Belgium

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Post by Divine Intervention Wed 12 Oct - 6:46

Belgium enjoyed lots of possession yesterday. I expected a lot more from them in a do or die game. Kompany was ball watching during two goals. Hazard? I don't know the German rightback but if he was real quality all the world would know him so he is something between average to good I expect. Hazard didn't do anything of notice with all the possession Belgium enjoyed throughout the game.He reminds me of dribblers who need space or else no end product. Someone like Ronaldo from Real, creativity was close to zero. Fellaini impressed me the most, he'll have a future. Where does he play?
Lukaku tried hard but was owned by the brunette in defence many times, still impact wise much better than Hazard. I expect him to explode in next 2 years.
About Hazard again, is league 1 weak or was he injured or out of form somehow? So much hype surrounds him, yesterday I saw nothing warrant worthy.
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed 12 Oct - 6:58

The German right back is called Benedikt Höwedes, and he is a future world class player, IMHO, he's just not really well known because he's very young, and plays for Schalke. Though he's the Schalke captain, ahead of players like Raul.

He's naturally a CB though, so that's why he didn't get forward much, absolute beast in defence, though. If you ask me, there's a really big chance he'll be Hummels' CB partner if Mertesacker doesn't regain his WC2010 form and Badstuber screws up once or twice.

TBH with Mertesacker, Hummels, Boateng, Badstuber and Höwedes I really can't decide who to start in defence. We still don't have a real right back, though, since Löw is somehow ignoring Castro and Beck since about 2009 for some reason.

Hummels, by the way, is "the brunette in defence", and he should be a household name by now. That kid is almost a playmaker, and has great anticipation. If he knew how to dribble he could be the next Kaiser.

But that's all speaking talent-wise, we obviously don't know with young players like that. They always might just stop developing or choke, same goes for Hazard and Lukaku.

Way too young. But Hazard disappointed me, Lukaku at least worked really, really hard, though he didn't see a glimmer of hope against Hummels.

Still, regarding Hazard, with Belgium imho he just doesn't have the partners for quick passes he has with Lille, so it'd be a tad unfair to blame him for "choking", imho Germany NT is a different thing than basically any Ligue 1 club, contrary to popular opinion on clubs vs internationals.

By now, IMHO, Germany (and Spain) have club-like chemistry with their NTs.

Anyway, it's kind of sad to see Belgium go out, I certainly attest them more potential than Turkey, though I tend to like Turkey more because of their attitude. Nevertheless, I hope we'll see a more mature Belgium in 2014, at the World Cup, and have them at least leave the groups.

We shouldn't forget they're a tiny country. (Though that never stopped Holland or Uruguay)
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Post by Divine Intervention Wed 12 Oct - 7:04

I'm not overly familiar with German defence. I think your coach changes them a lot anyway, no offence. I said average to good so he played well then.
Agree on Hazard, I meant his lack of workrate by absense of impact. Lukaku did a lot more in shorter time.
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Post by McLewis Wed 12 Oct - 7:08

Divine Intervention wrote:I'm not overly familiar with German defence. I think your coach changes them a lot anyway, no offence. I said average to good so he was played well tehn.
Agree on Hazard, i meant his lack of workrate by absense of impact. Lukaku did a lot more in shorter time.

That's a major reason why Germany have been rather solid defensively.

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Post by Guest Wed 12 Oct - 7:09

German defense gives up too many goals. Only had 4 clean sheets out of the 10 Euro qualifying games. That's not good enough to be considered among the best.

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Post by VivaStPauli Wed 12 Oct - 7:09

I agree.

And yes, our defence changes a lot, since a lot of youngsters have broken into the NT while the old guard got injured, too old, or simply lost form (Westermann, Friedrich) - so now Mertesacker and Lahm are the only ones left from our usual back four, with Mertesacker not looking as sharp anymore as eh used to, there's the likes of Boateng and Badstuber from Bayern looking to get in on that, with Hummels from Dortmund arguably being one of Europes Top5 defenders already at his age, and Höwedes honestly not being far behind Hummels... It'll be interesting.

The main thing why Löw keeps shifting around the German back four is us not having a proper RB, he's been unsatisfied by our best RBs, Castro and Beck, and keeps playing our quicker CBs there, which hasn't always worked out great, though Boateng and Höwedes have looked decent there, both of them really don't offer as much going forward as Castro or Beck would.

But I guess Becks poor club form has something to do with it, even though he's captaining his team (Hoffenheim) and nobody in the world knows why Löw isn't calling up Gonzalo Castro who had a great last season with Leverkusen.

That being said, Belgiums players almost all play for good clubs as well, so quality really isn't their problem. They obviously need a better game plan and more time to gel, so maybe a new coach and some thought from the FA on how to increase chemistry. With the German NT it's just that the youth teams play the same system as the senior side, so players don't really need time to adapt. Maybe Belgium should look into something like that.

They really have a squad that's too good to go out in qualifying. It's a shame, really.
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed 12 Oct - 7:13

sportsczy wrote:German defense gives up too many goals. Only had 4 clean sheets out of the 10 Euro qualifying games. That's not good enough to be considered among the best.

The defence as a whole certainly isn't. But Germany got the players to field one of the best defences. It's a Werder Bremen like problem though. They just keep attacking, this leaves their back four exposed a lot. They press really high up the pitch, and they usually outscore opposition by a large enough margin that a single goal conceded doesn't mean much.

But still, I agree, there's something to be done. In all fairness though, Germanys defensive record isn't worse than Spains atm, and they tend to concede less in Knockouts, so let's wait for the actual tournament. I hope by then there'll be a back four that have had time to gel.

I can't blame Löw though, I really can't decide on who to play myself. I'd probably make it Lahm - Hummels - Höwedes - Castro, but Löw doesn't call up Castro, he loves Badstuber, and that's leaving out Mertesacker who's the most experienced CB as well as Boateng who's the fastest.

Spoiled by choice.
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Post by fatman123 Wed 12 Oct - 7:20

i didnt get to watch the game, but in the little time he got how would you rate lukakus performance?
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Post by Divine Intervention Wed 12 Oct - 7:24

fatman123 wrote:i didnt get to watch the game, but in the little time he got how would you rate lukakus performance?
He tried hard, created space for his teammates. Hummels ( Sir Viva) kept him from scoring but his impact was noticable.
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Post by Guest Wed 12 Oct - 7:26

Lukakau just needs to watch Dzeko play and learn from him. For a player of that size, Dzeko shows amazing skill while playing tough when needed.

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Post by BeautifulGame Wed 12 Oct - 7:32

@viva

IF Bayern continue their incredible defensive form is it really essential to breakup the Boeteng - Badstuber CB partnership for Germany.I know Hummels is easily superior to either of them but surely there is no necessary to break a CB partnership if they are performing exceptionally at club level?
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed 12 Oct - 7:35

Sure, whatever works. I can live with Badstuber + Boateng anyway, yes, Hummels might be more complete, but they're perfect together, those two. Badstuber is slow, with great anticipation, clean tackles and great distribution, as well as good set piece delivery.

Boateng is fast as hell, one of the paciest CBs out there, has decent anticipation, good technique, is great at tackling, even slide tackles and playing rough and dirty- they compliment each other really really well.

But the same would be true for Höwedes/Hummels + Boateng, Boateng is just the fastest CB we have, and that's really an asset, though Höwedes is almost as fast.

But yeah, a defensive block of Lahm/Boateng/Badstuber would be something to seriously consider, chemistry means a lot for a back four.
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Post by fatman123 Wed 12 Oct - 7:41

VivaStPauli wrote:Sure, whatever works. I can live with Badstuber + Boateng anyway, yes, Hummels might be more complete, but they're perfect together, those two. Badstuber is slow, with great anticipation, clean tackles and great distribution, as well as good set piece delivery.

Boateng is fast as hell, one of the paciest CBs out there, has decent anticipation, good technique, is great at tackling, even slide tackles and playing rough and dirty- they compliment each other really really well.

poor mans JT and carvahlo
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed 12 Oct - 7:46

Unlike JT and Carvalho those two aren't 3 seasons past it, though. :coffee:
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Post by fatman123 Wed 12 Oct - 7:52

but unlike Badstuber and Boateng JT and carvahlo have trophies to show for it banana
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed 12 Oct - 8:10

Because they're not 21 anymore, mate Very Happy
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Post by fatman123 Wed 12 Oct - 8:51

youre not making this easy for me.....
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed 12 Oct - 9:10

How did this go from a proper thread to a trollfest in 2 posts?

Oh that's right, I replied to you, my own damn fault. I apologize to anyone actually reading this. :/
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Post by Magricos Wed 12 Oct - 9:16

Why would Raul be Schalke's captain ? Howedes is a good CB though.

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Post by Sushi Master Wed 12 Oct - 9:25

I think Loew is ingnoring Castro and Beck because we all know his hardon for playing 3 CBs at the back. He's been doing it forever. Oh, except giving Trasch a chance every now and then, but we know how that turned out.

As Mueller said, Germany is very left sided. You have usually a CB in Boateng/Hoewedes at right back, which can bomb up, but are very defensively minded. Then ahead of them there's usually Mueller, who isn't your usual winger and attacks in an unorthodox way, but works his socks off always.

Now, on the other flank there's the Terminator Phillip Lahm and ahead of him God of the field, both players who work hard but can really attack if needed. Plus you have an extremely good backup in Schurrle and Reus if needed be. Goetze can also play here. Clearly there's not much of a balance.

Loew's been experimenting more with attacking football lately, but who wouldn't with all the talent available. He even played with 3 CBs yesterday after Gundogaan came on and Lahm was out. Not how Germany should play, IMO, but if it's gotten you results then you can't deny it. An extra tactical option for when going against the likes of Spain.

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Post by rwo power Wed 12 Oct - 9:50

Magricos wrote: Why would Raul be Schalke's captain ? Howedes is a good CB though.
Well, Raúl is highly respected at Schalke (and actually in all of Germany) and the coach mentioned he is like a father to the kids there (mainly Draxler, that is). If Raúl would have wanted to be captain, I bet no one would have said no. But I think from what I gather from some interviews I read, Raúl is actually happy that he doesn't need to do stuff that detracts him from just playing football, and that's why he likes to be at Schalke.
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed 12 Oct - 10:15

I don't know about the 3-CB-thing, IMHO Löw just thinks that a couple CBs are better FBs than our actual FBs, and he might be right, but he should at least give Castro and Beck another shot.
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Post by The Messiah Wed 12 Oct - 13:50

Boeteng is Germany best CB...
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed 12 Oct - 14:12

Idrisozet wrote:Boeteng is Germany best CB...

No he's not. But he's the only really pacey one, and IMHO we need that.
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Post by The Messiah Wed 12 Oct - 15:48

VivaStPauli wrote:
Idrisozet wrote:Boeteng is Germany best CB...

No he's not. But he's the only really pacey one, and IMHO we need that.

So would you say Badstuber is better, I think Boeteng is much better than Badstuber, I dont understand why manager rate Badstuber so highly.
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