Re: Yaya Toure Denunciation Thread

by dostoevsky Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:02 am

I have to agree with dnmac here in that, whilst it was far from a great performance from Yaya, this is starting to become like the Benzema/Higuain threads. When the first comments refer to a poster instead of actually dissecting a performance then it's pretty obvious this is about settling personal scores rather than discussing football. He was poor and the gall to order people around in the box then to stand still while your man buries a header was shocking but City lost today, not Yaya alone.

Without the red card, Yaya would get a passing grade at least for the game but it was an unnecessary, unprofessional outburst from a player who should know better. Undoubtedly the referee was poor today and Wernbloom should have been sent off on multiple occasions, whilst fouls from Fernandes and others went unpunished throughout the game, however Yaya's been around the block for long enough to be able to shrug off rough play, he just let the pressure get to him.

Milner and Kompany were decent as well, whilst Aguero had a few moments of promise but all in all it was a listless performance but against a very well organised side. CSKA certainly are not as bad as Roma made them look in the first game and what we saw today was a side that were not only disciplined in defence but very competent on the ball when playing out. Their counter attacks were the result of crisp passing, strong drive from midfield and excellent movement up front. City certainly did not lose to a poor side. I was personally surprised that Dzeko didn't start the game over Jovetic though, if there's one thing that has cost Eastern European sides over and over again when they play English teams it's aerial contests in the box. Against a side that afforded very little room in behind he could have at least provided a different avenue to goal.

I was shocked by the casualness and naivete of so many players with significant European experience though. Clichy twice, Fernando twice and Navas all gave the ball away through blind passes into the centre that led to direct counters on goal. Combined with Fernandinho's 20 minute double yellow, it's a very clear demonstration of the failure of an entire team, not just one player. As bad as Yaya's marking was, he pulled a goal back himself and it was not the winner. City should have been able to push on after the equaliser to put the mistake behind them but failed to and that's the bigger issue.

by Abramovich Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:55 pm

Poor mans Essien.

by Curtinho Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:16 pm

It feels like because of his great season (offensively) last year Toure got mad overrated quickly. He is not one of the best players in the world for me. I also don't think he puts a lot of work in defensively.

Not blaming him for City's struggles at all because I don't think he's a good enough player for them to rely on to be their difference maker. I think they badly miss Silva right now.

by Dnmac4 Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:22 pm

El Cujo wrote:It feels like because of his great season (offensively) last year Toure got mad overrated quickly. He is not one of the best players in the world for me. I also don't think he puts a lot of work in defensively.

Not blaming him for City's struggles at all because I don't think he's a good enough player for them to rely on to be their difference maker. I think they badly miss Silva right now.

He's having a bad season this year and no one is arguing this.

But yes, he has been one of the best players in the world comfortably for the last 5 years or so.

He has easily been one of the top 3-4 players in the EPL pretty much every year he's been there and I don't really know where your getting that Yaya isn't a good enough player to be a difference maker for City?

He powered them to the title last year, put them on his back for the league cup trophies they have won and I mean literally willing them to win the FA cup by scoring from insane runs.

And when Mancini as there he was basically Mancini's get out of jail free card. He held Yaya back all game and then when his rigid style had them drawing or losing to a team they should be beating he would take the handcuffs off Yaya and he would go score, set up or set up the set up man for the goal. Or just make back breaking runs into the other teams area disrupting there defense.

I mean I don't mean to be rude and yes he is having a bad season this year but have you watched the EPL in the last 5 years? How on earth can you say Yaya is not good enough to be a difference maker?

And BTW, I'm not pointing this out specifically because of you but Yaya has never been overrated, if anything most African players are underrated. If it took him scoring 20 goals last year for people to find out how good he's been for about a decade than people are really missing the boat on this guys career.

by Art Morte Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:13 pm

The thing is that Yaya has been at City for such a long time by now that any manager who comes in there should know what to expect from him - and what to not expect from him.

At the best of times Yaya does OK off-the-ball, but if anyone expects him to really put in a shift off-the-ball they're delusional. He is at his best when his team's got the ball and then he can score 20+ goals in a season, like he did. That absolutely huge, phenomenal for a midfield player. But you simply need to accept what comes with that; it's some lazy off-the-ball play.

If you don't like that combination, bench him. But who can really be the better player in City's midfield? That's right, no one they have.

by Lord Awesome Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:35 pm

Don't know where the Toure Yaya hate stems from but you guys do realize it's Pellegrini who's at fault with Man City.

Seriously tho, where does the hate for Toure come from?

by Curtinho Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:18 pm

I don't think you have to hate a player to think they are overrated. I don't hate Toure I just don't think that he's as good as some people think he is. Fantastic player that most teams would like to have, but not one of the best players in the world for me.

by LeBéninois Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:04 pm

El Cujo wrote:I don't think you have to hate a player to think they are overrated. I don't hate Toure I just don't think that he's as good as some people think he is. Fantastic player that most teams would like to have, but not one of the best players in the world for me.

contradictory hmm

by Dnmac4 Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:20 pm

El Cujo wrote:I don't think you have to hate a player to think they are overrated. I don't hate Toure I just don't think that he's as good as some people think he is. Fantastic player that most teams would like to have, but not one of the best players in the world for me.

What does this even mean?

It's flat out a fact that Yaya has never been overrated.

Jack Wilshere is overrated, There's a whole crop of Brazilian midfielders that are overrated, Pique was hugely overrated and on the other side of the coin Puyol was hugely underrated, KPB is overrated, Fellaini is overrated Andy Carroll and Tom Cleverly are/were overrated, Bojan was overrated.

These are people who were overrated. Yaya Toure was bought for a steal of a price and paid off handsomely for City and has been one of the best midfield players in the world for a long time now and proved out in multiple leagues.

Yaya over the last 5 years comfortably walks into almost any midfield in the world.

If you want to say he's been bad this year that's cool. But over his career the man has been awesome.

by Dnmac4 Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:55 pm

Art Morte wrote:The thing is that Yaya has been at City for such a long time by now that any manager who comes in there should know what to expect from him - and what to not expect from him.

At the best of times Yaya does OK off-the-ball, but if anyone expects him to really put in a shift off-the-ball they're delusional. He is at his best when his team's got the ball and then he can score 20+ goals in a season, like he did. That absolutely huge, phenomenal for a midfield player. But you simply need to accept what comes with that; it's some lazy off-the-ball play.

If you don't like that combination, bench him. But who can really be the better player in City's midfield? That's right, no one they have.

This really isn't the case either.

The 20 goal season was a huge one one off for Yaya.

He generally scores around 9-10 goals a year and has 6-8 assists. There usually huge goals but he's only scored 20 goals once. His assists are impressive and he picks out a ball from deep midfield better than almost anyone.

He's one of the best players in the world at giving the killer ball from midfield that's the assist before the assist.

And he can put in a shift and dominate the midfield when he wants to. The guy played CB in a CL final against Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney and didn't put a step wrong.

He is older now so you don't see the work rate you used to, that doesn't mean it was never there, he is asked to do different things now. If any of you watch City, and Silva doesn't play he is the main creative player in the team, you can't ask a guy to do that, score and play DM all in one.

He's not some 5'7 guy who can run all day.

Just to compare since some of you are so down on Toure, he is the same age as Essien and had a 20/10 season. Essien can barely run anymore.

Look at a lot of former CM/DM's over 30 years old, it's not just Toure that slowed down. Xabi Alonso is the same age, he doesn't put in half the defensive work he used to and last year Modric did the majority of it.

Gerrard and Lampard don't put in half the work they used to, Ballack's goals dropped sharply when he turned 32.

I mean it's a natural progression.

CM/DM put's more mileage on your legs than any other position on the field. A lot of these guys will play late into there careers but they re-invent themselves around the age of 32-35 and a lot just drop off the face of the earth.

Again you cannot expect any guy let alone a guy who's 32 years old to be one of your main scoring threats, one of your top assist guys, your main creative force, your defensive wrecking ball and the guy to hold the ball up and keep possession.

Some of your expectations are so far from reality for Yaya it's insane.

Yes he's having a bad year, no doubt. But this guy has been used and abused, played almost every game for City and is coming off a world cup. give the guy a break.

by Harmonica Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:52 pm

by RealGunner Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:52 pm

barthez

Great team otherwise.

by Mr Nick09 Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:26 pm

probably the first time Barthez makes his way to an all time list rofl

by sportsczy Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:34 pm

Barthez in 1998 along with Buffon in 2006 had the most insane WCs i have ever seen... was the best keeper in the world from 1997-2000 until he went insane after he moved to Man U Laughing

Yaya probably was in his early teens during Barthez' prime.

by Curtinho Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:13 pm

Maradona might be the most overrated player in history.

by M99 Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:29 pm

El Cujo wrote:Maradona might be the most overrated player in history.

by Casciavit Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:11 pm

M99 wrote:
El Cujo wrote:Maradona might be the most overrated player in history.

by chad4401 Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:33 pm

el cujo is like 10 or something... Laughing

by izzy Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:36 pm

El Cujo wrote:Maradona might be the most overrated player in history.

Interesting........ hmm

Why do you think he is overrated?

by Pip Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:01 pm

Fabien Barthez, world's best goalkeeper from 1997-2000. :bow:

by Curtinho Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:14 pm

izzy wrote:
El Cujo wrote:Maradona might be the most overrated player in history.

Interesting........

Why do you think he is overrated?

Because he is fat.

by RealGunner Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:34 pm

sportsczy wrote:Barthez in 1998 along with Buffon in 2006 had the most insane WCs i have ever seen... was the best keeper in the world from 1997-2000 until he went insane after he moved to Man U Yaya probably was in his early teens during Barthez' prime.

At no point in Barthez's career he was ever better than David Seaman lol. He surely can't be the best in the world.

by Art Morte Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:33 pm

On the other hand, keeper is probably the least important player in an all-time XI, so it's not that bad to say Barthez, imo.

by titosantill Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:51 pm

the word "overrated" is becoming 'overrated'....as for yaya, ust because a player goes through a bad patch doesn't mean they're terrible or over-hyped or any of that garbage people spew...city's european failures have been as a result of unfortunate group stage draws and approaches made by coaches....mancini wasn't stellar in europe at inter, and this is pellegrini's second season, took him a while to do anything in europe at villareal.....toure's a fantastic player, he's just had a stressful year.

by chad4401 Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:32 pm

by sportsczy Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:54 pm

RealGunner wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Barthez in 1998 along with Buffon in 2006 had the most insane WCs i have ever seen... was the best keeper in the world from 1997-2000 until he went insane after he moved to Man U Yaya probably was in his early teens during Barthez' prime.

At no point in Barthez's career he was ever better than David Seaman lol. He surely can't be the best in the world.

You didn't watch him at NT and at Monaco... he was just insanely good. He singlehandedly got Monaco to the CL semis by making insane saves in pool play and then dominating Man U (which is why they signed him imo) in the quarters 1998. Juve pummeled them in the semis... but they were just way too overmatched there. Sagnol and Di Meco lost their heads a bit. Got 4 trophies in 3 years at Monaco.

You think Neuer plays sweeper-keeper well... add another 10 meters and that was the area Barthez was covering.

Problem was that he moved to Man U when he was 29-30 and he started losing that athleticism/speed. Yet, he still wanted to play the same way and he was a step slower... it wasn't pretty Laughing

But he was unquestionably.... and i mean without the smallest hint of a doubt... the best keeper from 1997-2000.

by Sponsored content