Re: Are Spanish teams outside of the BIG 3 underatted

by zigra Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:29 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Arsenal are just Arsenal, everyone knows they're superior to Atletico Madrid.

Don't know what it's like somewhere else but in Germany the league is underrated imo (and has been for a long time).

by Onyx Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:04 pm

Arquitescu wrote:Rather disappointing that people continue to name Valencia who deserve nothing of praise before Pizzi took them over while La Real and Villarreal are continued to be ignored. Wake up, its not 2009. Look at the table.

MT wrote:Arsenal are just Arsenal, everyone knows they're superior to Atletico Madrid.

Everyone? And superior on the basis of what?

If the majority of football fans were asked which team is superior, Arsenal or Atletico, the answer would be Arsenal. Not just talking about this season, but the last 15-20 years or so. There's no doubt Arsenal are the bigger name.

by chad4401 Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:12 pm

MT that rubbish arsenal hasn't done anything in the last 10 years to say they are better than atleti, being more popular globally makes you the better team now? Laughing

by Lex Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:17 pm

Only difference between Arsenal and Atleti right now is the strikeforce, Atleti are superior in that department I'll admit, but it's not a gaping chasm of a gap

Why are people acting like we're some newly promoted team, fresh off the local park, who've never kicked a ball around? Laughing

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:20 pm

Lex wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Highburied wrote:Big 3 ? LOL
Is big 3 any less ridiculous than the "big 7" the English media has come up with?
Yes, way, way, way, way more ridiculous. Bastion Booger level of ridiculous

Right. Thanks for the convincing argument, I'm a convert. Atletico won 3 cups in the last 2 years, they are still in the race for the league (even though they won't win), and are favorites to make the CL eigths. If Everton and Moyes United are part of some big 7,even though none of them are in a position to win anything then Atleti are part of a big 3.

by Lex Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:24 pm

When has anyone here talked about the "big 7" seriously? Everyone takes the piss out of it Laughing

Certain people here love to whine that the British media has brainwashed everyone, yet it seems the only ones brainwashed by the British media are certain whiny people

by Lex Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:26 pm

There is no top 7. Top 4? Definitely. Top 5? Maybe. Top 6? It would be a stretch, but why not

But not a top 7. Stop taking everything The Sun has to publish to heart

by Lupi Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:35 pm

they just got overrated now , before they were properly rated . As Valencia for example comparing to its own achievements is merely the same or even half way to it . Villarreal as recently promoted team has still work to do to get claims like that

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:22 pm

Lex wrote:There is no top 7. Top 4? Definitely. Top 5? Maybe. Top 6? It would be a stretch, but why not

But not a top 7.

Right. Which was my original point. Also anything beyond a top 4 in england right now is a stretch.

by Arquitecto Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:12 am

Yohan Modric wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:Rather disappointing that people continue to name Valencia who deserve nothing of praise before Pizzi took them over while La Real and Villarreal are continued to be ignored. Wake up, its not 2009. Look at the table.

MT wrote:Arsenal are just Arsenal, everyone knows they're superior to Atletico Madrid.

Everyone? And superior on the basis of what?

If the majority of football fans were asked which team is superior, Arsenal or Atletico, the answer would be Arsenal. Not just talking about this season, but the last 15-20 years or so. There's no doubt Arsenal are the bigger name.

The last 15-20 years does not dictate who is currently superior nor does having a bigger name justify your point, especially when Atletico have won 2 cups in the last 3 years while Arsenal have come short within the dreaded time-frame.

by guest_07 Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:14 am

people in this world must follow what english media said

for example, if they said arsenal a big team, we must not argue on it

if they did not mentioned atletico madrid as big team, we must agree on it whether they won 1 or 10 trophies

long live english media

by Onyx Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:54 pm

Arquitescu wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:Rather disappointing that people continue to name Valencia who deserve nothing of praise before Pizzi took them over while La Real and Villarreal are continued to be ignored. Wake up, its not 2009. Look at the table.

Everyone? And superior on the basis of what?

If the majority of football fans were asked which team is superior, Arsenal or Atletico, the answer would be Arsenal. Not just talking about this season, but the last 15-20 years or so. There's no doubt Arsenal are the bigger name.

The last 15-20 years does not dictate who is currently superior nor does having a bigger name justify your point, especially when Atletico have won 2 cups in the last 3 years while Arsenal have come short within the dreaded time-frame.

Generally though, majority would say Arsenal. To overall rank a team, I don't think one season is enough, so 10-15 years is a decent time frame. If any of the Arsenal sides of the past 10-15 years were matched up alongside Atletico's, Arsenal would have the superior team. Atletico winning the Europa League pretty much shows what level they're/were at.

Also what makes Atletico better than Arsenal?

by guest_07 Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:00 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:

If the majority of football fans were asked which team is superior, Arsenal or Atletico, the answer would be Arsenal. Not just talking about this season, but the last 15-20 years or so. There's no doubt Arsenal are the bigger name.

The last 15-20 years does not dictate who is currently superior nor does having a bigger name justify your point, especially when Atletico have won 2 cups in the last 3 years while Arsenal have come short within the dreaded time-frame.

Generally though, majority would say Arsenal. To overall rank a team, I don't think one season is enough, so 10-15 years is a decent time frame. If any of the Arsenal sides of the past 10-15 years were matched up alongside Atletico's, Arsenal would have the superior team. Atletico winning the Europa League pretty much shows what level they're/were at.

Also what makes Atletico better than Arsenal?

what makes atletico not a big club? not enough trophies?

by S Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:02 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Also what makes Atletico better than Arsenal?

He dint exactly suggest that Atletico are better than Arsenal but was just questioning your claim of Arsenal being 'superior' to Atleti.

Both teams are pretty much on par with each other for me.

by Onyx Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:12 pm

It's not just about any trophies though. Winning the Europa League doesn't make you a top team, nor does winning the Copa del Rey. For a top team it's the league or CL and that's something Atletico haven't won since forever. Fair enough nor have Arsenal, but they have been better than Atletico. If this is the logic used, then we can also say Napoli/Schalke etc are all on par/better than Arsenal. Except they aren't. You just know when one team is better than another team.

Atletico are never mentioned alongside other top teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, Bayern etc and it's because they're not a top team. They're just not in that tier. It's only this year that they're actually pushing to become a top team.

by Dnmac4 Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:31 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:It's not just about any trophies though. Winning the Europa League doesn't make you a top team, nor does winning the Copa del Rey. For a top team it's the league or CL and that's something Atletico haven't won since forever. Fair enough nor have Arsenal, but they have been better than Atletico. If this is the logic used, then we can also say Napoli/Schalke etc are all on par/better than Arsenal. Except they aren't. You just know when one team is better than another team.

Atletico are never mentioned alongside other top teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, Bayern etc and it's because they're not a top team. They're just not in that tier. It's only this year that they're actually pushing to become a top team.

Please tell me how Arsenal have been better than Atletico recently. This is one of the least informed statements I have seen on here in a long time. Arsenal haven't won any trophy at all in almost 10 years and they even have a BS extra trophy in the to play for every year in the Carling Cup. What is it because Arsenal get out of the knockout round of the CL usually and than lose in the next round or two? Wow, Arsenal have not been any bigger of a threat to win the Champions League than Atletico recently.

Who are you to say winning the Copa Del Rey doesn't make you a big team? They beat a Jose Mourinho coached Real Madrid in the Copa Del Rey, it doesn't get much bigger than that. They also beat Chelsea, no scratch that kicked there face in 4-1 who just won the Champions League who you consider a "Top" team winning a "meaningful competition". And they beat Inter who had just won a treble in competition I guess pass as "big competitions" to you.

Who the hell else do you want them to beat? They have beaten top English, Spanish and Italian sides in Cup Finals not to mention the teams on the way to getting to those games.

Please inform me when Arsenal has done any of that recently. They lose to relegated teams in cup finals.

And to those saying it's not a big 3 in Spain, just LOL. Spain may have 3 teams in the next round of the CL while the EPL have 0. But we can call the EPL a "big 4" but La Liga fans can't say we have a "big 3". Get off of your high horse. I bet if you asked any coach in the Champions League none of them want to draw Atletico.

by Onyx Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:23 pm

How have Atletico been better than Arsenal this season? For me they have been equal. I was talking overall though, not just this season.

Portsmouth and Wigan have won the FA Cup, doesn't make them better than Arsenal. Shakhtar have won the UEFA Cup, doesn't mean they're better than Arsenal. The only trophies that should matter for a top club are the league and the CL. When was the last time Atletico won that? In fact when was the last time they were close to winning the CL or league? Which club has had a bigger chance of winning the league/CL in the past 10-15 years? Arsenal or Atletico? Clearly Arsenal because they are the superior team. Atletico have been nothing more than an upper midtable club when compared to top teams.

I'll admit this season there is a big 3 in Spain, but looking at the last 10-15 years it's mostly been a two team league. I won't be surprised if Atletico go back how they were before when Costa leaves.

by Highburied Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:57 pm

S wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Also what makes Atletico better than Arsenal?

He dint exactly suggest that Atletico are better than Arsenal but was just questioning your claim of Arsenal being 'superior' to Atleti.

Both teams are pretty much on par with each other for me.

When you have no facts, you are clueless.

by RealGunner Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:26 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:How have Atletico been better than Arsenal this season? For me they have been equal. I was talking overall though, not just this season.

Portsmouth and Wigan have won the FA Cup, doesn't make them better than Arsenal. Shakhtar have won the UEFA Cup, doesn't mean they're better than Arsenal. The only trophies that should matter for a top club are the league and the CL. When was the last time Atletico won that? In fact when was the last time they were close to winning the CL or league? Which club has had a bigger chance of winning the league/CL in the past 10-15 years? Arsenal or Atletico? Clearly Arsenal because they are the superior team. Atletico have been nothing more than an upper midtable club when compared to top teams.

I'll admit this season there is a big 3 in Spain, but looking at the last 10-15 years it's mostly been a two team league. I won't be surprised if Atletico go back how they were before when Costa leaves.

Fantastic post as usual.

by Hapless_Hans Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:55 pm

it's a shame Arsenal won't make it to the quarters so we could a have a heads up between them to resolve that question

by S Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:04 am

Highburied wrote:
S wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Also what makes Atletico better than Arsenal?

He dint exactly suggest that Atletico are better than Arsenal but was just questioning your claim of Arsenal being 'superior' to Atleti.

Both teams are pretty much on par with each other for me.

When you have no facts, you are clueless.

Are Spanish teams outside of the BIG 3 underatted - Page 2 Cry

by Doc Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:13 pm

Since the thread provided all the evidence I needed, yes, outside of Real, Barcelona and Atletico, the rest are underrated.

Similarly in the same light English talent is underrated.

by FilthyLuca Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:18 pm

Arquitescu wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:Rather disappointing that people continue to name Valencia who deserve nothing of praise before Pizzi took them over while La Real and Villarreal are continued to be ignored. Wake up, its not 2009. Look at the table.

Everyone? And superior on the basis of what?

If the majority of football fans were asked which team is superior, Arsenal or Atletico, the answer would be Arsenal. Not just talking about this season, but the last 15-20 years or so. There's no doubt Arsenal are the bigger name.

The last 15-20 years does not dictate who is currently superior nor does having a bigger name justify your point, especially when Atletico have won 2 cups in the last 3 years while Arsenal have come short within the dreaded time-frame.

I think looking at thelast 15-20 yrs is fair. you need to be successful over a period of time, it cant just be "they've been good the last 3 years so theyre on par with barca and RM", there are plenty of teams that fill that criteria over the last 2 decades, the difference is that those two are there every year. and winning a cup isn't half as meaningful as winning a league, aside from the CL.
the main difference between Spain and England is spending power. In Spain RM and Barca can out spend their way to the top because the disparity is so big. in England you have 3 or 4 teams that have a shit ton of cash and no one team can "out talent" (if that makes sense) the others. and the rest of the league has much more money compared to the also-rans in spain which can give the big teams a fight on a match by match basis, making it more open at the top.

by harhar11 Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:49 pm

Doc wrote:Since the thread provided all the evidence I needed, yes, outside of Real, Barcelona and Atletico, the rest are underrated.

Similarly in the same light English talent is underrated.

Don't know why this suprises you. It has always been like this. Just look at Silva, Mata, J.Martinez or Negredo. When they were in Spain, only La Liga fans rated them. But once they moved to the PL, they instantly became world class. It's something that has annoyed me for quite some time now.

by Forza Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:36 am

RealGunner wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:How have Atletico been better than Arsenal this season? For me they have been equal. I was talking overall though, not just this season.

Portsmouth and Wigan have won the FA Cup, doesn't make them better than Arsenal. Shakhtar have won the UEFA Cup, doesn't mean they're better than Arsenal. The only trophies that should matter for a top club are the league and the CL. When was the last time Atletico won that? In fact when was the last time they were close to winning the CL or league? Which club has had a bigger chance of winning the league/CL in the past 10-15 years? Arsenal or Atletico? Clearly Arsenal because they are the superior team. Atletico have been nothing more than an upper midtable club when compared to top teams.

I'll admit this season there is a big 3 in Spain, but looking at the last 10-15 years it's mostly been a two team league. I won't be surprised if Atletico go back how they were before when Costa leaves.

Fantastic post as usual.

Atletico's eventual decline is not only about "when Costa leaves". Much more importantly, you have to take into account that unlike R. Madrid and Barca, Atletico's business model is unsustainable. As I understand it, they have crippling debt which they are unable to service without doing a fire sale sometime soon. Not only that, but there is no "top 3" in Spain in terms of revenue and assets. Barca and R. Madrid are leagues ahead of anyone else in La Liga and this is why La Liga will be a top 2 for the foreseeable future. Investment into Malaga threatened to break the duopoly, but that fell over like a paper tiger when the promised investment wasn't continued. Look at where all the best of those Malaga players are now - either at R. Mardid, Barca or noveau rich oil clubs with longer-term investment than the Malaga project.

by FilthyLuca Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:53 pm

harhar11 wrote:
Doc wrote:Since the thread provided all the evidence I needed, yes, outside of Real, Barcelona and Atletico, the rest are underrated.

Similarly in the same light English talent is underrated.

Don't know why this suprises you. It has always been like this. Just look at Silva, Mata, J.Martinez or Negredo. When they were in Spain, only La Liga fans rated them. But once they moved to the PL, they instantly became world class. It's something that has annoyed me for quite some time now.

all due respect, that's bullshit. maybe for the average fan, but if you follow enough to post on a forum, and aren't blinded by your "love" (or rather the perceived self validation your country's league provides you) then you know better.

by Sponsored content