Re: If not Martino, whom?

by BarcaLearning Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:44 pm

MaraVilla wrote:
Fußball wrote:Zubizarreta (sports director): "I really believe in Bartra, he'll be a great centre back when he's 27. He'll be one of the best." [esport3]

Our CB signing this summer.

Some more gems:

Zubizarreta: “If we review the teams of recent years and focus on the center backs, we see that the number isn't higher than three.”

Zubizarreta : "At Wembley we won the Champions League with Piqué and Mascherano as CBs. Then no one claimed that another CB is required."

Wtf, so its seems like if this guy isnt sacked we wont be getting a new CB ever?

lol what a joke.

by The Franchise Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:30 pm

Adit wrote:I wouldn't appoint klopp if I was rossel for various reasons.

1.Klopp said a few months ago that he would be a tennis fan if he grew up watching Barcelona play lol... shows how much he values cryffian principles.

2.His teams are pure counter attacking teams. They struggle to break down parked buses. Aren't you having the same problem with Martino?

3. Pressing is integral part of his tactics and every single player need to contribute to it. I just can't see the likes of Messi, Neymar etc forming a successful pressing team. It is easier on bvb because those youngsters would do anything he asks.. Can we expect the same from superstars?

4. do anyone think Borrusia injury list is just a coincidence? His team runs the most in a year. Every single player runs 13 km per game. Bvb's injury list is directly proportional to klopps tactics.

Meh, dunno if I agree.

1. That's just him being funny. He is a smart guy, he is fully aware of the positives of the style. He has his own way (which again, im not exactly enamoured with) but I think your reading a bit far into it.

2. We, like all teams, will always struggle vs parked bus..its hard. Its not Martino's fault (he isnt helping mind you), but again, we are not Dortmund. Different players..the players make the game, not the coach.

3. Dont lump Neymar in with Messi, he tries...he cant track back, horrible at that, but he shows willingness to press forward. There is only one player who flat out refuses to press consistently (for whatever reason) and another (Cesc) who is too immobile too.

4. That's not exactly correlation. You could be correct..however, did Bilbao players suffer with injuries because of Bielsa's equally heavy running idea? And what about Arsenal..not a particularly high distance covering team, but injuries everywhere.

What you say is not inaccurate, but I dont know if I agree with level of relevance.

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:00 pm

Klopp is also known to have said "What Guardiola did is to take the best offensive system in the world and add to that the best defensive system in the world" referring to possession football being a defensive tactic, which even after all these years is something that escapes many people. He clearly respects the system if not admires it.

Anyways I'm in the "Klopp won't break his contract" camp.

Dani why don't you like Rodgers?

by jibers Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:02 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Klopp is also known to have said "What Guardiola did is to take the best offensive system in the world and add to that the best defensive system in the world" referring to possession football being a defensive tactic, which even after all these years is something that escapes many people. He clearly respects the system if not admires it.

Anyways I'm in the "Klopp won't break his contract" camp.

It's pretty obvious. Thats the reason Guardiola has long surpassed Cruyff as a coach.

by REWB Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:22 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Klopp is also known to have said "What Guardiola did is to take the best offensive system in the world and add to that the best defensive system in the world" referring to possession football being a defensive tactic, which even after all these years is something that escapes many people. He clearly respects the system if not admires it.

Anyways I'm in the "Klopp won't break his contract" camp.

Dani why don't you like Rodgers?

rodgers is irish, he would really find it difficult to fit in. plus, with a name like rodger you just cant demand respect at a place like barca. at least martinez would have a chance, benton would have no chance.

by The Franchise Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:25 am

I have no problem with Rodgers, I like him (not his transfers though), but I dont know why he would leave Liverpool for us..as strange as that should sound.

Also, I just dont see us making that kind of move. You think Zubi is really paying attention to what he is doing at Pool or how they play?

Not that I think how they play is actually something which he could apply to us, Pool arent playing the possession football I think Rodgers originally had in mind anyway.

Dunno, just dont see it happening...though I dont see Klopp nor Martinez happening either.

BTW, AVB? He just got a job with Zenit.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:26 am

Oh I just put down the names the catalan media complex was spouting at the time. Odds are they have no clue who they want either (other than Klopp).

by larisano_is_back Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:06 am

Hi all, especially to those who remember me.

Out of that list put up, it is pretty difficult to find anyone.

I originally had hopes that Martino would do a good job, although, the fact that he wasn't much of a household name and is an outsider after all, meant that he is going to be judged much harder than Tito, for example.

That said; I think in light of all the problems hitting us, this summer might be a great time(Transfer ban or no ban) to hit the reset button somewhat and build again.

It doesn't mean a squad overhaul in a huge way, but some of these guys have certainly lost some motivation in terms of being consistently top notch and giving their all.

As much of a fan of Lionel Messi as I have been and continue to be, it is clear, that he is now hitting that point where, whilst he still has the ability to do the unthinkable, that 'little child' desire isn't there anymore.
I don't quite know the reason why, but I think Messi needs to be reeled in and morphed into more of an AMF player, especially if Neymar is ever going to find his feet properly.
I'd also love if we were to get Luis Suarez before Madrid can,tbh.

Building the team around False 9 Leo Messi, has to be phased out slowly. I have no doubt that he is and has been a better player than C.Ronaldo, and the records speak for themselves, Individual and Teamwise.

This summer, the Barcelona club has to sit and work out a plan for the future, and realise that it is time for some sort of change in direction for the club.
That Bus-Parking stuff is not easy to counter for any team in the world, but the fact that we approach that particular tactic the same way each time it comes against us, is cause for concern such that as a fan, every time, any decent team puts together a good defensive performance, we seem to have very little clue as to how to break it down, no matter which players we have on the field.

Oh, and it is high time, we as fans realise that what Pep's Team brought to us, was a kind of joy, very few fans of any team will ever get to enjoy....sadly, those times are in the past, and we can always look fondly at it. This team just doesn't have the desire and passion that the Pep Team had, unfortunately.

Visca El Barca! Keep Calm and We can Still WIN La Liga Fellow Cules!!!!

by alexjanosik Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:59 am

The Franchise wrote:I have no problem with Rodgers, I like him (not his transfers though), but I dont know why he would leave Liverpool for us..as strange as that should sound.

Also, I just dont see us making that kind of move. You think Zubi is really paying attention to what he is doing at Pool or how they play?

Not that I think how they play is actually something which he could apply to us, Pool arent playing the possession football I think Rodgers originally had in mind anyway.

Dunno, just dont see it happening...though I dont see Klopp nor Martinez happening either.

BTW, AVB? He just got a job with Zenit.

I was abou to ask you why not Rodgers.I had said after the season started and the first doubts about Martino surfaced,that Rodgers was my first choice followed by Martinez and thats still the case.
I think Rodgers just fits our style the best.I have been watching him for the past 3 years.Granted he is not exactly playing possession football at Liverpool right now but thats because he doesnt have the players for it and has adapted his style to them.Even now they still pass out from the back and try to pass as much as possible.I think with us,he would have the perfect players to play the possession game which is what he really enjoys.With Liverpool he has shown that he can adapt his tactics to the players and win.He is good tactically and can play multiple formations.Keeps tinkering and switching which is what Pep did too.
I wouldnt mind Martinez either.Great manager and I think he has all the tools to succeed.The respect thing might be an issue though.

Dont like Klopp.His style is counter attacking which is kind of the anti thesis of our style.Also wouldnt he have the same problems as Martino if he came and tried to play possession?Like Martino he doesnt believe in it and therefore wont be fully committed to the style.

by jibers Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:05 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I have no problem with Rodgers, I like him (not his transfers though), but I dont know why he would leave Liverpool for us..as strange as that should sound.

Also, I just dont see us making that kind of move. You think Zubi is really paying attention to what he is doing at Pool or how they play?

Not that I think how they play is actually something which he could apply to us, Pool arent playing the possession football I think Rodgers originally had in mind anyway.

Dunno, just dont see it happening...though I dont see Klopp nor Martinez happening either.

BTW, AVB? He just got a job with Zenit.

I was abou to ask you why not Rodgers.I had said after the season started and the first doubts about Martino surfaced,that Rodgers was my first choice followed by Martinez and thats still the case.
I think Rodgers just fits our style the best.I have been watching him for the past 3 years.Granted he is not exactly playing possession football at Liverpool right now but thats because he doesnt have the players for it and has adapted his style to them.Even now they still pass out from the back and try to pass as much as possible.I think with us,he would have the perfect players to play the possession game which is what he really enjoys.With Liverpool he has shown that he can adapt his tactics to the players and win.He is good tactically and can play multiple formations.Keeps tinkering and switching which is what Pep did too.
I wouldnt mind Martinez either.Great manager and I think he has all the tools to succeed.The respect thing might be an issue though.

Dont like Klopp.His style is counter attacking which is kind of the anti thesis of our style.Also wouldnt he have the same problems as Martino if he came and tried to play possession?Like Martino he doesnt believe in it and therefore wont be fully committed to the style.

Possession is not your stye. It was Peps style and he is gone. Why are you so intent on keeping that same style? It's baffling. Any manager that comes will never play like you guys did in the past. They don't have Peps genius or the players approaching their peak. I agree with the rodgers sentiment. I wanted him to take over after SAF. Instead we got Moyenaccio.

by Adit Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:09 pm

They still has the players to play possession football not counter attacking. I see the same problem with Klopp, a manger who believes in counter attacking principles forced to play with possession oriented players. He just like Martino will play neither counter attacking nor possession football and you will not master at neither as a result, unless a massive player overhaul is happening which i cant see this summer.

by jibers Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:12 pm

Adit wrote:They still has the players to play possession football not counter attacking. I see the same problem with Klopp, a manger who believes in counter attacking principles forced to play with possession oriented players. He just like Martino will play neither counter attacking nor possession football and you will not master at neither as a result, unless a massive player overhaul is happening which i cant see this summer.

But thats the problem. These played the way Pep wanted them and thats the way Pep designed the team. No other manager will be able to do the same. Blame That weasel Rosell and the worst sporting director in modern football history, Zubi for that. Hiring Martino knowing his style and without refreshing the sqquad was an embarrassment. Now with the transfer ban Barcelona are stuck.

by futbol Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:30 pm

Possession football of the Pep days is dead with Xavi being 34 now. Possession football with Cesc leading the midfield? Nah.

by jibers Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:33 pm

Fußball wrote:Possession football of the Pep days is dead with Xavi being 34 now. Possession football with Cesc leading the midfield? Nah.

Thats my point. Posession football doesn't exist and is Peps thing. more like Guardiola football. Tito played a poverty version without the tactcical nous of Pepito and Tata is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

by The Franchise Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:41 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I have no problem with Rodgers, I like him (not his transfers though), but I dont know why he would leave Liverpool for us..as strange as that should sound.

Also, I just dont see us making that kind of move. You think Zubi is really paying attention to what he is doing at Pool or how they play?

Not that I think how they play is actually something which he could apply to us, Pool arent playing the possession football I think Rodgers originally had in mind anyway.

Dunno, just dont see it happening...though I dont see Klopp nor Martinez happening either.

BTW, AVB? He just got a job with Zenit.

I was abou to ask you why not Rodgers.I had said after the season started and the first doubts about Martino surfaced,that Rodgers was my first choice followed by Martinez and thats still the case.
I think Rodgers just fits our style the best.I have been watching him for the past 3 years.Granted he is not exactly playing possession football at Liverpool right now but thats because he doesnt have the players for it and has adapted his style to them.Even now they still pass out from the back and try to pass as much as possible.I think with us,he would have the perfect players to play the possession game which is what he really enjoys.With Liverpool he has shown that he can adapt his tactics to the players and win.He is good tactically and can play multiple formations.Keeps tinkering and switching which is what Pep did too.
I wouldnt mind Martinez either.Great manager and I think he has all the tools to succeed.The respect thing might be an issue though.

Dont like Klopp.His style is counter attacking which is kind of the anti thesis of our style.Also wouldnt he have the same problems as Martino if he came and tried to play possession?Like Martino he doesnt believe in it and therefore wont be fully committed to the style.

Indeed, like I said, have no problems with Rodgers, like the guy and what he does. Just dont see it happening.

I agree about Kloop, the offensive side to his game is not what intrests me at all. Its his character, personality, attitude and defensive game which intrests me. I think he would bring a needed dose of no-sense..this naivety of playing small players and midfielders in defence will stop, the midfield would be more athletic, the forwards would run and I do believe if anyone didnt want to conform/didnt have the ability to play to his idea's, they wouldnt play.

by Onyx Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:13 pm

Possession is just as effective as any other style. Changing style doesn't guarantee success. They just basically need to evolve the current style.

It's clear Barca's possession is nowhere near on the level of what it was under Pep, same with the pressing and defending. They need to hope the next manager can get close to what Pep did in terms of that.

Against PTB teams they need to vary the approach. There's no point passing about and doing the same thing when you aren't getting anywhere. They need to practice counter-attacks, need players with good long shots and maybe get a backup striker in who's good at heading.

Overall it's about getting the right balance in terms of being versatile and dynamic, which is why the next manager will need to be tactically good and astute.

That along with the obvious improvements such as getting a few defenders in, a new GK if Valdes isn't staying and a technical CM at least.

Fabregas should never start. He scores and assists, however that doesn't matter. He's just too slow.

Also finally the players need the motivation to win again. Messi right now seems to be lacking it.

by The Franchise Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:45 pm

Park the bus teams dont bother me, we can only that was the problem with the team.

Its much much worse. We cant handle any physical pressure to the backline, both when the opponant has or doesnt have the ball.

When teams apply high pressure we look totally shocked that its coming and react very poor to it and lose many balls. Even when it gets into the midfield, even Xavi and Busquets, because we are not tactically positioned well, making the field big, even they turn the ball over.

Then in defence, obviously we cant handle pace, strength, aerial ability to anything physical really.

And its worse that we want to attack how we do because it leads to more turnovers and then we are relying on more distance being covered by players who lack the physical profile for it.

There is no better crisis coach than Radomir Antic, I think we should seriously consider it before it really is a crisis.

by futbol Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:55 pm

Meh, don't need to put up with his antics.

Had to make this joke.

Continue.

by harhar11 Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:08 pm

Adit wrote:They still has the players to play possession football not counter attacking. I see the same problem with Klopp, a manger who believes in counter attacking principles forced to play with possession oriented players. He just like Martino will play neither counter attacking nor possession football and you will not master at neither as a result, unless a massive player overhaul is happening which i cant see this summer.

I agree with this. Also, in the Clasico in Camp nou, in the 2nd half there was a time were Barça somewhat gave the ball to Real Madrid, not much, but somewhat. And damn, he was called a coward and was criticized for it. How would the Camp Nou react to Klopps counter-attacking system? I know that I wouldn't like it...

by alexjanosik Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:44 pm

The Franchise wrote:Park the bus teams dont bother me, we can only that was the problem with the team.

Its much much worse. We cant handle any physical pressure to the backline, both when the opponant has or doesnt have the ball.

When teams apply high pressure we look totally shocked that its coming and react very poor to it and lose many balls. Even when it gets into the midfield, even Xavi and Busquets, because we are not tactically positioned well, making the field big, even they turn the ball over.

Then in defence, obviously we cant handle pace, strength, aerial ability to anything physical really.

And its worse that we want to attack how we do because it leads to more turnovers and then we are relying on more distance being covered by players who lack the physical profile for it.

There is no better crisis coach than Radomir Antic, I think we should seriously consider it before it really is a crisis.

You suggest Antic.I can do one better.I suggest Van Gaal.If a no nonsense coach who can whip players into shape is what you need,then LVG is the man.After all he did drop his pants in front of the Bayern players to show who was the boss.I know one particular prima donna who will be whipped into shape by LVG.
I am just joking btw.LVG is a lunatic.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:09 pm

That's what Luca Toni claimed, at least, that Aloysius Paulus Maria vG dropped his pants to show our players he has balls..

But even if you did get Van Gaal, it wouldn't be for long, as Cruyff would come personally to kill everyone involved.

by Casciavit Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:27 pm

You need a coach with lots of personality, who can get the players motivated again.

Jurgen Klopp immediately comes to mind, but as far as I know he isn't a big fan of possession football. I mean when Martino wanted to change things up and do what he wanted, he was told off by Xavi.

I remember Klopp saying in an interview a while back that he hates it if a player tries to get involved with the team tactics. And he would bench a player if they ever did. It's easier to say that when you're the coach of a young team like BVB, but if you're coaching champions at Barca, will you really be able to stick to your word?

by The Franchise Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:01 am

No, he wouldnt be able to.

And its not like Xavi by all accounts demanded Martino play different...he apperently said "the team supports what he is doing but he feels like X, Y and Z is being lost".

When a senior players come to you in that way, its only arrogant and stupid not to listen...and on top of that, bench him.

by larisano_is_back Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:01 am

I am now more sure than ever that we need a coaching change, and it has either be someone who can inspire these players again after the World Cup(especially if the Transfer ban isn't overturned) or someone who can be more strict in their approach.

LVG and Bielsa are the extreme choices. Guys I think that might well make huge differences in the first season, but by the midpoint of the 2nd season, the team would probably self-destruct for some reason or the other.

Atm, I don't really have anyone in mind. Maybe we could take a chance and try for Diego Simeone perhaps???

I always wanted Pellegrini to take over from Pep,tho. Just seemed like a coach who could possibly tweak our tactics and approach to games enough to keep it all fresh going forward for the next 3-4 years....but now Man City have him.

by jibers Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:24 am

Paco Jimez

by Art Morte Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:40 am

If Martino leaves after this season and if your transfer ban for the next two windows is upheld, the new manager, whoever he is, is going to find it a little bit difficult, too. That's what I reckon, anyway.

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