Arsenal 2 - 2 Swansea City: Battling for that 4th Place Trophy

Raptorgunner wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:Less than 10 minutes and Kallstrom's passing, vision and technique is way better than Arteta's

Guess you haven't seen him for Lyon or Sweden.

Arq, its sad to say this, but that's how shit Arteta is now, cant even pass backwards like he used to do. Even Denilson would look good compare to Arteta.  

You know why literally all of your players (including Oezil) cannot create at the moment? It's called Il criss italiano. In Italia, or even in Cesare Prandelli's Italia, the #1 mistake the Italians make is playing far too many playmakers, most of them especially wide just to implement them. Versus Brazil in the Confed Cup, Prandelli's team were being massacred until he removed the 6 play makers he had on field and then resounded to a comeback.

Arsenal at times play Arteta, Rosicky, Cazorla and Oezil when fit. When you have too many playmakers in a team, without the runners to compliment them; you have a team who is only open to receiving passes in a continual cycle. Where is the creativity? Playmakers of any creative mould are trained to receive passes and move into areas to further receive passes, yet in Arsenal there is no one bar Giroud who is making direct runs into the box, the receive and pass cycle does not fit in the pace of the premier league given there is a lack of cohesion and vision beyond Arsenal's passing cycle. Only exception is Rosicky who I've said all season has been your best creative player, simply because he thinks twice as fast as the rest and actually has the team perform in a tempo above Arsenal's actual propensity. Arteta whether fitted in a pivot or the sole man ahead of the defence in a 4-1-4-1 will not succeed given all the defensive responsibility that is hindering his offensive operations. Why has he dropped in quality when it comes to even his tactical role? Well he is quite obviously out of form for one. I cannot excuse him of being out of his natural tangent given that he has performed wonderfully for Arsenal many times in this role and against more big teams than you may think. Yet like Riccardo Montolivo of Milan (who also is defensively a liability in a pivot), Arteta in this particular role will succeed when the team plays well. If it does not, his role will be downsized yet if Arsenal are in unison, he is their tactically most important player.

Until Wenger doesn't understand that more playmakers does not equal more creativity, the team will continue to look ponderous and slow and without direction. Keep in mind, the ones who compliment the creative players are the ones who provide the vectors, playmakers provide only the blueprint.

Arquitescu wrote:

Raptorgunner wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:Less than 10 minutes and Kallstrom's passing, vision and technique is way better than Arteta's

Guess you haven't seen him for Lyon or Sweden.

Arq, its sad to say this, but that's how shit Arteta is now, cant even pass backwards like he used to do. Even Denilson would look good compare to Arteta.  

You know why literally all of your players (including Oezil) cannot create at the moment? It's called Il criss italiano. In Italia, or even in Cesare Prandelli's Italia, the #1 mistake the Italians make is playing far too many playmakers, most of them especially wide just to implement them. Versus Brazil in the Confed Cup, Prandelli's team were being massacred until he removed the 6 play makers he had on field and then resounded to a comeback.

Arsenal at times play Arteta, Rosicky, Cazorla and Oezil when fit. When you have too many playmakers in a team, without the runners to compliment them; you have a team who is only open to receiving passes in a continual cycle. Where is the creativity? Playmakers of any creative mould are trained to receive passes and move into areas to further receive passes, yet in Arsenal there is no one bar Giroud who is making direct runs into the box, the receive and pass cycle does not fit in the pace of the premier league given there is a lack of cohesion and vision beyond Arsenal's passing cycle. Only exception is Rosicky who I've said all season has been your best creative player, simply because he thinks twice as fast as the rest and actually has the team perform in a tempo above Arsenal's actual propensity. Arteta whether fitted in a pivot or the sole man ahead of the defence in a 4-1-4-1 will not succeed given all the defensive responsibility that is hindering his offensive operations. Why has he dropped in quality when it comes to even his tactical role? Well he is quite obviously out of form for one. I cannot excuse him of being out of his natural tangent given that he has performed wonderfully for Arsenal many times in this role and against more big teams than you may think. Yet like Riccardo Montolivo of Milan (who also is defensively a liability in a pivot), Arteta in this particular role will succeed when the team plays well. If it does not, his role will be downsized yet if Arsenal are in unison, he is their tactically most important player.

Until Wenger doesn't understand that more playmakers does not equal more creativity, the team will continue to look ponderous and slow and without direction. Keep in mind, the ones who compliment the creative players are the ones who provide the vectors, playmakers provide only the blueprint.

That was a good read and agree with everything said.

For you, Raptor.

MJGunner wrote:

For you, Raptor.

From YouTube, the same page as above.
MrMarkus1921
LOOK!! the fact that Wenger started 2 defensive midfielders vs Swansea at home and 1 defensive midfielder vs Chelsea away... Is enough to say , tactically, Wenger has lost the plot... .. 
-------------------
"Give him one more transfer window" How many times have people said this?
I like Moh, it gives me some hope of what he says, but I am sorry I just dont trust Wenger anymore. We are becoming a joke, and the sooner we deal with Wenger loss the sooner we can bounce back.

Not sure how much more time we can give Wenger? it would be nice for him to win the FA cup and say goodbye. The board will want him to stay but the right thing to do is walk away and let a younger coach take over. I am not scared of what is happening at United, I know we can do better.

I'm also weary about giving Wenger "one more transfer window" when the last few have been devoid of any sort of plan or direction. How will this next window be any different? Optimistically, you can say that he'll finally realise that he needs to significantly strengthen, but on the other hand how many times down the years have we said he'll do this, but then he doesn't?

There comes a point where you've got to draw the line.

MJGunner wrote:

For you, Raptor.

Well it's not about transfer alone, with players we have, there is absolutely no excuse for those score lines, unlucky or not. Wenger is tactically inept & naive against big teams and it completely shown this season. He never freaking changed his game plan, tactic, squad selection. So many glaring mistakes that he completely ignored and being stubborn the way he is, he will never adjust.

The thing with Wenger is we all want him to succeed, prove everyone wrong, win titles, big games and end his Arsenal career on a high after 9 years of hard work... but deep down we all know it is not going to happen, no matter how much money we have now.

I feel bad for even saying this

I always find it quite embarrassing how Arsenal fans react on defeats or "setbacks".

The majority actually never have anything constructive to say, just the tired opinion of Wenger out or the players aren't good enough. When there is no real basis on either front. Another tired cliché is the lack of Vieira argument, I heard Paul Scholes's comments absolute nonsense. Most football fans tend to follow the path of least resistance.

The real problem is the centralisation of power the lack of corporate governance for a better term. AW is basically CEO and manager, what has Gazidas done on the pitch in the mould of David Dein signing Sol Campbell? That's just one example of where the struggles lie, Arsenal have an incredibly stable platform which by fans and pundits is well overlooked, small tweaks here and there will make the real difference. Another thing that could be introduced is psychometric testing on the players, fans always complain of lack of mentality and poor decision making why not get to the root cause of why a player makes a certain decision on the field, pretty sure Real Madrid implore this method (might be wrong on that). The "old & white" boardroom and backroom staff create an air of stagnation.

If you (Arsenal fans) knew that we wouldn't win this or that why get all vaggy about it. Instead of sitting on twitter, at the ground or behind a stream, why not say for example become a physio, become a pioneer in the field and cure/prevent the injury crisis, or become a scout for the club.

Melts like the AST should give up the day job and become UEFA A Licence coaches, as they appear to know so much, it's beyond a joke now. If someone was telling me how to do my job with no experience or qualification I'd tell them to F off.

Things like that make me respect the likes of Liverpool fans who believe despite constant derision from other fans that they can achieve against the odds, majority of Arsenal fans are 9/10 negative. It's almost like they enjoy getting off on being right when we lose constantly gagging for the "I told you so".

I'm not going to get het up about this result, I'll at least see how the season will play out. As said before I'm surprised we got this far I felt we should have beaten Swansea but again there's still a lot to play for. Hell two of City, Liverpool or Chelsea will end up with no trophies. Yet their fans will support the team right until the end of the season.

Finally, when AW does leave probably at the end of the season, don't know about yourselves but I'm not so sure the board will make the right decision. Let's not forget David Dein bought in Stan Krokene, this board will have to make the biggest decision in Arsenal's history minus Dein and I'm not sure that they may succeed in this.

GoonerJay29 wrote:I'm also weary about giving Wenger "one more transfer window" when the last few have been devoid of any sort of plan or direction. How will this next window be any different? Optimistically, you can say that he'll finally realise that he needs to significantly strengthen, but on the other hand how many times down the years have we said he'll do this, but then he doesn't?

There comes a point where you've got to draw the line.

As Moh said, he's had two transfer windows with appropriate funds, now with the Puma deal coming in you sense that it's different now.

Wenger DID have the funds to sign Higuain and cocked it up because he wouldn't pay what Real Madrid wanted. Will it be any different this summer? Will he pay more than €40m for the only world class forward who will possibly be avaiable in Diego Costa? Will Wenger replace the squad players who will leave properly? Will Wenger sign a defensive midfielder after having signed Flamini? I can't see it, myself.

urbaNRoots wrote:Wenger DID have the funds to sign Higuain and cocked it up because he wouldn't pay what Real Madrid wanted. Will it be any different this summer? Will he pay more than €40m for the only world class forward who will possibly be avaiable in Diego Costa? Will Wenger replace the squad players who will leave properly? Will Wenger sign a defensive midfielder after having signed Flamini? I can't see it, myself.

If we are lucky he would sign a decent striker, but I cant see him spending huge money. His excuse will be we have a huge squad, and he believes this quad is special and has total belief in them to win the CL,EPL and the FA cup.

Wenger has been fooling us for so long, there is no way he will change now, he is too stubborn to change. He wants to prove everyone wrong and he will do it till the end.

Pellegrini said, “Of course, there are changes. It’s very important at the beginning of the season to have the squad that you think that you will need for the whole year. The year is too long, we have to play so many matches that it’s very important to have important strikers and, fortunately, we have it.”

What did Wenger do? gambled the whole season with one striker. Even when he had the chance to buy or even loan a striker he bought an injured player. You know I am hard on Giroud and so are many more fans, but its all Wengers fault. If Wenger bought another striker to help out Giroud, I dont think there would have been much complain about Giroud.

Point is he's had ONE summer window with these funds. After all of his work, how fair would it be to let another manager come in, spend the money Wenger's been accruing and to reap the benefits of his work. That's cruel no matter which way you cut it.

If we don't win the FA Cup and finish top 4 he'll leave, don't worry. But if we achieve those two things then he deserves at least one more window, then judge him and slander him. But as I said, one summer window and a January window where hardly anyone was available is hardly fair.

Every season we keep saying" in Wenger we trust" but nothing better comes out of it , we seem satisfied with our position every season.

No one is bigger than a football club.

Is not about spending anymore, Wenger tactics are outdated and cant motivate the players.
Our season.
Top of the League
Top of the Leagu
Top of the Leag
Top of the Lea
Top of the Le
Top of the L
Top of
Top
Top 4 Trophy  

I stand by what I said. No one is happy to be fighting for 4th and

Point is he's had ONE summer window with these funds. After all of his work, how fair would it be to let another manager come in, spend the money Wenger's been accruing and to reap the benefits of his work. That's cruel no matter which way you cut it.

If we don't win the FA Cup and finish top 4 he'll leave, don't worry. But if we achieve those two things then he deserves at least one more window, then judge him and slander him. But as I said, one summer window and a January window where hardly anyone was available is hardly fair.

Nice work, Jay.

I've stayed away from the forums since the game, simply because I was so angry. I've cancelled appearances on podcasts, because of my anger.

This was not acceptable. Fighting for 4th place despite being top for over half the season is not acceptable.

The fact is, the battle for 4th looks very, very worrying. Everton are bang in form and play us at home next week, and have that game in hand.

Lose to City and Everton, and Everton win at Fulham on Sunday, and next weekend, we'll be level on points with them and they'll have a game in hand. Its very scary.

Everton still have to face Man City, Man Utd (I know) and Southampton away, so I'm hopeful they'll drop points too, but it's going to be squeaky bum time - not to mention Spurs are lingering around just behind them.

4th place and FA Cup is the ONLY acceptable outcome this season.