Re: Luis Enrique

by The Franchise Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:39 am

But you also want to believe what you want to believe, that Messi has done nothing, which may not be the case either.

I think the truth is, nobody on the outside (media included) know anything and can only make assumptions on limited knowledge or in the media's case, just make things up.

by Donuts Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:02 am

im not saying messi did absolutely nothing but to say he's the mastermind behind the new elections or luis enrique's supposedly sacking is dumb

it cant be that the board are completely retarded?
or that luis enrique is so far showing to be a flop in big games?

but anyways regardless of what happens IF messi is behind it then more power to him, it's what all the fans have been wanting no? a new board / coach?

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:04 am

What do you guys make of Stoichkov's words btw?

"Bartomeu is only there because a coward left. He caught the rebound. The only thing he understands is basketball, where he is genuinely very good. Very little of football. The fault is of everyone that voted for him.

"The youth football is a disaster. I have no idea how it works nor who works there. I think it's something unusual, that there are people that have never had anything to do with FC Barcelona are working there. They have fired a lot of people and now they're asking them to come back to solve their problem with FIFA.

"Messi and Neymar are not the guilty ones, it's the fault of the ones that gave them vacations. Everyone should be treated the same. If Luis Enrique gave them more vacation he should play him anyway, and if he gets injured he gets screwed.

"They don't know how to treat Messi. Can you name a single foreign player that has not exited through the back door? In the newspapers the first 3 pages are Messi and then Bartomeu. They're jealous of him.

"Messi's situation is concerning. It's not the first time this happens. Leo is losing another Balon d'Or because of this gang.

"It concerns me that we don't know how to sign, why we sign and whether a player is good or not. This is the most important thing."

by Katy Perry Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:26 am

Honestly, if I was a fan of a team with some of the greatest team ever and a new board/manager is now only not contributing to continue the success but also being an obstacle to it, then I'd want those same greatest of all times to have a say on it, after all it's them who play the Barca matches, which is what all the work behind is for, it's them who know what's the best way to return to success having been those who made it. I mean, no player is bigger than the club, k, but they surely are bigger than those inept manager/board.

I actually think Barca shouldnt have a coach, directors, anything. Let the players decide everything

by Donuts Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:51 am

players shouldn't decide anything..
although i do not blame them when they are being controlled by idiots.

which is why the situation is dumb.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:09 am

Katy Perry wrote:I actually think Barca shouldnt have a coach, directors, anything. Let the players decide everything

We tried that in the Roura era. It was a disaster. Players stopped taking care of themselves, stopped training as hard, we lost our edge, injuries went up, fitness was a huge problem. We lost 0-7 vs Bayern.

Yeah let's not do that again.

by futbol Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:20 am

If I believe that the players (plural, playerS, a collective decision in the dressing room) have talked, decided and come up with some sort of clever plan to get rid of the idiots at helm I would maybe have some sympathy, although it wouldn't "officially" be correct regardless. Nothing indicates this however. Xavi only recently was full of praise in an interview and explained how Lucho was responsible that he stayed and didn't leave to New York and about good relations. The team also didn't deliberately play against the coach or anything. Well, maybe Montoya had a problem but he is an irrelevant scrub. The way it's looking right now though Messi on his own just threw a fit a few days ago because he was benched and/or didn't get a decision in a training game and threatened to leave or something along those lines. As a Barca fan and for the luls I like the "Messi saving Barca off the pitch" narrative but realistically this has nothing to do with it and he's just having an ego trip. If he wants to get rid of the board why are things going on behind the scenes only now after he is benched? There was enough opportunity before for this Instagramgate-Gastrofartidis masterplan.

by Winter is Coming Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:14 am

Stoichkov's is correct, all tho Messi does have some blame, but also blame the ones who have given him this power and treated him above all the other players as well as clubs. If I or any of you were given this power at our workplaces guaranteed most of us would've taken it.

We also know Messi isn't the only player who's unhappy. Bartra puts up a goat performance against PSG and then gets benched, Ter Stegen is probably fuming he's only getting CL games, the way were headed City will dump us out and there goes his season. Bravo maybe a little happy, but I highly doubt he came just to play in the league he could've done that with RSO.

All tho I agree with fussball there was other chances, but i think this one just hit the nail on the head, league leaders drop points we go to the most difficult away match for us in a must win situation and you decided to play Montoya who has only played 3 games before this one 2 of which were in the CdR, you bench Messi/Neymar and you play a Xavi/Busi/Iniesta midfield, did he not see Confed Cup 2013? WC 2014? Bayern hammering? Or our games this season with those three?

I highly doubt he even explained to Messi/Ney why they were benched. Instead he says "It was best not to risk them"...Risk them for what?

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:19 am

He said "I thought it would be best to play those that had prepared for the match" in fairness he also admitted that in retrospect he might not have made the same decision.

The decision to bench them was fine, considering the extended vacations. The decision to award extended vacations was not fine, considering such a hard match followed. And if Lucho was going to bench the players for taking extra vacations, he should have said it from the beginning "You can have 2 extra days of vacations but if you're going to do that you're probably not going to play the first match of the year", at least there are no surprises that way.

by Winter is Coming Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:33 am

True enough, but either way I'd still play those to long break or not, especially when find out Madrid dropped points.

by Donuts Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:38 am

messi 1 year without practicing >>> pedro / munir

it's inexcusable to think we'd have a chance to win against real sociedad in their stadium with two scrubs and an out of form suarez/xavi/iniesta

by futbol Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:22 am

The Montoya decision is clearly not on him but the higher ups are forcing him to play Montoya after he announced that he would leave. If you noticed Montoya wasn't subbed off when Alves came on. Instead he moved to centerback (wtf). No way Enrique first ignores him the entire season and then when he announces that he will leave forces him into the lineup and deliberately doesn't sub him off even if it means playing him completely out of position without being forced to do that by the higher ups. Should have been so stern with Thiago and not some below par talent but I guess after losing Thiago they think they must keep all young players at all cost now to not risk losing more face.

by neuro11 Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:35 pm

Stoichkov comment holds a lot of truth. Messi playing for a poor team for a running 3 years for no reason. we fail to sign a single good player in this time still people like Zubi is on job. With Messi's age any of the top/best players would want to achieve as much team/personal awards as possible. and look what he has got in three seaasons. he has every right to be angry with this team/board etc. look at the quality of players playing around him. even those who play regular football know how much annoying it is to play with people who are far below in quality. in the end of the day, its a team game and you suffer playing like that.
Don know what tricks he played or whether he played, i think any player would have done similar if he had the power. In any case, the best thing happened is now we can dream of a bright future after June.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:57 pm

Fussball the problem is that after Alves' contract runs out we are left with Montoya and Douglas. The higher ups don't want us to only have Douglas for an entire season.

Bartra would probably bench him anyways.

by The Franchise Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:29 am

Donuts wrote:im not saying messi did absolutely nothing but to say he's the mastermind behind the new elections or luis enrique's supposedly sacking is dumb

it cant be that the board are completely retarded?
or that luis enrique is so far showing to be a flop in big games?

but anyways regardless of what happens IF messi is behind it then more power to him, it's what all the fans have been wanting no? a new board / coach?

I know that, of course thats true. But im just saying, people are believing what they want to believe regarding Messi because it suits their initial opinion, but you are too if you insist he has nothing to do with anything. We just dont know.

If Enrique goes, it obviously wont be JUST because of Messi...even if Messi made an ultimatum. Enrique alone is doing enough to have his position in danger.

But to your last point, no, if Messi is behind him..then not more power to him. He is a player, he plays...who the coach, is frankly none of his business If we wants to decide that, maybe he should quit and then run for president officially.

Note again, this is not my opinion, simply a response to your hypothetical.

by messixaviesta Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:47 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:But when a group of players is no longer able/willing what can you do, the coach is not the one playing in the pitch.

I agree. These players are used to a certain style that has become their life blood. Unfortunately that style does not work any more, at least not with the players we have now, but if the likes of Tata and Lucho try to change anything, it's very hard for them to convince people to do things their way.

Yes one would say that these players pressed well in their best days. Why not now? One reason is that their physicality is not the same as it was in those days. The other reason is that the coach and the results then were able to inspire them to put that kind of effort but now with everything around so listless the motivation levels of individuals are also much lower.

There is probably a need to build something of a new team and a very dynamic manager is needed who can convince the players of his vision. In a sense I am saying that we hope for another revolution like Guardiola 2008. In the present state it's hard to see significant improvements happening. Without new players even a new coach will find it difficult which means that we may need to look beyond this summer for rays of hope.

by messixaviesta Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:58 pm

alexjanosik wrote:We only need to kick one player out of the team.No prizes for guessing who.

I am not completely against the idea of selling Messi. For too long we have been called a one man team, a term I see as an insult even though I can understand why people are using it, and this would certainly give us a chance to be a team again.

The money we will get can help to pay off debts and build for the future.

Messi can get fresh motivation with a new challenge.

It could be a win win for all, not least the club that buys this phenomenon, on the lines of what happened when Juventus sold Zidane.

The big problem though is that it could lead to a conflict in the dressing room since many of these players have been with Messi for years and sort of worship him. I think if this is done some of the old guard will have to be moved on.

Whether Messi is sold or not, the likes of Iniesta and some others, can certainly be moved on. They'll probably benefit with a new environment and fresh challenge while we'll get a chance to rebuild the team. The transfer ban makes these things even more difficult than they already are.

by messixaviesta Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:02 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Sorry to chime in.

I'm in no way an expert on either tactical/coaching matters nor football in general lol, so consider this a layman's outsider addendum.

But I'd repeat something I said after similar 'big game' defeats of yours, like against us 2013.
Imo you simply have to somehow consider that your team is in its backbone basically still the worldbeating team of Pep, but it must be considered to be pretty much over it.

Allegedly Pep was asked about our semi thrashing of you, and he said the difference was 'motivation'.

Now all of this is hard to measure and not straightforward.

But I think you cannot underestimate the importance of motivation for playing with intensity, as you demand.
Just a tiny little bit less determination and motivation leads to just a tiny little bit less intensity, then you lose challenges, you lose momentum etc.

This can be seen at play within single games (typical examples, a team that has a high lead and then 'takes the foot off the gas' and then the other team all of a sudden is the stronger side; or our home defeat against City last December, 2:0 up after 10m, stop playing with intensity, lose the momentum, lose the game).

It can be seen within seasons (our breakin straight after the league win last season) (sorry for the selfcentered examples but these are the ones I know)

And it can be seen in the cycle of teams I think.
Fact is, your team won everything over and over again, in fantastic fashion. Lauded by all, top of the world.

Then Pep leaves, which means the end of an era by itself; plus players get older. On top of them getting older, how exactly can you expect them the same absolute height of motivation and determination, as players and personalities, as they had?

Something would have to happen, some kind of input, some kind of change up.
Maybe some might have to look for a new challenge at another club. (look at Alonso)
Maybe some just need a rest on the bench for afew weeks, and pressure from new blood, new up and coming players.
Maybe something else.

But there has been not enough new blood in your team. Who are the players REALLY challenging Busquets, Iniestas, Messis spots?
You now bought Rakitic but for the big game Xavi is again on the pitch.
Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, like 5 years ago.

Now I know this is hard since they're all absolute GOATS whose greatness will possibly not really be reached by anyone else, but at some point somethings got to give.

Because else it's no surprise you're picking your brains why that little bit of intensity is missing.

Same goes for Spain NT. It was GOAT in lockstep with Barca, using their backbone.
This Barca team is a THING OF THE PAST, no matter to which degree individually and in detail.
Del Bosque failed to realize that, and kept fielding it.
He should have banked on players from Real, Atletico etc instead of the Barca old guard.
And Barca need a new guard too.

And even if you feel the new guard is not as classy as the old (both Barca nd NT), you still need a transition.

Because motivation plays such a huge part in football.

In few other sports lower class teams can beat top teams in a cup etc, all because of motivation and intensity.

Sorry for the long post, that's meant as a global observation and not to deny any other concrete problems/solutions.

Long story short, it would have been down to meaningful squad planning impulses from the board, which failed. I don't need to tell you.
But it is hard to let go of such a good thing as you had, and because it was so good the players have of course accumulated player power.

Immense post. Made bold the line that I think is the crux of everything.

Read many years ago that football teams work in short cycles and a largely unchanged team just can't be successful for long. Have seen this happen to many clubs over the years and now it's happening to us.

by messixaviesta Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:07 pm

alexjanosik wrote:Its time to see the writing on the wall.Guy is a scrub and completely clueless.We are playing like garbage and he is doing nothing.Knows nothing of tactics and can be outcoached by any decent manager.
Sooner he is sacked and someone competent brought in the better.

Whatever little I have seen this season to my eyes we have seemed a team completely dependent on individual ability. It's all about the forwards, who often drop back wherever they like, and after that they take the ball and try to work some magic. They may sometimes combine not too badly but anything great that may come out is usually due to something exceptional from one of those three marquee players. We don't seem to be a team at all. We don't seem capable of winning as a team when it matters. If in the off match we beat one of the big boys it'll almost surely be due to some individual brilliance.

by messixaviesta Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:30 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Katy Perry wrote:I actually think Barca shouldnt have a coach, directors, anything. Let the players decide everything
We tried that in the Roura era. It was a disaster. Players stopped taking care of themselves, stopped training as hard, we lost our edge, injuries went up, fitness was a huge problem. We lost 0-7 vs Bayern.

Yeah let's not do that again.

Excellent comments

by futbol Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:37 am

Barca are the team that has conceded the fewest headed goals (1) in the Liga this season #fcblive

I've noticed this for a while now. Barca's set piece defending has improved dramatically under Lucho. Last season in March:

Barcelona are the team that concede most of their Liga goals from set pieces (48%) and corners (38%) this season #fcblive [via opta]

It was ridiculous. Still remember Martino's explanation:

Martino: "Problem at set pieces? Only solution is not to concede them... That or the players suddenly being 8-10 centimetres taller."

Don't think Rakitic and Mathieu made all the difference, neither is a definite starter, Xavi and Mascherano are still used quite a lot.

Offensively the set piece taking has also improved. Already scored 6 goals in La Liga from set play situations. The entire last season 8.

The defense in general is quite good. Bravo has very little to do. Only 1.50 saves per game. That's considerably less than Casillas (2.4) and even lower than Courtois (1.58) and Neuer (1.59). Valdes last season had to make 2.31 saves. Deserves credit for this.

by neuro11 Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:02 pm

2 win out of 2 vs one of the best defensive/physical team in the world.... :coffee:

Lucho >>>> Tata bounce

by adamdar Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:03 pm

messixaviesta wrote:

The big problem though is that it could lead to a conflict in the dressing room since many of these players have been with Messi for years and sort of worship him. I think if this is done some of the old guard will have to be moved on.

Agree with this. If Messi goes Neymar and Suarez will kill each other. Iniesta and Xavi will lose their power to command (eventually). If Neymar or Suarez becomes main star of the team Pique and others will not listen to them or worship them. There will be fights over free kicks and many many things

If Messi goes other older barca dudes also must go. Otherwise we will see new super stars vs old stars war

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:20 pm

AS wrote:What has changed at Barca? Have you talked amongst yourselves to bring Barca forward?

Some truths have been told to improve the situation. There were some frictions between Leo and the mister. They are moments that every team goes through at some point during the season. The good thing is that the manager was able to manage the tension well and everything has come back to normal. It helped that the victories came at this moment and that has helped us a lot too.

You speak of tensions. Were they strong? What were they, exactly?

Above all it was during a training at the beginning of the month. Just after the return from the vacations. Suddenly, because of a foul not called by the coach in a training match, Messi got his wires crossed and there were frictions between the two. The things that must be said were said. Luis Enrique went to speak with Leo after in the changing room and everything was fixed. I repeat, this is something that happens in every team, but since it happened at Barca it got a lot of attention and was blown out of proportion.

http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2015/01/29/primera/1422543377_104157.html?id_externo_promo=canchallena-dsp-as

Mathieu pretty much confirms that the crisis started with a disagreement over a foul that LE did not call on Messi Laughing

by windkick Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:42 am

All that he had to do is keep a set 11 and the players would gel. That's exactly what he's done since the Messi bust up and we have been on a curb stomping roll. First half of the season he kept rotating EVERY single game, and the players weren't responding to it.

by Cruijf Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:39 am

It's not just that windkick. There's a visible change in the motivation of the entire team, most notably Messi. Don't think I've seen the team play with such intensity since Pep, or in rare isolated matches like when you overturned our 2-0 lead a couple years back. That has to come back to Enrique; as clueless as he may have seemed he's gotten the team fired up.

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