot chance, no preserving for away legs or none of that. the challenges int'l football stacks against one is what sparks the competition. not when a team gets knocked out, you spend 150 million the next year to get help and back up....play the cards you've been dealt, that's pretty much the closest one gets to an EVEN playing field

titosantill wrote:i don't believe in this whole "you need a coach with euro experience" or "you need a manager who has coached top sides" (by the way tata martino does have a year of euro experience). look at the coaches who have won international competitions, how many of them actually coached top level clubs? del bosque, lippi, who else? scolari never coached in europe before winning the world cup or coaching protugal to a euro final, he had only coached in brazil and the middle east

on the other hand there are top coaches like trapattoni, who is probably the most decorated coach in european football and capello haven't found success internationally, true we don't expect much if you're coaching ireland and russia. but they did coach italy and england who had stacked squads, and neither made any major impression in any international tournament

i'm not sure if i support the analogy that international teams are poor. yes, you can pick one or two top teams that have regressed, e.g. france, brazil, italy, but overall there has been improvement; colombia's a better side than they were ten years ago, jamaica a couple of years back would have conceded a boat-load of goals to argentina; they were quite disciplined, and that has to count for improvement, chile are a better side now compared to the salas and zamorano era, uruguay feature more at the world stage too, the african sides are getting better too....

i don't think its as clear cut to say int'l football is poor these days, i think its about the same, just maybe less star power type players distributed out, but from a team perspective its still healthy

the champions league will be the set standard when players see it that way. in my opinion it is rich and glamorous, i won't call it the SET standard. its normal for mourinho and saf to say that considering their careers have been club based. but when a player monitors his form, health and fitness in club competition, and makes sacrifices at club level just so he doesn't miss the summer competition that's every four years (even though he knows he has little chance of winning it), i'd say that competition must be on a standard of its own

the ucl has a lot of good teams, but it has a lot of garbage teams as well, and two legged ties especially in the groups, coupled with the rigors of the regular season, sometimes just means the garbage teams get their pay check and just leave....competition is a do or die, one shot chance, no preserving for away legs or none of that. the challenges int'l football stacks against one is what sparks the competition. not when a team gets knocked out, you spend 150 million the next year to get help and back up....play the cards you've been dealt, that's pretty much the closest one gets to an EVEN playing field

I agree to a point, but if a country is having a down cycle they just are there is no fixing it, you choose to look at it as a negative that club teams can strengthen with money, I don't. It's more competitive that way and the big teams can basically all spend with each other to a point. Also, I like the fact you can choose to buy your starting 11 or grow them from your academy, or make good choices in the market like Juve, Atletico or Dortmond have.

There are a number of ways to win the CL, in the world cup your country basically needs to have the best players or close to it, there is just no time to properly coach up a squad to win it, that's why only a handful of country's have won it.

I could argue the World Cup has a decent amount of poor teams as well when you look at the likes of Concacaf, Asia and Africa to an extent all who have never won it, not to mention the host team getting a #1 seed. There's knockout rounds just like the CL it's not all do or die.

But you are right, I fully believe players make business decisions in a world cup year not to get hurt to play in the tournament. But again players also make business decisions in which team to transfer to if there not in the CL, it's becoming harder every year to land a top player if you're not in the CL.

Of course a tournament that rolls around every 4 years is going to hold a certain prestige that can never be taken away. I would only argue that in international football the cards are dealt and you have what you have. There's not much to do about it which again is why the same teams win it every year.

good points, don't get me wrong, i like european football, and i've loved it for a very long time now. i'm not even suggesting anything about it changes, its fantastic, for us men, i consider that (along with nba basketball) our own soap opera, where transfers and trades are like major turning points and part of the shock factor.

the reason i made those points, is because guys like saf, mourinho, wenger all great coaches, except wenger (joking you look at arsenal's financial situation, and wenger deserves some credit for that), have made it a habit of bashing the value of int'l football, and do so in my opinion to keep their players healthy. nothing wrong in that

as far as weak world cup teams go, in a one round match up, you can make it a mantra to 'defend at all cost', and operate on the counter or set pieces, if you don't have the right players...as ugly as some may see it, its a change in tactics in the positive direction in my opinion, laying down or being naive to receive a 9-1 whooping is foolish. the home and away legs of ucl, coupled with games on the weekend, for many of the eastern euro, scottish or belgian teams imo makes them considerably weaker than the lesser world cup teams, and a two legged tie against a top dog (not all the time) can equate to two legged full blown massacres. nothing wrong with all that, sometimes we love to see a good ol fashioned ass whooping every now and again.

the fact the odds get stacked at international level is what we like to see, 1 error whether as a team or personally like neymar and suarez could see you out of the competition all together. its a real test of character and patience.....i like signings too, hell i'm a madrid fan, but we always want to see what happens when the window of opportunity is slimmer. even the best national teams don't always coast to easy victories, like germany did to brazil (still can't believe that)

jibers wrote:

El Cujo wrote:

jibers wrote:

That's not how football works

Yeah because any team can just park the bus and suddenly no teams can score on them without blind luck. My bad.

Not your bad. You just don't understand the ge game at all. understandable. So because they have attacking players, and by that we mean strikers they will do well against a block of 4 lines?

Stick to FM son.

Pretty much exactly what I said.

I'll stick to actually playing and watching soccer; you stick to the keyboard thuggin'.

El Cujo wrote:

jibers wrote:

El Cujo wrote:

Yeah because any team can just park the bus and suddenly no teams can score on them without blind luck. My bad.

Not your bad. You just don't understand the ge game at all. understandable. So because they have attacking players, and by that we mean strikers they will do well against a block of 4 lines?

Stick to FM son.

Pretty much exactly what I said.

I'll stick to actually playing and watching soccer; you stick to the keyboard thuggin'.

Whatever you say champ. At least this explains a lot.

The mother of Colombia striker Carlos Bacca has slammed Brazil captain Neymar for his behaviour after her son's side beat Brazil 1-0 on Wednesday, insisting she would have hit the Barcelona star with one of her high heels.

Neymar was handed a red card and subsequent four-match suspension after sparking ugly scenes at the end Wednesday's Copa America clash in Santiago, first firing the ball at Pablo Armero before aiming a head-butt at Jeison Murillo.

Bacca was also dismissed after confronting and shoving Neymar but the Sevilla forward's mother says the Brazilian deserved everything he got.

"If I'd been in the stadium I would have taken off my high heel and hit Neymar. I know many women in the stadium would have joined me," Eloisa Ahumada, told El Heraldo.

"I felt anger and helplessness, as I wanted to be there to push [my son] away so they couldn't hit him because it could have been serious."

Bacca has been handed a two-match suspension from Conmebol for his role in the fracas and Ms Ahumada went on to condemn her son's behaviour, saying she taught him better.

"I was really annoyed because I've never seen this attitude of Carlos in the game before," she said.

"I sent him a message telling him off because he didn't need to react that way."

Edinson Cavani is considering leaving Uruguay's Copa America camp following the arrest of his father over allegations of causing death by dangerous driving while under the influence of alcohol, according to head coach Oscar Tabarez.

Uruguay outlet Subrayado alleges the Paris Saint-Germain star's father, Luis Cavani, is being held in police custody after his car collided with a motorcycle in the South American nation on Monday night.

The motorcyclist, confirmed as a 19-year-old man, is believed to have been taken to the nearest hospital in the city of Salto with a diagnosis of “multiple trauma and loss of consciousness, in a severe condition”.

However, in the early hours of Tuesday he was pronounced dead as details of the incident emerged, including allegations that the PSG striker's father tested positive for being over the legal alcohol limit.

Tabarez has confirmed that Cavani will train with the national team ahead of Wednesday's quarter-final clash with host nation Chile but said it is possible he will return to Uruguay before the game takes place.

"It is a personal issue regarding Edinson who was not involved in anything but is nonetheless affected," the coach told reporters on Tuesday.

"We talked to him to extend our support to him. He is affected as anyone who would have such a thing happen to a member of their family.

"What will happen in between now and the game is we can assess how the player has been affected. The game is at 20:30 (01:30CET Thursday) tomorrow, not today, so we will train. In the coming hours we will continue to talk to him."

Luis Cavani's arrest is the second drink-driving incident to shock the football world during the Copa America after Chile's Arturo Vidal crashed his car while under the influence of alcohol.

Your mother always knows best (or should anyway).

As if Chile's road to the final could have gotten any easier

Tough situation for Cavani to be in though

sad that some kid loses his life, even sadder that its due to some immature behavior from a grown ass man. if you're too foolish and reckless with your life, please don't put others at risk. somebody has lost a loved one because of this man's foolishness. imo the punishment for vidal should have been more severe, if a lengthy ban can be given for biting, then drunk driving should not be a slap on the wrist....he put people's lives at risk because of such foolishness. please put pride aside and never should follow the mindset of "one drink isn't enough to impair me", don't be selfish and consider others....tough situation for edinson cavani, even tougher for the poor boy's family

Peru will make it hell for Chile in the semis, that's guaranteed. Not saying we will win but it wont be a blowout

Its a shame, so many scandals in one tournament. whats wrong with all these SA players and their families....

Thanks to this tournament i learned a lot about S.American people. Its just GTA in real life
Winning this tournament is very dangerous

ahmad25 wrote:Thanks to this tournament i learned a lot about S.American people. Its just GTA in real life
Winning this tournament is very dangerous

No wonder Messi is afraid of winning it