Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

and just cos you come from the youth and understand the team doesn't mean you can or should play for madrid. i actually dislike that rhetoric. its that rhetoric that saw rafa benitez become our coach. we didn't sign rafa cos of his record, he had been garbage for a while now. the team signed him primarily cos he had some friends at madrid who talked up the "he coached in the youth set up and is spanish, so he must be good" argument....only for him to flop

ramos and danilo aren't good examples either. ramos first of all isn't from madrid, he's from seville, and he's been at madrid since like 05/06 definitely his approach is going to be different from danilo's who just joined the team yesterday. it's like comparing raul to someone like marcelo, when marcelo just signed for us....who's to say danilo won't develop into a solid player who can learn the ways of the club?

finally, whilst we're on youth players, arbeloa.....i'm beginning to see folks act like arbeloa's some sort of icon at madrid- helguera, solari, mcmanaman, are closer to legendary status than arbeloa. geremi and flavio concecao may not have featured much for us, but they were more reliable back ups than arbeloa- whose biggest highlight features twitter battles with a pathetic defender from the rival side who has ridden the likes of messi, villa, and xavi's coattails his whole career; his issues with casillas, his position as our club's pr staff with his media soundbites, and his affection for mourinho

you don't have to grow up at madrid to bleed for the shirt. hierro, salgado, makelele just to name a few, were not youth products. raul, yes played in the junior sides and broke records, but as a kid he started out at atleti, and he and his family grew up supporting them.....what matters is the pitch, i don't care how much a player insults other rivals to the media, if he can't play when its time to step on the pitch, or he keeps messing up, i have no appreciation for such players regardless of whether they have an alfredo di stefano poster in their house

another thing i have seen you guys talking about is being good on the ball, like its everything please stop it, kroos has been excellent without being overly fancy and i know that hurts you guys so much, that you still try to act like he is such a liability anyway.

yet a freaking useless player like flopsco should continue with team, even though 3 different managers promised to get the best of out of him, always end up benching him, because he is useless and usually slows the team down, yeah lets give him more chances cause he is such a dribbler, this is why being a sheep holds down this forum so much.

zero objectivity just butthurt agendas.

casemiro was a beast when people wanted him to bench kroos, but now that both are in the midfield, casemiro can definitely be upgraded and by who? some guy named kante ffs, rm finally have an opportunity to develop a midfielder after so long, but he isn't fancy enough like flopsco so forget him, this forum at its best .

the team doesn't need to be a watered down version of barca for me to support them.

All we need is to fix our midfield and get diversified depth (backup CF for example). That's it. We don't have a lot of problems. Most are related to trying make AMs play CM and CMs play holding mid + lack of a backup CF.

Chad is always complaining about something lol

casemiro was an upgrade on kroos in midfield because he balances the team better. Is Casemiro upgradable? yes, and not only that, having a back up DM is important. So it's about bringing depth, and potentially talent. that's why i mentioned Lass or Weigl as examples.

Kroos should stay at CM, he is doing well. Is he looking dominant at CM? i am not seeing that, maybe you are, im not. Modric is better than him, so in madrid fashion we can sign a galactico ala Pogba. Sure we could leave things as they are but to me any chance of improving personel should be considered.

The red flag for me is that we can only be effective right now against the top sides by playing very cautiously since our CBs are error-prone and our midfield can't handle the physical impact of top sides.  The simple question to me is:  What can we do so that can reasonably hope to impose our rhythm and style on every team?  There aren't better CBs out there... so that's not an option.  The only place where we can considerably improve is the midfield.   I would also like to bring a young LB that will provide an alternative to Marcelo... and that has room to improve.

Our midfield can withstand physical impact with Casemiro. I don't think midfield is a problem if we can get a ball dominant DM. I won't change anything more. Kroos is fantastic, I think he is with out any doubt best passer in our team. Modric might be better player but Kroos is 6 years younger. I'll not trade Kroos for anything other than Verrati and he is injury prone while Kroos is barely rarely injured. He can actually playmake and can be used as successor to modric.

I really don't see any reason for Pogba, not our priority anyway. He is worse passer and playmaker than both Kroos and Modric. Better dribbler and final third player probably but that reminds me of Isco who is on the bench. If CR is here then pogba will not even be allowed to crash the box which makes him pointless, I don't think he will agree to play like glorified left back.

If we want more bite from our CM we can always play isco there.

Looks like the point went over your head. Ramos is used as an example BECAUSE he is not homegrown and at times it shows. the yellows and the reds despite being captain he forgets himself too often and thankfully hasnt costed us this season... yet. how did this fly over your head tito? and that has been ongoing since he joined.

Youth players and coaches are two very different things tito. and in regards to Benitez, that was political and you know it. That trash has no business in Real Madrid. Despite being  homegrown, that idiot failed to learn the values of madridismo and it is reflected in his tactics. embarrassing to think he came from us.

Youth players regardless of their talent are always an unknown. Tarnish not Alberto Bueno for those who remember him. Very talented coming up the ranks but ended up falling short of expectations. or Morata. bright but ultimately disappointed and didnt develop as one would hope. Balboa or Soldado. many have failed. But at least they were given chances. This I want at minimum. give them the chance to fail. Because for every failure there is always the De la Reds, Carjavals, and Vazquezs. such players needed said chances. Vazquez was unproven and not talented when he left us. now returned he is moderate for what we need. Carjaval has been a revelation and can be considered elite. Took many years for Arbeloa to return being a nobody but when he returned he brought stability in defense on the right flank where previously ramos made it a glaring weakspot. A long time ago it was since the right flank was a weakspot before danilo showed up. thanks to arbeloa back then, that right spot wasnt fragile. but I guess time makes people forget.

It seems you fail to remember Arbeloa's prime but in his younger days, he was more or less just as good as carjaval right now though without the attacking quality. Defensive rock he was. He is no legend in comparison to greater players and its true he isnt that great anyways. but regards to being a professional during turbulent times, not a lot I can think of that behaved as well as Arbeloa. More of a professional than Iker and that all is all I have to say on that matter. If I go any further, it will be offtopic as mourinho is whole other can of worms as is Iker himself who is not a good example btw.

True professional on the training pitch and during a game and in behavior bar the twitter stuff.
That is why I respect the man. that and his "Club before the player" attitude. an attitude that is lacking in these current times. An attitude that is shockingly missing even with the current captain and vice captain. when that time comes, assuming Zidane is still here by then, boy will that be uncomfortable.

you forget yourself titosantill, its about the attitude. It's about the work ethic. It's about earning your place rather than using politics. Arbeloa is no longer good enough to be a starter. too old now and Carjaval is better anyways. more speed, better attacking. but in regards to training and knowing your role in the club, Arbeloa is prime example on how a player should handle himself. and for that he is a legend in his own right. but you dont appreciate that and thats fine. but you do well to remember his contributions for when he was good and how he handled himself here. exemplary stuff.

so he acts up and its only twitter banter with a rival player. when he is a backup. when its just banter. You have a problem with that? You have some very strange priorities tito. I dare not imagine how you felt about iker during the last 3 years of his madrid career.

@ chad, Benzema walking since January. maybe its because he is injured and we didnt know about it. but Benzema could do a lot more running imo. Raul regardless of any injury, always made sure the opposing defense were put to work.

First season he is walking too. Previous seasons he has been great example of what is expected of him and what is expected of a Madrid CF.
It's probably that he doesn't get enough protection. Hopefully we get a good backup cf who's name isnt bloody morata. Benz bled for the shirt just fine before january. I'm not really concerned with him. he is just hurt just dont know when it happened.

Many come to this club but have the wrong attitude. We need bleeders here. De Gea at manutd? he dont perform like someone who bleeds for his club. Manutd despite their current situation is still one of the more reputable clubs in england. I dont respect his attitude or his skills. De Gea needs to do much more before Madrid considers to bring him in. I dont want another iker situation so soon after we got rid of him for keylor who respects his role. Don't like entitled punks. Keylor thankfully is more similar to Lopez. with his work ethic and due diligence on the pitch and in the gym, we will not have to worry about him declining unlike what happened with iker. he got a good 6-8 years assuming no major injury. Goalkeeping for some of you who don't know is actually one of the best positions on a football team if wanting a long career at the top level beyond age 33. just look at buffon. look at kahn. or Van der sar. especially van der sar as he was a very late bloomer. Keylor has excellent positioning so unlike iker, he has nothing to worry about. he is better than De Gea atm so I'm really not a fan of downgrading just because the idiot this club is considering to replace keylor with long term just because he is spanish. Not a fan of that belgium keeper either.

Rather wait and see on the academy, we got the time anyways. keylor is not that old and his professionalism will ensure he will remain the top of his game for a long time. in regards to GK I am least concerned. ofc if keylor pulls an iker and gets entitled and lazy, THEN we have something to worry about.

rather put the money on midfield where we need significant investment. oh and a backup cf if no mayoral. with the way the current market stands. Midfield should be #1 priority this summer.

i mis-read, i thought you were comparing danilo to ramos, didn't see the carvajal part. i was wrong there. however, my point still stands; players should be promoted if they're good and not because they come from castilla. you want castilla players promoted? then they should either scout for better young talent or lead them to promotion into the segunda division. i have no problems with giving people opportunities because they're good. i love when i critique a youngster and they perform. people on here know i wasn't too keen on lucas, but the guy's doing well, he proved me wrong and i love that....that's the attitude the youngsters should have, to know things will be stacked against them and thus be determined to perform. if you just let any fool come and play here simply cos they're from madrid, you're sending a bad message to them....sports is the closest thing to a meritocracy in society, you play those who are good. so its up to the youth coaches to develop these guys into better players

i've said enough about arbeloa, he's  no legend. say what you want about benzema, but to put freaking arbeloa on some throne and act like benzema's a scrub is hilarious. benzema has done way more for madrid than arbeloa, i'm sorry, but its the truth. i'm not benzema's biggest fan, i'm fine if he goes or stays. but he's been a better player than arbe freakin loa at madrid. arbeloa was good his first two years. when he became terrible, he spent his time working as our pr staff and winning madrid fans over with his soundbites. on the pitch, the man has done nothing since 2011

most good players, when they lose it they want to keep playing. iker isn't the first, won't be the last. raul was the same. there was a time madridistas were really going at raul, insinuating that he was entitled and all that, just like they did to iker. it happened to figo, when luxemborgo started benching him for owen, he never spoke to the coach again....arbeloa has never been close to the level of any of those players, so ofcourse he'll be a good boy and accept sitting on the bench. i don't dislike the guy, but fans throw out terms like "legend" too loosely. a benchwarmer who wasn't even reliable is now a legend? are these the guys we r awarding that kind of status to these days? if you really think arbeloa is a legend then you can't throw punches at pepe, ramos, benzema or marcelo

as far as what we need, a lb, forward, midfielder and a cb. if the rumors of psg and cristiano are true, then the coaching staff will really need to work out how they want to construct the team as well as where the goals will come from. i don't trust bale as cristiano's heir, primarily because of his fitness, and he's no cristiano, so we'll need to see what moves can be made in the market. but the moves i mentioned above should address issues pertaining to depth. my biggest problem now is who are the guys to fill said positions? i don't want anyone from chelsea though

futbol_bill wrote:Just read in defensa central that club intends on 3 new signings that will be starters!

Pogba, Henrikh Mkhitaryan and Lewandowsky! Hun?

Henrikh is an attacking mid?.. Plays for dortmund, from Armenia.

It did say that the two mids would displace Kross.

If CR7 leaves we are in deep trouble finding a suitable goalscorer, a guy that produces +40goals a season. Other than Lewa or Auba I don't see anyone else. But knowing Perez he will push for Lewa and if that fails than Auba it is, with Hazard coming in also.

The problem is that we never fix the problem, we create a new one. What we need is a World Class Central/Def-Mid, a back up left back and a back up striker, considering key players don't leave. But the fact that we might get a transfer ban Uncle Perez will go for, Lewa/Auba/Neymar, De Gea, Pogba, Hazard, Ricardo Rodriguez, and an MVP from the Euros

I don't think Ronaldo moves this summer... next summer is likely though.

titosantill wrote:i mis-read, i thought you were comparing danilo to ramos, didn't see the carvajal part. i was wrong there. however, my point still stands; players should be promoted if they're good and not because they come from castilla. you want castilla players promoted? then they should either scout for better young talent or lead them to promotion into the segunda division. i have no problems with giving people opportunities because they're good. i love when i critique a youngster and they perform. people on here know i wasn't too keen on lucas, but the guy's doing well, he proved me wrong and i love that....that's the attitude the youngsters should have, to know things will be stacked against them and thus be determined to perform. if you just let any fool come and play here simply cos they're from madrid, you're sending a bad message to them....sports is the closest thing to a meritocracy in society, you play those who are good. so its up to the youth coaches to develop these guys into better players

i've said enough about arbeloa, he's  no legend. say what you want about benzema, but to put freaking arbeloa on some throne and act like benzema's a scrub is hilarious. benzema has done way more for madrid than arbeloa, i'm sorry, but its the truth. i'm not benzema's biggest fan, i'm fine if he goes or stays. but he's been a better player than arbe freakin loa at madrid. arbeloa was good his first two years. when he became terrible, he spent his time working as our pr staff and winning madrid fans over with his soundbites. on the pitch, the man has done nothing since 2011

most good players, when they lose it they want to keep playing. iker isn't the first, won't be the last. raul was the same. there was a time madridistas were really going at raul, insinuating that he was entitled and all that, just like they did to iker. it happened to figo, when luxemborgo started benching him for owen, he never spoke to the coach again....arbeloa has never been close to the level of any of those players, so ofcourse he'll be a good boy and accept sitting on the bench. i don't dislike the guy, but fans throw out terms like "legend" too loosely. a benchwarmer who wasn't even reliable is now a legend? are these the guys we r awarding that kind of status to these days? if you really think arbeloa is a legend then you can't throw punches at pepe, ramos, benzema or marcelo

First time I didn't quote you because I thought it wasn't serious and too many things flew over your head so I thought this was in jest. but twice now? Tito, you're smarter than this. or today is a off day for you.

Who said I rank Arbeloa in the same realm as Benz or Iker for that matter? There is such things as tiers even in legends, Tito. Do I really need to make the distinction so that you do not misunderstand again? If I were to make a tier for legends for Real Madrid it would go something like this:

Top Tier 0. Di Stefano, Raul, Gento, Puskas, etc.

Tier 1. Hierro, Zidane, Butragueno, Makelele, etc

Tier 2. Helguera, Guti, Michel Salgado, etc.

Tier 3. Ramos, Benzema, CR7, etc.

bottom tier. Arbeloa, Mahamadou Diarra, Lassana Diarra, Arjen Robben,

Everyone has their place in this historic club. Even Julien Faubert if anyone remembers that guy though for the wrong reasons. Arbeloa has done enough to make it to the bottom tier at least. Who said I thought him of similar stature to Raul who cannot be questioned.

How dare you compare iker to Raul. Raul actually did his very best to the very end. Never slacked in training, never skipped gym day. Never started anything with a coach for any reason. Raul was a true professional, role model, and a man of great honor. I don't where you were at all those years ago but back then before he left, I was one of the very who stood by the captain. I have unshakable faith in his quality. an allrounder cf who could finish, create, intelligence with movement unparalleled. I wish Benzema had the same intelligence as Raul because if he did, Benz would have become the best in the world, forget just best cf. That's how much of a Footballing Genius Raul was. Yes he declined physically but CF is one of the hardest positions to continue playing at the top level the moment you hit 30 years of age. He lost speed but he was still very much a goal threat. he was no Ronaldo luiz nazario de lima in terms of technical ability or CR7 in terms of physical prowess but he was extremely intelligent and technical gifted enough that he was always a goal threat no matter the age.

Raul's decline was not because he got lazy or entitled. Age caught up with him despite everything he did. considering he was never a physical beast like CR7 or Bale, he did very well to continue playing at the top level at his age. Don't you dare make that comparison tito. Trying to stay at the highest level being a cf is very different from a gk. Raul was not just any role model. Raul was THE role model. Raul IS Real Madrid. When I think of Real Madrid and Madridismo and the values that this club represents and should stand for. I think of Raul. We should strive for no less than how Raul would have it. For what Raul represents and what he has done for us is exactly what we must become and train for.

Then we have Iker. A guy who's won it all and it let go to his head towards the end despite having Raul to learn from. When I watched that interview where Iker told the reporter that he doesnt do gym work and relaxes at home despite diego and later keylor breathing down his neck and hasnt done so for some time. did you have any idea how furious i was when i heard that? I would have ignored it since it was iker and he won everything with us. he bled for us proper. but he was the captain when he said that. to be captain is to be infallible. the burden of the armband is immense and demands perfection. that entitlement and laziness is an embarrassment to the armband especially when it belonged to many greater legends such as Raul who took nothing for granted. who came to the training pitch and to the gym like it was his first day at Real Madrid.  He did as was expected of a proper Real Madrid Captain, a Leader who led by example. a Legend who cannot be questioned. We do not know for sure when was it that Iker took it easy. maybe it was after the world cup 2010. because the signs of decline revealed itself around 2011 for certain but when did it start i am not sure. declines are either instant or gradual. in iker's case it was gradual.

To compare lazy Iker to the workhorse that is Raul who praised Felix Magath's training regime where everyone else said he was some sort of nazi fitness coach from hell when he was at schalke is insulting. very insulting. Raul was legit infallible. everyone makes mistakes and thats only human. Raul may miss a shot or fail to pick a pass but in everything else such as training and gym work, you can never say he didnt go beyond the call of duty. Raul did his very best to the very end of his playing career to maintain his level as long as he could. Iker on the otherhand... so disappointing. especially when you think of what Iker used to be. his unceremonious exit was his own doing. Once the undisputed best gk in the world now a mixed figure in porto. In case y'all didnt know, he isnt doing too well there. a shame.

in regards to youth. wasnt mayoral a big player in the under 19 euros? iirc he had success with the int. youth setup. shouldn't he be given a chance as was morata and jese? I'm not saying we should give every youth guy we have a chance. we need to give the ones who prove themselves a chance to fail. We do have some potential kids but we cannot verify their true aptitude keeping them in the castilla. they either need to be loaned out or given a chance here. Benzema has no backup. Mayoral should have gotten plenty of minutes. He should have been given chances to see whether he was worth the trouble or a waste of time. a bit too late now but when we had the time we should have risked him.

Raul actually started a lot of crap in the locker in his later days...  it was a good idea for him to leave.  His legend had gotten larger than his play towards the end.  Iker suffered from the same thing.

And i agree with tito...  Iker is just as big a legend as Raul.  Only difference is that Real Madrid allowed Raul to leave with dignity whereas Mourinho made such a spectacle of the Iker issue that it made his exit what it ended up being eventually. He would have likely left that summer but ended up staying to try and get his dignity back...

From my interactions with Tito, he has been around a lot longer than most of us including Sports when it comes to Madrid. Only poster who is the more experienced Madridista is old man Bill but Tito has a much better memory for the more detailed stuff. So he was around during the heydays of Raul.

On that same topic, I wouldn't compare Raul's decline with Iker's. Iker really should be able to at least perform at a mid table club level, reading he is not even worth that at Porto. Raul's decline was simply due to age. His body wore out on him considering the man was playing 1st class football since 17. However, I would compare their departure as they both stayed "past their welcome". That's the honest truth about either and I don't blame them. They are both legendary footballers with pride, ego, something to prove that they still have the stuff.

Arbeloa is no way a legend of our club due to his average quality. However, the Bernabeu values heart and dedication more than skill. You'll never see our fans complain even if we lose if the players gave everything. Regarding Arbeloa's place in our memory, his antics, his passion and professionalism will always be remembered. I think that zeal put it best when we were discussing Guti a few years ago, he's a cult hero. When the likes of Pique, Xavi, Valdes and so on were throwing shit at us, he was the only one that stepped up and fought back, while Iker was more busy about the NT

@turok, in all kinds of sports, we as fans have what i identify as convenient amnesia, look at kobe, at some point, whispers were beginning to surface that he takes too many shots, he's bad for the team, him staying isn't allowing free agents come in, his shooting percentage isn't good etc then when he's retiring, everyone acts like its all gravy and nothing bad happened.

sportsczy is right, iker and raul had very similar issues, just that mou turned it into a spectacle. we all love raul as a madrid icon, but let's not pretend there wasn't a time when the man was heavily criticized, probably even worse than iker. those seasons he was finishing with less than 12 goals a season, sometimes even in single digits, people criticized his workhorse attitude, stating that it didn't help if he wasn't getting goals, and he should be on the bench. aragonez dropping him helped a lot, cos it got madrid fans to rally with him, and his form picked up....and i really like raul, the only superstars who knew their time was up at madrid (as far as i know) and bowed out harmlessly were manolo and zidane

i'm not sure i buy the lazy thing with iker. the guy's very superstitious, if an athlete has gotten where they are with certain regiments, they're bound to continue that way. i never saw the interview u speak of. and iker never looked like someone who didn't train. he just got older, lost confidence and started doing dumb shit on the pitch.....my point is, it was time for iker to go, and it was best for us that he left, to let keylor take over. but to act like raul left under very different circumstances isn't the case. for all his hardwork, around 05, many madridistas preferred for ronaldo (the original), despite being lazy and all that to stay, and raul leave, cos on the pitch , the hardwork wasn't yielding results...there were multiple games where he wasn't even getting a shot on goal (on or off target)....but we act like his story was a "happily ever after" scenario. the man built back up his confidence and form at schalke

back on topic, i didn't watch under 19 euros. i don't follow junior leagues or junior cup tournaments, mayoral should be given a chance if zidane or the youth coaches feel he is ready to play in the big time. not every kid is ready, if they have something special, whether in terms of attitude or talent, then by all means play them. but to go into a season where mayoral is our only back up, against the likes of barcelona who will probably look to build a deeper squad seems suicidal to me. there should be standards, a guy promoted because he performs at youth level, not simply because he is there

we mention raul, people forget, raul broke all the records at madrid's youth levels before valdano brought him up. maybe because there was no internet, but i don't remember hearing any hype about him prior to his debut. i only found out he had set records at the youth level after he had gone pro. and most of those records stood until portillo broke them....i have no problem promoting those kind of players, you speak on not liking players who are entitled.....promoting a guy simply cos he plays in the youth ranks whether or not he shows any sign of progress is exactly what leads to entitlement. let them make a name for themselves there first or even go on loan and perform

barca CF scores 40 goals in a season, ours, 24...

look at the number of games played Nick...  and Messi stepped aside for Suarez which CR would never do for anyone.  He's playing 15 meters lower than before.  Benz' 0.89 ratio is only behind Suarez and CR while ahead of Messi and Neymar.

Great year by Suarez though. Best CF in footy right now.

that's my point best CF in football, goals are a demonstration of that fact. How many CFs score 40 goals playing the amount of games he plays? + assists.

boy it hurts

Benz does not show as much hunger as Suarez. Yet still he has not been bad. Benz scores regularly, the obly difference is he scores one goal as opposed to 2/3 goals that Suarez and all the other CFs score. If Benz scores 1 goal against Atleti i will be happy. I could not care less about worthless hattricks against teams like Depor and co. Just score when it matters and I am happy