What to do about Luis Enrique?

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:00 am

Has the latest result changed your mind about him?
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Post by Winter is Coming Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:57 am

My mind has always been the same about him tbh.

I'm still willing to let him slide, but if we some how don't win a title then he should be gone.
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Post by Doc Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:17 am

From an outside perspective (while trying to be as open minded as possible), if Lucho wins La Liga, I don't think there would be any serious need to replace him. There is, however, a serious need to address the lack of proper replacements to keep the front 3 fresh for the season and if one finds that the current players are good enough, then Lucho needs to adjust how he time manages his players.

I think I was very commendable on his efforts last season in keeping his squad as fresh as possible but I guess the dynamic changed. If he fails to win La Liga, he would (and should) be fired. You don't blow such a lead at the final hurdle of the season and not be reprimanded properly.



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Post by Kick Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:09 am

No one has ever won CL back to back, did you guys expect to do it or something?

He is doing a fine job, no point in discussing sacking him.

I agree with Doc though, you need a 4th player to add to MSN.
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Post by futbol Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:34 am

Doc wrote:If he fails to win La Liga, he would (and should) be fired. You don't blow such a lead at the final hurdle of the season and not be reprimanded properly.


He wouldn't be fired. Maybe he'd ask to leave by himself but the club wouldn't sack him. This isn't Madrid, buddy. We don't fire treble winning managers after 1 unsuccessful (very big if) season.

We were tremendously unlucky with the schedule. Literally more than half the team (Bravo, Alves, Mascherano, Neymar, Messi, Suarez) went to the other side of the world to play official and competitive games and immediately after returning had to face Real Madrid (who were saving themselves for this game all season after the 0-4, Ronaldo tracking Alba rofl), Atletico Madrid (twice) and Real Sociedad away (which is an automatic loss no matter what). A different schedule, some La Liga fodder teams after the intl. break instead of Real, Atletico and Real Sociedad, and the situation would look very different now. The tactics that have worked the past 1 1/2 years haven't suddenly stopped working after about 4 games so there is no need to change the manager.

There are some minor flaws and a few bigger potential problems becoming apparent but none of them have anything to do with the coaching staff.

Team has no depth. If Vermaelen, Douglas, Bartra, Munir etc. can't be trusted, what is the point of having them in the squad at all?

Alba needs to be sold ASAP.

Neymar is not serious. He went to Brazil to visit his sister's birthday party in the middle of the season. After the intl. break he did not return immediately to Barca but visited a friend's party. Apparently he keeps posting Snapchats in the middle of the night before a Clasico. This is not a serious player, this is your typical Brazilian party animal who thinks after 3 months of great form he's already reached the top of the world. You can't change these type of characters and for that alone I personally would cash in if PSG want him so badly but that's just my opinion. € 190M is a whole lot of money and can buy a lot of players to rebuild/rejuvenate the squad.

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Post by Doc Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:18 am

You would know better on how Barcelona handles their business but from my own personal belief, just don't see how Lucho can still be around IF his team blows such a commanding lead so late in the campaign. However, that is a bridge that not only needs to be crossed, hasn't even been built yet so technicalities I shall not get into.

Agree on the rest minus the quip about Madrid saving themselves for that match -_- and of course, your total disregard for your own opinion on the mentioned teams that were "easy wins" not too long ago Proud
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Post by windkick Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:52 am

Doc wrote:From an outside perspective (while trying to be as open minded as possible), if Lucho wins La Liga, I don't think there would be any serious need to replace him. There is, however, a serious need to address the lack of proper replacements to keep the front 3 fresh for the season and if one finds that the current players are good enough, then Lucho needs to adjust how he time manages his players.

I think I was very commendable on his efforts last season in keeping his squad as fresh as possible but I guess the dynamic changed. If he fails to win La Liga, he would (and should) be fired. You don't blow such a lead at the final hurdle of the season and not be reprimanded properly.





I agree with what Doc said in this post.

That said, the simple fact there isn't a hot and up and coming manager out there for us to replace Lucho, I would say means that in all likely hood we will keep Lucho around at least one more season to see how he does regardless of how we finish the season. If anything, it might make the board realize that the squad is tired and needs reinforcements in order to prevent the start 11 from getting burned out when it matters the most.

I will say, I've never been a fan of Lucho (as I'm sure regular posters are well aware), as I've never rated him highly nor do I care for any of the players we have been linked with since his arrival. That said, he did win us a good amount of trophies and to sack him over something like this (I mean who's kidding who, retaining the UCL is the hardest thing ever) just seems harsh. He definitely needs to not blow the league though or his ass will definitely be on thin ice
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Post by CM Pep Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:53 am

I think he should get a 3rd season regardless. He's built the team very well around MSN, and being in this position if good enough for me after a treble season.

I want to see his capacity in 2 issues: tactics & motivation.

I will directly draw parallels to Pep in this. When we won the treble under Pep, it was a different brand of football. But he recognized immediately the need to shake things up the next season (signing Ibra & then playing Messi in the center).

It didn't work to the extent he hoped. He changed it again in the next season: Messi false 9, signing of Villa. Agreed he got too hipster in the season after that, but he was always attempting to be one step ahead of everyone.

I don't care too much for the Madrid & Sociedad defeats tactically. If MSN were on form & not tired in those games, we probably would have won. But this Atleti game was a different tactical setup imo. And I expect to see more of this coming up, just like how most teams started PTB tactics after the 08/09 season.

Now most teams trying to do this will be found out, because Busquets can handle the normal opposition. But from quarters of CL and beyond, and some matches in La Liga, we are going to see this trend continue.

For me, LE needs to figure out how to counter this. After Xavi leaving, we don't have anyone who can connect the defense to attack in the flawless manner that he used to. How does LE cope up with this? Does he even acknowledge this problem? Does he instruct Rakitic to change his game? Can Rakitic change his game? Do we groom Denis Suarez or Halilovic for this role? Very interesting to see how this will work out.

The second thing is motivation, which we will find out with th rest of this season. After the set of results that we have had, he needs to boost the morale ASAP. And beyond this season too, can he keep the motivation up? Pique, Masche, Alves, Busquets, Iniesta & Messi have won it all with the club on many occasions. They form the spine of our team and he needs to keep them motivated or successfully replace some of them. Pep managed to do that till his 3rd season.

We'll find out if there's more to LE in this & the upcoming season. Hopefully there is.
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Post by Lucifer Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:20 am

Let me get this straight, we didn't win treble because of LE we did it because MSN performed and were well supported by others. We lost not because of LE, we did because MSN didn't perform nor did they get enough support from others especially Inesta really disappointed with that guy. Anyway if MSN cannot give you UCL then none can. Maybe next time.

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Post by CM Pep Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:25 am

True to an extent. I will say that the support system created to make the full of MSN was done by LE.

The way they (MSN) position themselves on counters, the runs they make, the workhorse CM to maximize midfield turnovers, all of this I would credit to LE. Now if this amounts to being 'good enough' is a matter of perspective.

For those who wanted to see the next evolution of Cruyffian football, they will be disappointed (though also happy with the trophy haul). Those just wanting to see us finally counter PTB teams - like me - will be happy. And a treble certainly gets anyone happy.
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Post by Valkyrja Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:32 am

Get him one of this

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Post by Art Morte Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:59 am

I don't think LE has done anything wrong per se. When you've got the attacking trio that Barca have, you pretty much leave them to do their thing. You don't need to come up with genius tactics, imo, players as good as that trio are artists that need very little instructions. It just didn't happen against Atletico. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. Doesn't have to mean that a change is immediately needed. I don't think any other manager would make MSN play any differently and that's what your game is all about in the end.
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Post by Valkyrja Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:31 am

futbol wrote:We were tremendously unlucky with the schedule. Literally more than half the team (Bravo, Alves, Mascherano, Neymar, Messi, Suarez) went to the other side of the world to play official and competitive games and immediately after returning had to face Real Madrid (who were saving themselves for this game all season after the 0-4, Ronaldo tracking Alba rofl), Atletico Madrid (twice) and Real Sociedad away (which is an automatic loss no matter what). A different schedule, some La Liga fodder teams after the intl. break instead of Real, Atletico and Real Sociedad, and the situation would look very different now. The tactics that have worked the past 1 1/2 years haven't suddenly stopped working after about 4 games so there is no need to change the manager.


futbol wrote:Very good draw. Would have prefered Bayern, playing against same league teams is a bit boring, but overall I'm happy we always draw proper teams and not garbage like Wolfsburgo or Benfica. Makes for good viewing for the fans. When it was 6-0 against Getafe last week after not even an hour I couldn't be bothered to watch beyond 60 minutes and turned off after key players got substituted. No one cares about such onesided encounters, especially not in the CHAMPIONS League. It also helps the team to keep playing against tough opponents to get better. Doesn't turn into a culture shock like Bayern playing against 3th division level opponents (everyone in Bundesliga apart from Dortmund) and then suddenly facing elite teams in Europe.

Next games:

Villarreal (away)
Real Madrid (home)
Atletico Madrid (home)
Real Sociedad (away)
Atletico Madrid (away)
Valencia (home)

Now that's how a proper champion's schedule looks like.

I predict easy 6 out of 6 victories.


No hard feelings. Easy 2 out of 6 victories is enough taking into consideration the pretty hard schedule
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Post by eelir Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:00 am

Although i think he had a wrong strategy since the Vilareal game, we should not go into adventure mode and sack him. He was very good even this season. I give him another season regardless of what happens now as keep the motivation after treble is a really hard task!
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Post by Kebab Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:44 am

International break is the the main reason. MSN which is the creating and scoring force of team flied home and came back with nostalgic feelings and tired.

Being tired was ok. But it caused loses and mental problems. At the end it was tired and mentally down Barcelona which faced Atletico yesterday.

Ideal option would be to rest MSN in el clasico and rotate them against Sociedad. Enrique cant do it, he has no authority. Before he had the balls to rotate neymar and suarez, now he cant do it after they got so much hype.
Can any coach in the world do it? If not then no use to sack Enrique

Yeah MSN was not the sole reason defense conceded many goals, but MSN always covered it up, this time they didnt
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:24 pm

Im not so sure if its just the international break that has resulted in the teams level dropping so much. I really felt we've dipped for some time now, we've been outplayed by numerous teams even prior to the break. I still feel this season we've had MSN on fire, especially some Suarez magic in where some games we didnt create a lot, but his one or two moves scored the goals for us.

Tactics wise, Im not feeling so confident, where we get outnumbered in midfield, with MEssi often conserving energy, Suarez and Neymar usually staying up front instead of tracking back. With Alves aging, Turan still not really gelling, etc. We face so many oppositions that are all different and figuring ways to counter us successfully now, we need to keep evolving in order to stay on top. We used to completely boss the midfield, now we so often dont.

I dont think selling any one player would solve the situation, and Im not sure what it is, but we need to improve this summer somehow, especially to find a way to strengthen our midfield.
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Post by CBarca Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:55 pm

windkick wrote:
Doc wrote:From an outside perspective (while trying to be as open minded as possible), if Lucho wins La Liga, I don't think there would be any serious need to replace him. There is, however, a serious need to address the lack of proper replacements to keep the front 3 fresh for the season and if one finds that the current players are good enough, then Lucho needs to adjust how he time manages his players.

I think I was very commendable on his efforts last season in keeping his squad as fresh as possible but I guess the dynamic changed. If he fails to win La Liga, he would (and should) be fired. You don't blow such a lead at the final hurdle of the season and not be reprimanded properly.





I agree with what Doc said in this post.

That said, the simple fact there isn't a hot and up and coming manager out there for us to replace Lucho, I would say means that in all likely hood we will keep Lucho around at least one more season to see how he does regardless of how we finish the season. If anything, it might make the board realize that the squad is tired and needs reinforcements in order to prevent the start 11 from getting burned out when it matters the most.

I will say, I've never been a fan of Lucho (as I'm sure regular posters are well aware), as I've never rated him highly nor do I care for any of the players we have been linked with since his arrival. That said, he did win us a good amount of trophies and to sack him over something like this (I mean who's kidding who, retaining the UCL is the hardest thing ever) just seems harsh. He definitely needs to not blow the league though or his ass will definitely be on thin ice


Pretty much agree with these posts.

I probably wouldn't mind getting rid of him if I thought that we had a chance at getting a new, very good manager from somewhere...but that's not really possible. To sack him for how this season has gone, even if we end trophyless would also be a bit harsh I think
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Post by alexjanosik Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:17 pm

I am not the biggest Enrique fan but I dont think he deserves the sack. I have even felt he has evolved a bit from the hoofball to Suarez tactic.
Definitely think he deserves to stay atleast one more reason. That said I do wish he has the guts to go to the president and demand that Messi be sold. But he wont as that is the easiest way to get himself fired. Enrique is a smart man and surely realizes that Messi is a liability and hampers the team. But he also realizes that at Barca, Messi comes before everybody. So he will keep his mouth shut. Or he will go the Pep way and bow out on his own terms(seeing the writing on the wall before everybody else).

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Post by LeBéninois Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:51 pm

He has to stay .

the priority should be to get rid of players who are not useful ( mostly defenders ) and to get a very good CB (why not Marquinhos ?) and imo go all out for Pogba. Messi should stop go back upfront a play as real striker ideally, it's not always useful when he drops back. Anyways, no big deal. Let's win the 2 titles left and it would be a great season.
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Post by futbol Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:48 am

Doc wrote:You would know better on how Barcelona handles their business but from my own personal belief, just don't see how Lucho can still be around IF his team blows such a commanding lead so late in the campaign. However, that is a bridge that not only needs to be crossed, hasn't even been built yet so technicalities I shall not get into.


This board wanted to keep Tata after he won nothing, Tata quit on his own, so no one is sacking a coach who won a treble and went 39 games unbeaten and has the highest win percentage in Barca coaching history, no matter what happens in the next 6 games. I'm 100 % sure of that. Yeah, blowing a big lead wouldn't be pretty at all but the problems are obvious right now and they have little to do with the coaching staff.

The positive of getting knocked out of the CL is that there won't be any mid week games anymore for Barca. So team should be fine physically for the remaining 6 league games + Cup final to do a domestic double and then watch Zindrid getting trounced by Bayern on the TV that valk proposed. That euphoria after beating physically dead Barca and 3-2-ing 9th place Bundesliga team. rofl Mehdrid fans. Proud

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Post by Doc Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:31 am

Zindred. Really. You're not the tinniest bit of ashamed for that?! Also, you can't weasel your way out this one man, you massively jinxed your own team and would be properly reminded of such. Because you're my friend (:

Spoiler:
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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:58 pm

I think we are also forgetting the fact that he is a hardcore Barca man, I believe he will continue to give his best to Barca. I dont know if there is that much of a difference in the end in terms of trophies and results, but I just love him as he is a real Cule is that the right word? I mean after Xavi and Pep, etc., where are we going to find such a big Barca man to replace. I donty want to become like Real and just get whatever has the biggest name or won the mosty trophies to come in. LE apart from what we see on the pitch I think deserves more patience and hopefully can last a longer period of time. It may sound strange but I think also important.
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Post by Donuts Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:56 pm

being a big barca fan is just one of those things fans like but doesn't really matter.
I'd like luis enrique to stay, and give him another summer to buy and change the team, not too drastically but atleast add more depth, next season should be less congested without the cursed club world cup

we for the most part played amazing this year just had two weeks of bad form.
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Post by BarcaLearning Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:42 am

After a few days on letting it all sink in, I think we should go on to win the league and cup double, and that would be a VERY good season. I mean it hurts to get knocked out in QF by Atletico again, and I hope the team recovers and improves for the next season vs them since they are really a rival to us every year now, so thats really important. But to expect the treble in a row, its just too high expectations despite the way we have played well this season overall.

I mean a treble and than a double, how can u not be satisfied Smile exiting the CL surely helps us to focus on the double now with the other two Madrid clubs surely having to focus on the CL more. Of course we need to improve our game immediately but we should be able to do it.
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Post by CM Pep Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:00 am

alexjanosik wrote:I am not the biggest Enrique fan but I dont think he deserves the sack. I have even felt he has evolved a bit from the hoofball to Suarez tactic.
Definitely think he deserves to stay atleast one more reason. That said I do wish he has the guts to go to the president and demand that Messi be sold. But he wont as that is the easiest way to get himself fired. Enrique is a smart man and surely realizes that Messi is a liability and hampers the team. But he also realizes that at Barca, Messi comes before everybody. So he will keep his mouth shut. Or he will go the Pep way and bow out on his own terms(seeing the writing on the wall before everybody else).


For argument's sake, what's the best case scenario out of this?

If you're Enrique, you obviously can't sell Messi BUT you still want to succeed at the club. How do you 'counteract' Messi's 'behavior'?
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