R16: Belgium vs USA - 1st July

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Who will win between USA and Belgium?

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Post by Gil Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:06 pm

People talk about Belgium being unconvincing in the group stages but when were Spain ever convincing in the 2010 Word Cup? Not a single game.

Belgium have one of the best defenses in the World Cup and star forwards capable of winning games by themselves. Sometimes that's all you need.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:07 pm

McLewis wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:They were never in the group of death. American media just called it that to fit into the underdog story they were telling. But anyone objective would have called Group D the group of death - it had THREE former world cup champions for the first time in history.


Where is it written that there can't be 2 groups of death? Laughing
difference between calling it a group of death and the group of death I suppose.
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Post by McLewis Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:10 pm

Belgium have a lot more to prove than just narrowly beating teams they were expected to batter with that cadre of talent at their disposal.

When was the last time this side actually beat a team of equal or better caliber in a match that actually meant something?

Until they do that, they have a lot of folks to prove wrong. They can start by handily beating the USA, but I really don't see that happening.


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Post by Curtinho Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:25 pm

The 'group of death' was actually Group B. Any three of Spain, Chile or the Netherlands could have topped every group in the competition. Chile will beat out Brazil, and the Netherlands have a pretty easy route to the semis.

Belgium have bee underwhelming? They just play conservatively. They've at no point been in trouble, but haven't really been pushing for goals. They took their group for what it was and played a very simple, energy efficient game.

Ghana probably should have at least tied, or beaten, the US in their game, and if Portugal had a healthy Ronaldo, Pepe and Coentrao they would have walked all over the US. Germany literally toyed with them.

The US has done well for themselves to get as far as they have, but they are not a threat to Belgium.
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Post by VendettaRed07 Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:02 pm

The haters in this thread

It's like certain teams on here are great, but oh if the USA beats them or knocks them out then they must be shit Laughing ..the toughest group by far we ever advanced from in our history, but no people try to act like it was undeserved or something. People said we were going three and out with zero points for a whole year but ohhh now, actually they knew Portugal and Ghana are crap and all along and it isn't a big deal ..Get out of here with these nonsense posts
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Post by BORUSSIA!! Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:14 pm

No way was USA's group the group of death, just overhyped by the US media.

It was a tough group but the other pot 3 teams (australia and costa rica) got harder groups.

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Post by Curtinho Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:42 pm

VendettaRed07 wrote:The haters in this thread

It's like certain teams on here are great, but oh if the USA beats them or knocks them out then they must be shit Laughing ..the toughest group by far we ever advanced from in our history, but no people try to act like it was undeserved or something. People said we were going three and out with zero points for a whole year but ohhh now, actually they knew Portugal and Ghana are crap and all along and it isn't a big deal ..Get out of here with these nonsense posts


Who said Portugal and Ghana were crap? The thing about one off games is that in theory anyone can win them. Same thing with the knockout stages. In that respect yes, the US has a chance against Belgium in the same way that any team has a chance in a knockout game (or one off games) but if Portugal were healthy, and the US played Ghana and Portugal 10 times each I don't think they'd beat them more than they'd lose. That's not to say the US is a bad team, but they were not the 2nd best team in their group.

Tournaments like these are great for underdog teams, because all it takes is one bad game for a 'favoured' team for them to go out.
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Post by McAgger Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:54 pm

Adit wrote:Costa rica is actually a very good team.

Tell me USA is even 1/10 of the team they are...or even Portugal who had the same points as USA. Both of them gets kicked out in Italy's group no doubt about that.


Results up until the world cup all indicated USA being the better side than Costa Rica.
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Post by Juveman17 Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:58 pm

The haters in this thread ffs :facepalm:

Give credit where credit is due. We played against 3 arguably superior teams and came off with a narrow win vs Ghana, a draw against Portugal when we deserved to win, and a narrow defeat against Germany where we almost scored two goals in the last 5 minutes vs arguably the best team in this tournament. And its not the group of death right Laughing

Belgium had a weak ass group and everyone knows it. They have been over hyped since the start of this tournament and hailed as a "Golden Generation". They still have a ton of stuff to prove before they can claim to have any chance of going deep. And yes Belgium are individually more talented but that means jack shit when the talent cant come together as a unit. I believe in the US because we constantly play with a chip on our shoulder, we have grit, and we win and lose as one unit. Thats something that I think we have over Belgium and I have 100% faith in Jurgen and those boys to get the job done vs Belgium.
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Post by VendettaRed07 Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:12 pm

El Cujo wrote:
VendettaRed07 wrote:The haters in this thread

It's like certain teams on here are great, but oh if the USA beats them or knocks them out then they must be shit Laughing ..the toughest group by far we ever advanced from in our history, but no people try to act like it was undeserved or something. People said we were going three and out with zero points for a whole year but ohhh now, actually they knew Portugal and Ghana are crap and all along and it isn't a big deal ..Get out of here with these nonsense posts


Who said Portugal and Ghana were crap? The thing about one off games is that in theory anyone can win them. Same thing with the knockout stages. In that respect yes, the US has a chance against Belgium in the same way that any team has a chance in a knockout game (or one off games) but if Portugal were healthy, and the US played Ghana and Portugal 10 times each I don't think they'd beat them more than they'd lose. That's not to say the US is a bad team, but they were not the 2nd best team in their group.

Tournaments like these are great for underdog teams, because all it takes is one bad game for a 'favoured' team for them to go out.


Costa Rica is getting all the praise in the world, when you could make the same arguments against them that people are making against us. Out of their group, is costa rica the BEST team there? Hell ****ing no

Because people are saying only after we get out of group G that it is clearly inferior to other groups in this tournament which is such bull and that group D was the real group of death.

The first problem with that is that no team in in group D that is on Germany's. Not even close

Uruguay, Italy and England were really unconvincing in other than maybe one game each.. Italy and England when they played each other, and when Uruguay beat england.. Other than that they were terrible. Yet people don't use that against Costa Rica.. Or against Chile because of the absolute egg spain laid in their first two games.. Or to their detriment saying things like "well, they shouldn't have gone through, they didn't deserve it.. group really wasn't that hard, etc."

Costa Rica got really lucky to play against Uruguay in the opener when Suarez didn't play.. Because they aren't the same team when he doesn't play, not even close. They rely on Suarez about the same as Portugal rely on Ronaldo if not more.

Uruguay got really lucky to advance because Italy got hosed with a red and suarez got away with ****ing biting someone.

Just saying that group D was harder with how poorly everyone in that group played is just silly. Ghana and Portugal could have easily beaten any team in that group had they played against each other. So I don't know what anyone is talking about here.
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Post by Gil Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:15 pm

You guys are saying Belgium are overrated and USA are underrated but look at the poll results.
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Post by VendettaRed07 Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:18 pm

I never said that and people would be to. Will be an incredibly hard game. Theres a difference between saying I believe we have a chance to go through rather than stating Belgium are overrated therefore there is nothing to worry about
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Post by Gil Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:31 pm

Look, just because you got out of the "Group of Death" means nothing. Belgium are comfortably better than both Ghana and Portugal.
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Post by Juveman17 Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:36 pm

Gil wrote:Look, just because you got out of the "Group of Death" means nothing. Belgium are comfortably better than both Ghana and Portugal.


Comfortably? I wouldnt say so.
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Post by Gil Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:46 pm

Juveman17 wrote:
Gil wrote:Look, just because you got out of the "Group of Death" means nothing. Belgium are comfortably better than both Ghana and Portugal.


Comfortably? I wouldnt say so.


Yes they are comfortably better. Like I told everyone pre-tournament only Moutinho, Coentrao, Pepe and Ronaldo would get into Belgium's squad.

Well, Coentrao was unfortunately injured. Pepe got himself sent off in the 1st half of the first game. Moutinho was coming into the tournament in terrible form (branded the flop of the season by L'Equipe) and Ronaldo was nowhere near the required fitness. They're an aging team that needed qualifiers to get into the Word Cup despite being drawn into a group with Russia as the 2nd seed.

Ghana on the other hand probably played the best 3 games of the 4 teams but have maybe the worst defense in the competition.

So yes, Belgium comfortably have better teams and players than Portugal and Ghana.
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Post by VendettaRed07 Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:00 pm

Gil wrote:Look, just because you got out of the "Group of Death" means nothing. Belgium are comfortably better than both Ghana and Portugal.


So what. Again, I said nothing about belgium other than they are a good team, and it will be a very tough game. Am I not allowed to think that we have a chance of going through? Its a knock out competition if you didn't remember.

You base that on absolutely nothing. Belgium's group wasn't very good and yet they looked terrible playing it.

How they played in the group isn't necessarily indicative of how they will play later, but its as much of a leap to say that they are "overrated" as it is to say that they look comfortably better than Portugal and Ghana.
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Post by Magic Spray Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:54 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Lucky Laughing

They fully deserved to qualify and it should have been all over by the 2nd game.

Not to mention their group was several levels above Belgium's joke of a group.

And they are not better in every position and the game is not played on paper.

People are obsessed with names, individual talent (which Belgium's is very overrated anyway) and on paper Laughing

All of it means f*ck all, forza USA Molenation


This
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Post by Gil Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:35 pm

Wonder how Origi will do in this game. He's been impressive in all 3 of his cameos so far and will surely start against USA. One to keep an eye on for sure.
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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:53 pm

Motogp69 wrote:When did Kick become Gil :coffee:

LOL


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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:56 pm

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:and the US isn't? klinsmann should be fired after the wc

I couldn't disagree more. Beat Ghana who for me were the best African team who really should have beaten huge favourites Germany. Also would have defeated Portugal but for the last minute goal.


Last edited by messixaviesta on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:01 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Lucky Laughing

They fully deserved to qualify and it should have been all over by the 2nd game.

Not to mention their group was several levels above Belgium's joke of a group.

And they are not better in every position and the game is not played on paper.

People are obsessed with names, individual talent (which Belgium's is very overrated anyway) and on paper Laughing

An excellent post in which I agree with every word.

Do you know how much excitement this year's world cup has generated in USA? It's beating television audience records of NBA finals etc. which is shocking. I think USA are riding on a wave of enthusiasm and will make it to the quarter finals after which they will bow out with their heads held very high.

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:04 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:They were never in the group of death. American media just  called it that to fit into the underdog story they were telling. But anyone objective would have called Group D the group of death -  it had THREE former world cup champions for the first time in history.

I think groups B, D and G were all equally tough. In fact in one sense I rated G as the toughest because that seemed to be the only group in which not one team could be taken lightly and every one of them seemed capable of advancing. In B I expected Australia to cause problems for others but not enough. In D I hardly looked at Costa Rica which means I must now duly apologize to them. In G it looked like a real battle. Also worth noting is that I like most others rated USA as the lowest of the four teams in that group. Considering all that I rate their qualification as a wonderful achievement.


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Post by Gil Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:05 pm

Seems like this Murica side became Brazil 1970 almost overnight. They were thoroughly outplayed by both Ghana and Germany. Their only great performance was against Portugal and they somehow drew that game, you're in for a rude awakening if you think Belgium will play anywhere near as bad as Portugal did.


Last edited by Gil on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:08 pm

Juveman17 wrote:Give credit where credit is due. We played against 3 arguably superior teams and came off with a narrow win vs Ghana, a draw against Portugal when we deserved to win, and a narrow defeat against Germany where we almost scored two goals in the last 5 minutes vs arguably the best team in this tournament. And its not the group of death right Laughing

Very well put


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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:11 pm

So now for the prediction - USA to knock out Belgium.


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Post by Glory Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:36 pm

USA should be given credit. Regardless of the injuries Portuguese suffered and the trouble Ghana had in this wc regarding their player rifts. They have done incredibly well to get out of that group. Even mighty Germany struggled against them and could score only a solitary goal. What more proof do people want to know that they are quality this time around. Well at least it seems as if they know what they are doing and that they are doing to good effect and that is the most important thing i believe.

But when compared with Costa Rica I have to say the latter slightly . Costa rica is all about fearlessness. They are in fact looking like a very very good and positive team on the field and not at all like some also rans.

Where as Belgium, at the start of the wc were one of the teams whom excited me the most and whom I wished to do well. But that was soon gone when I started to watch their games. Sure they have a GOAT team on paper. and they are comparable with Arg and Brazil in terms of performance so far. But there are clear distinctions.
1st is coach and approach. while argentina and brazil have good or even decent coaches in Sabella and Schoari respectively, Belgium has who ? wilmotts rofl the man is so defensive and clueless that he reminds me a great deal of our ex clown Moyesie. His attitude is small team evident from the celebrations after scoring goals against shite teams (another uncanny similarity to dithering Dave) and that makes me believe he simply cant take this team long. His only strategy is hoofball onto Fellaini's chest. He relies on individual brilliance. even though Belgium have plenty of that. But their defensive approach is inhibiting these awesome players from expressing fully.

2nd distinction from Bra and Arg is experience of playing and qualifying so many times to K.O stage. These guys know when to step up their game and how to step up their game. and especially Brazil wont be the same brazil we have seen until now. quote me on that. where as Belgium I am not so sure. May be they can. But lack of experience will come to haunt them even if they manage to progress further.

and 3rd btw are the obvious ones crowd support and favorable surrounding.

These 3 should be enough I guess.

So what I am trying to say is it will be advantage US and A going into this match. They will be the favorites. But that doesnt mean Belgium cant win. They once again will have to rely on individual brilliance to bail them out.

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