FC Barcelona vs Athletic Bilbao

dani mentioned in the last game how Neymar seemed to have more positional freedom.Well it maybe true.The forwards do seem to have more freedom.But it has come at the expense of the freedom of the midfielders and their play.
The genius of Pep was that he realized the uniqueness of Xavi and Iniesta and allowed them the creative freedom to explode.He let them have positional freedom within limits knowing that they were intelligent enough not to make mistakes.And by giving them this freedom Pep took midfield play to a level never ever seen before and probably never ever will.The quartet of Busquets,Xavi,Iniesta and Messi combined to create magic in the middle of the pitch.In fact the entire front 6 had a lot of freedom.And what made it work was the great pressing.

Enrique's system is different.He wants his midfielders to stay in position and protect their zone at all times.Iniesta one of the all time greats has been reduced to covering Alba.I would like to see a heat map of the team.I can bet that Iniesta played in the same line as Busquets.There were plenty of times when he could be found even deeper than Busquets.Thats no way to utilize the genius of Iniesta.I understand that last couple of seasons we have been exploited a lot from the wings when the fullbacks pushed up.But the solution isnt to constrain the midfielders and especially Iniesta.

Have a lot more to say but will do after I get a few responses.

Xavi fanboy alert, I think you should move on from the stone age. No Barca fan cares about freaking triangle's if they win comfortably. This game could have ended 6-0 or even more, and Barca has conceded a single shot on goal in 3 games.

alex you are probably right, but Rakitic is no Xavi, and we have a very different team now, so changes in play are expected. I just hope they work. So far so good, considering the injuries.

Ofcourse changes are expected and needed.Its the way to evolve and succeed.But one has to be fair.A lot of us criticized Martino because the football wasnt upto par.
Well so far Enriqueball has been no better.Maybe even worse.Or does he get a free pass because he is an ex player and legend.

Those are some intresting details. But I would say this Alex.

Luis Enrique has said publicly that he doesnt like that sometimes they still play too vertically. We already knew this isnt the finished product of the team, but with that quote from him should say something about what he wants vs what we are seeing.

Its made even more tricky by Suarez. Because he will surely change what we are doing now. So it might still be a while before we see the final idea of Enrique.

Its not the verticality that troubles me.Our 2 CM's exchanged a grand total of 4 passes over 90 minutes.And I saw no intricate passing or combination play through the midfield which is our MO.
Thats what concerns me.

7 points I raised.Anything u would disagree with dani or maybe saw differently or maybe analysed differently.

btw, 'Intricate Pass Patterns' is also the title of my forthcoming coming-of-age autobiographical novel about my juveline attempts to get laid.

I don't think we are playing anything as badly as with martino. actually the opposite,we are playing very well. very different than pep, but well and according to our principles. You only need to see Pedro's chance in the first half or Munir s chance to see we have a much better passing game. Those were great passing plays.

it's true that our cm play wider, but that seems to be a very good solution: it helps to cover for the very attacking full backs and also to make space for messi in between the lines. I see it as a smart move from Luis Enrique instead of something to criticize.

So far I'm very happy with Luis Enrique except the bad treatment he is giving to Bartra and Deulofeu. Especially playing Mascherano as CB is very worrying. I understand he likes Mascherano attitude that probably reminds him of himself,.but Bartra has also a great attitude and is twice the CB.

I won't jump in and say the Messi-Neymar partnership is a solid one yet. Last night they obviously showed more understanding but for me Neymar needs to grow a pair and not always look for Messi. He is trying too hard to please the main man but he should ultimately play to his strengths. Aside from that, he also needs to work on his movements when someone like Messi has the ball. He needs to penetrate through the defence like Alexis used to and get himself into scoring opportunities or open up the defence for others. Right now he is trying to play the creator role rather than poacher and in his defence that is what was expected of him in Santos or Brazil but he needs to learn to play differently when it is beneficial.

Also regarding midfielders not passing to each other and playing more direct, so what? It means a higher tempo game and less meaningless possession in the middle of the park. Sometimes that is a good thing, especially when you're playing against more defensive teams. Against opponents that are more dangerous, the game plan can be changed by bringing Xavi and playing a more cautious game, slowing the tempo down etc. It would be stupid to play this way with Rakitić in midfield.

Last but not least Barcelona could play the way they did during Guardiola's reign because they had very special players with extraordinary qualities which suited that style, and also the fact that opponents hadn't figured out how to counter their unique style of football. This is not the case any more. Opponents have learned to counter the strategy efficiently (see the Guardiola's "masterpiece" in the Champions League against Madrid last season) and Barcelona possess special players but with different qualities (Rakitić vs. Xavi).

alexjanosik wrote:Its not the verticality that troubles me.Our 2 CM's exchanged a grand total of 4 passes over 90 minutes.And I saw no intricate passing or combination play through the midfield which is our MO.
Thats what concerns me.

Well that indeed isnt normal. Only 4 passes between them. But doesnt that in a way go hand in hand with the increased verticality?

I feel like, Rakitic especially, when he gets the ball he looks forward or to his stronger right (out to the fullback). He doesnt turn inside and look to switch the way and make the opponent run side to side.

Iniesta naturally the more aggressor of our midfield (with Xavi), is always one to surge forward.

So I think that actually maybe its not so surprising. Rakitic seems like he wants to give up the ball quickly and that is usually to his right or in front of him.

When Xavi played, the exchanges of passes became contagious. What I mean is, Xavi looks to switch the play. Out to Xavi or going to his left. He is a proponent in making the opponent run. And as you know Xavi always come in search for the ball, covering great distances (in terms of finding the ball) and I these two combined naturally lead to more exchanges.

I would disagree with those who neglect the lack of exchanges as unimportant. It is important.

Bilbao was allowing alot of space behind them and we played alot of balls forwards over the top. So we went for them. But I dont think it will always be this way, teams who play deep will force us to play sideways. We have to work them the width of the pitch otherwise we will be stuck trying to penetrate spaces. We have to create gaps in between the players. When that situation arises, then I do expect to see more interchanges between the midfield.

Crossses wont work, balls over the top wont wont, shots from distance are inefficent and dont test the defence and there will not be many 1 v 1 situations on the pitch. So again, I disagree with those who think it isnt important to combine and play through the middle. Because the two ways we will break down those teams, will be through quick interchanges in the middle and of course, high pressing.

alexjanosik wrote:7 points I raised.Anything u would disagree with dani or maybe saw differently or maybe analysed differently.

Ill have to think about that and get back to you.

Beautiful attack.

In general, isn't it simply too early to judge?

Fußball wrote:Beautiful attack.

Ali MacGraw, my eyes!

Not intricate enough.

One thing I can't understand is how people are expecting from the team to magically reach Guardiola's era standards.
Don't you get the once in a lifetime concept?
So far we have 3 clean sheets, a more energetic team, promisses of even more improvement and people are still complaining...

Hapless_Hans wrote:In general, isn't it simply too early to judge?

I think there are some things that can be judged already because they are clearly deliberate changes and not random occurences.

There is definitely an increased collective workrate to be observed for example. Can't be denied at all. Bravo had to make 1 half save of a cross after 3 games. 3 games of which 1 was played with 10 men for an entire half, another away to a traditionally tough team and another vs. a CL team that beat Napoli 4-2 over 2 legs.

Another change that is quite obvious is the positioning of the fullbacks and "wingers". The wingers are now playing a lot more central, more like inside forwards than wingers. At the same time the fullbacks are both positioned higher up the pitch to provide the width instead of the wide forwards. Both these changes go hand-in-hand, have been pretty much confirmed by Montoya ("Enrique wants us to play higher up") and Pedro ("Enrique wants us to play closer to the center") and can be observed:







You can see that the entire set-up of the team is determined and built towards the forwards, i. e. Suarez and Nerman providing movement infront of Messi. This obviously requires the fullbacks to provide enough width which in return requires the central midfielders to cover for the fullbacks so a simple long ball behind the fullbacks doesn't undo Barca's entire defense on the counter. Which is why alexjanosik is seeing split central midfielders.

IMO it's logical to build like this when you have a forward line like Barca have.

I remember that Dani said he doesn't fancy Suarez too much because of the balance of the team and because he'll be wasted on the right. What do you think now that you've seen what Lucho is trying to do with the more central inside forward concept?

free_cat wrote:Not intricate enough.

On topic: good post futbol. What is the blog you got those pictures from?

http://busi1325.blogspot.com.es/2014/09/una-tarde-en-el-camp-nou.html

Cheers

Nice blog.

Woahhh, havent seen that second picture and havent noticed in. How many times has Messi dropped back in that kind of situations? Impressive by Enrique to make him to that

Fußball wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:In general, isn't it simply too early to judge?

I think there are some things that can be judged already because they are clearly deliberate changes and not random occurences.

There is definitely an increased collective workrate to be observed for example. Can't be denied at all. Bravo had to make 1 half save of a cross after 3 games. 3 games of which 1 was played with 10 men for an entire half, another away to a traditionally tough team and another vs. a CL team that beat Napoli 4-2 over 2 legs.

Another change that is quite obvious is the positioning of the fullbacks and "wingers". The wingers are now playing a lot more central, more like inside forwards than wingers. At the same time the fullbacks are both positioned higher up the pitch to provide the width instead of the wide forwards. Both these changes go hand-in-hand, have been pretty much confirmed by Montoya ("Enrique wants us to play higher up") and Pedro ("Enrique wants us to play closer to the center") and can be observed:







You can see that the entire set-up of the team is determined and built towards the forwards, i. e. Suarez and Nerman providing movement infront of Messi. This obviously requires the fullbacks to provide enough width which in return requires the central midfielders to cover for the fullbacks so a simple long ball behind the fullbacks doesn't undo Barca's entire defense on the counter. Which is why alexjanosik is seeing split central midfielders.

IMO it's logical to build like this when you have a forward line like Barca have.

I remember that Dani said he doesn't fancy Suarez too much because of the balance of the team and because he'll be wasted on the right. What do you think now that you've seen what Lucho is trying to do with the more central inside forward concept?

futbal,
You are basically just saying what I am saying.Only difference is you are trying to spin it in a positive light while I see it as a negative.And the fact that you are using pics while I didnt.
I realize that the CM's are wider to cover for the fullbacks.I mentioned as much.In fact that seems to be their main role.I mentioned that Iniesta,one of the GOATS has been reduced to covering for Alba.And no matter how much spin you put on it,thats a negative.

And I dont like the more wing based approach and the decision of making Messi the main man again.Messi dropping and the forwards making runs wont work against the better teams as proven in the past.Teams have gotten used to it.

My post and observation was more to point out that this team plays nothing like Pep's team.I have seen a lot of comments suggesting similarities.Just wanted to point out that there are few if any.Enrique plays more the Van Gaal way with more positional rigidity and limits on player movement.While the Pep/Cruyff way allowed players more positional freedom and movement.

And I dont expect the team to reach Guardiola era standards.I just found the tactics intriguing and thought they marked a clear departure from the way we have played for the past few years.Thought it was a good topic for a debate.It has made for an interesting discussion.

On the topic of tactics,another difference.The spacing between our 3 lines is significantly more than it was under Pep.futbal's pictures prove as much.Notice how far Iniesta(and the midfield line is from the forward line).Pep always squeezed the 3 lines as much as he can.He wanted to compress the field of play and put the 3 lines very close to each other.This created the triangles which enabled the intricate passing and enabled better and faster recovery of the ball.

Enrique has his lines more spaced which is again not conducive to short passing between the lines.I sense we are going to see a lot more medium/long passes and a lot less short passes than under Pep.The lines are just too far apart to be conducive to intricate short passing.I see it as a negative but I am sure futbal will put a positive spin on it. Guy should have worked for Tony Blair.

Lastly I am certain that free would be up in arms if it was Martino who played this way.

prime Xavi's partnership with Iniesta, a young and hungry Messi, and the rising era of busquets tangled along with Peps vision was a perfect storm.

Xavi hasn't even played more than like 10 mins now, 3 games into the season, with Rakitic who's a completely different player taking is role. Also Messi now plays allot deeper than he did in the Pep era, and the flank which was previously occupied by Henry/Villa/Pedro is now occupied by Neymar/Munir/Sandro....and soon the other by Suarez. All these things are clear indicators we must realize that the Pep era is past us, but that a new one with similar philosophy and roots is upon us.

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