Lost of motivation, Pep's Barca and the current Bayern

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Post by BarcaLearning Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:25 am

Thought I may start a new topic focusing on this point. I was looking back at some teams that dominate and sort of had an era. Those mostly last for a few years only. There are many factors, but the main it it seems is the lost of that motivation when u first start and after u win the first time, second time, and third time, with the same coach and people, eventually u lose that bit and other teams catch up. Even Pep said it himself with the same voices, same strats, same things everyday for too long, it loses its effects eventually.

I seen that with Real Madrid in the late 90s and early 2000s, Barca in the 2004-2007 approx., then probably Pep's Barca.

For this Bayern its great they still look amazing and hungry. But I just wonder if Heynches stayed and not Pep coming in, would they still be doing as well as they are now? They very likely could retain the CL. You cant help but feel its harder without the manager change to do that.

Whenever I think of this, the more it makes managers like Fergie that much more great in this aspect. He can keep his teams motivated every damn season. But even he always needed to chop and change every few years.

Whats your opinion?
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Post by Onyx Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:54 pm

Thing with Pep is his Barca side were one of the best ever, which is why they had high expectations and had to win every season. That wasn't the case for a lot of others teams, which meant if they went without a trophy, the following season they would be motivated to win it.


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Post by Onyx Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:58 pm

Pep Guardiola has spoken of his decision to leave Barcelona, confirming the pressure of expectation became too much.

In an interview quoted by Super Deportes, Guardiola has repeated what he previously revealed - that he felt he could no longer motivate the Barca squad.

Guardiola added that the realisation came when Barca were beaten by Chelsea in the Champions League.

“There were many moments of sadness and that was one of them,” Guardiola told Autopista magazine.

“We were much better than our opponents but we conceded an unnecessary goal and before we knew it, we were out.

“It was a great loss to me. I thought I couldn’t go back and set up the team again.

“If you can no longer motivate the players, as a Coach, you know that the time has come to leave.”

The former midfielder went on to say that the success Barca enjoyed in his tenure eventually pushed him out the door.

“We were incredibly successful - 14 trophies in four years. But that can also weigh you down.

“I was having difficulty motivating myself as well as the team, having won everything as a player and a Coach. And the team was finding it increasingly difficult.

“The sabbatical year in New York was important to me, my family and to my old team.”

Guardiola also acknowledged that the first approach from Bayern Munich came long before he left Barca, in July 2011.

“In the Audi Cup I spoke to Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and Uli Hoeness about my future.

“The challenge for me now is to work with a new team and continue the success of Jupp Heynckes.”

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Post by The_Badger Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:07 pm

Surely the mark of a great manager is being able to pick them up and motivate them further after a period of great success.

Or failing that rebuild the team and ship out those that can't be motivated, like Fergie did.

I can't help but feel there's more to him leaving Barca than he lets on here.

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Post by BarcaLearning Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:01 pm

I dont blame him at all... it was his first job as a manager for real, and hes young. Most likely the team would not have kept their motivation and level as he said himself there if he stayed and tried to do Fergie style. To leave after winning so much, he will gain more experience, pretty sure if he continues to manage for a long time he will some day come back to maange Barca.

What about Bayern? If Heynckes stayed, do you think they would be playing this good consistently still? I doubt it. Pep coming in with fresh ideas certainly helped the team keep their levels up after winning the treble last season I would think. Will be interesting to see if Bayern continue to be successful under him, how long can he keep the success, ie. the same problem of keeping motivation of the team after winning a lot for a few years etc.?
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Post by Winter is Coming Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:20 pm

Pep departure was more then him being tired, or loss of motivation, etc. His brother claimed around October is 2012 he started learning German and he would even have his instructor with him every where he'd go, clearly it didn't seem he had much of a break. The man hardly takes a break and dedicates a lot to his work. In the start of Tito first season rumour emerged that Pep wanted to clear a few players out, which included Pique, Alves, Villa and Cesc. Rosell supposedly agreed selling Alves and Villa, but not Pique and Cesc, for obvious reasons. The past few season including Pep last season everyone was on Alves, Cesc, Pique throats with their performances. Alves has picked up and tries a lot more, but the same can't be said about the other two. All tho I do feel Pique should get a actually proper CB pairing to see what he's got instead of DM as a partner, as for Cesc he's a great player, but not what we need false 9? We have Messi who's better, he can't play Xavi, or Iniesta position. I believe Pep knew this hence wanted to sell him and give Thiago the role, but unfortunately didn't happen.

Pep was usually the one who fixed his mistakes. When we won the treble, the next season we still played great, but got eliminated in the CdR/CL, but won the league next season he made some more changes and if it wan't for Madrid would've won another treble and 6 titles in CY. Pep's 11 of 14 titles came from two seasons. I'm sure he had an idea of what needed to be done in the end on 2011-2012 season, which obviously wasn't good and he was stopped from making that change. He packed his bags and off he went. Its quite clearly him and Rosell didn't look eye to eye either.
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Post by BarcaLearning Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:16 pm

Winter, a lot of the that sounds like rumours and speculation though. For me, players like Alves, Cesc always give it their best attitude and effort, rarely do I see them being lazy or whatever.

It coudl well be Pep just saying unable to motivate the team anymore is the reason, but there must be other factors which could include some of what u said too (especially about Rosell) that he just wont ever say in public. I remember he played a motivation video for the tema prior to their first CL final? Imagine doing that playing the video again or doing something similar again in the second CL final or needing to boost that hunger in the nth final, it would just not have the same effect I think Razz

Interesting though if he started learning German well b4 his departure with plan to manage Bayern eventually.... smart and I dont blame him.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:35 pm

October 2012 was when he was having his break, and probably had already been in serious contact with us about the job.
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Post by Onyx Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:53 pm

Bayern Munich Coach Pep Guardiola says there was a big fuss around Camp Nou every time he left Lionel Messi out of his starting line-up.

The former Barcelona boss also answered questions about his lowest moments during his time in charge of the Catalan giants.

“With a lot of stars in the line-up, like we have now at Bayern Munich or at my previous team Barcelona, you can encounter situations in which having so many can be destructive,” Guardiola told Autopista.es.

“Everyone wants to play, but you can only put 11 players out on the pitch at any one time.

“Every time I left Messi on the bench there was a fuss.

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Post by danyjr Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:06 pm

So how did Fergie do it for 26 years?  hmm 
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:08 pm

Tbf Fergie only won 2 CLs which is the same as what Pep won.

Not saying Fergie doesn't deserve great credit but the dangling carrot was almost always there.
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Post by Le Samourai Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:13 pm

Watching things fall apart without Fergie makes me re-think Fergie.

I thought for sure he built something that would last, not financially, but mentality wise. Watching the loss of belief in United players without him makes me think he didn't develop their charachter as much as he just pushed their buttons when neccessary.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:29 pm

That's what happens when you go from one of the most positive managers in PL history to one of the most dour and negative Laughing
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Post by Onyx Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:48 pm

Mourinho would have played negative, but he would have still been more successful. Problem is Moyes has no experience of managing a top club. He was appointed for the long term as I said before, which means Man Utd will be hoping he improves within the next few seasons.


Last edited by Yohan Modric on Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by The_Badger Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:02 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Tbf Fergie only won 2 CLs which is the same as what Pep won.

Not saying Fergie doesn't deserve great credit but the dangling carrot was almost always there.

Fergie knew when the time was right to let certain stars leave and when to build a new team around others.

He managed to motivate them after the historic treble in 1999 as that is what the truly great managers do.

I'm convinced there was more to Pep leaving Barca then simply being a case of not being up to the task of motivating his team to further success, and I suspect Rosell is behind it.

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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:27 am

Yohan Modric wrote:Mourinho would have played negative, but he would have still been more successful. Problem is Moyes has no experience of managing a top club. He was appointed for the long term as I said before, which means Man Utd will be hoping he improves within the next few seasons.

Hope so, keep him for another few seasons!  :bow:  rofl 

The_Badger wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Tbf Fergie only won 2 CLs which is the same as what Pep won.

Not saying Fergie doesn't deserve great credit but the dangling carrot was almost always there.

Fergie knew when the time was right to let certain stars leave and when to build a new team around others.

He managed to motivate them after the historic treble in 1999 as that is what the truly great managers do.

I'm convinced there was more to Pep leaving Barca then simply being a case of not being up to the task of motivating his team to further success, and I suspect Rosell is behind it.

Thats right about Fergie. He never let any player get bigger than him, and sold those big players as soon as he knew its not working. Chop and change in order to keep thigns fresh. Although Rooney got his way which is rare to see for Fergie I think  eco smile I think having players like Giggs and Scholes also helped him a lot. These kind of players just never lose hunger.
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