The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça

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The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça Empty The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça

Post by Arquitecto Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:45 pm

Now I might be biased towards Eden yet Neymar is not an individual to whom I hold any dislike for.

It may be Neymar's first year in Barça yet Hazard on the impact that he has produced in Chelsea, given that produces 68% of Chelsea's attack (based on flank to flank comparison) and in comparison to Neymar's more functional performances in Barça, I would choose Hazard.

What Neymar has over Hazard at the moment is his final ball, in comparison to Hazard's overall superior playmaking ability outside the box. Neymar also statistically produces finer stat bases while Hazard's almost intangible production is one that must be seen by visual inference.

Tactically Neymar exceeds given Hazard can be predictable (given that he is naturally a central player) and needs to improve off the ball and attacking open space.

Yet as a whole, I put down Hazard as the superior player who at the moment is reaching the ceiling to which some doubted that he would. His play ranging from left, right and centre of the box creates such impact in comparison to Neymar's mostly designated role on the left flank for Barça.

If Hazard commences performing for Belgium in comparison to Neymar's excellence for Brazil, I would find more people agreeing with me.

Keep in mind, these are mostly subjective despite my deceleration as Hazard as a superior footballer.
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Post by fatman123 Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:50 pm

Another significant advantage for Neymar is that the other forwards around him are also in his ellite bracket, where as Hazard has only ever had a past it Eto'o and Torres playing ahead of him. If next season we can bring in the top quality forward we really need it will make Hazard a much better player
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:55 pm

I am a bit disappointed, i am used to reading much longer OPs...

Arq is in decline Sad
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Post by Ganso Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:57 pm

you guys are forgetting the 2  main things here.Hazard is the center of this Chelsea team,Neymar isnt the center of Barcelona.Neymar played a few games as false 9 and was even better than Hazard atm.

and as Arq said, this is not only the first few months of Nerman in europe, its his first months in Barcelona which is just another complicated system to adapt to,specially these CF-less formations.Neymar often has no one to make the final pass
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The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça Empty Re: The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça

Post by Arquitecto Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:00 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:I am a bit disappointed, i am used to reading much longer OPs...

Arq is in decline Sad

I was actually going to apologize for that as this thread was made on a promise to a certain poster, as digging up tangibles for such an in-depth debate is mind-bending. That, and I'm rather tardy post-matches.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:01 pm

pls stahp, it's not that complicated for nerman to play at barca, if anything that role on the left is tailor made for him. he clearly had an easier time transitioning to barca than hazard to chelsea
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Post by Winter is Coming Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:03 pm

Not a fair comparison at all as said by Ganso he isn't our main focal point (Messi is) Hazard is pretty much Chelsea main man, Hazard has spent two years with Chelsea and has a better team understanding. He's also worked under Rafa and Mou, two tactically smat coaches, he also spent many years in Europe. Neymar is being coached by Tata (not a high caliber coach yet), its his first year with the team and his first year in Europe.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:05 pm

The only elite forward at Barca other than Nerman is Messi and Nerman and Messi have hardly played together.

So i don't see that is even part of a debate.

Not willing to state who is better this season or what ever as we are in February and a lot changes.

Hazard is great right now but not as great as Nerman was before injury and if Nerman comes back and destroys City in their 2 legged affair then the discussion changes.

Hazard is only just starting to carry his team offensively, while Nerman has been doing it since he was 16 or 17 and for this reason is a lot more mature.

Both are the shining lights of their generation along with Gotze though.

Also what Winter is Coming said.
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The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça Empty Re: The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça

Post by Arquitecto Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:06 pm

Ganso wrote:you guys are forgetting the 2  main things here.Hazard is the center of this Chelsea team,Neymar isnt the center of Barcelona.Neymar played a few games as false 9 and was even better than Hazard atm.

and as Arq said, this is not only the first few months of Nerman in europe, its his first months in Barcelona which is just another complicated system to adapt to,specially these CF-less formations.Neymar often has no one to make the final pass

Neymar's greatest disadvantage is that all Barca's play are essentially centred down to Lio Messi, as if a giant black hole exists in the crux of their attack. In comparison to Brazil where he is allowed freedom with Oscar and license to traverse flanks at will, Neymar isn't afforded that to which can limit his game if continued.

Hazard is naturally a central player who must eventually be phased in between both flanks yet until he does not tactically improve his off-ball digression, defenders will eventually phase his game out to which relies on factors to which cannot be sustained in the long run.

Though I cannot agree that the play is built around him, given that his movement has demanded the amount of touches on a consistent basis.

Which is why Chelsea evolving Hazard's game is so vital as his drop in form at Lille and Chelsea was product of that.
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Post by Ganso Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:06 pm

Of course it is,anyone who has watched neymar for Santos and for Brazil know that he needs a CF to play along with and he doesnt have nearly enough freedom as he normally did.At Barcelona he is almost always a strict LW, specially when Messi is playing.

Also, Neymar is a much more consistent player in terms of overall performance than Hazard which is something Eden has struggled with.
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Post by fatman123 Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:10 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The only elite forward at Barca other than Nerman is Messi and Nerman and Messi have hardly played together.

So i don't see that is even part of a debate.

Are you saying Torres/Eto'o/Ba are even within touching distance of Perdo/Alexis/Cesc?
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:10 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The only elite forward at Barca other than Nerman is Messi and Nerman and Messi have hardly played together.

So i don't see that is even part of a debate.

Not willing to state who is better this season or what ever as we are in February and a lot changes.

Hazard is great right now but not as great as Nerman was before injury and if Nerman comes back and destroys City in their 2 legged affair then the discussion changes.

Hazard is only just starting to carry his team offensively, while Nerman has been doing it since he was 16 or 17 and for this reason is a lot more mature.

Both are the shining lights of their generation along with Gotze though.

Also what Winter is Coming said.

I cannot agree that Neymar pre-injury was superior to Hazard at the moment on whose impact surpasses Neymar's albiet impressive performances for Barca. I just don't see him involved in the game as much as Eden has.

Neymar may have been carrying his team (Ganso deserves a shout) yet Hazard was performing at superior level within the Ligue 1 compared to the Brasilerao, in which tangibly is not on the level of Ligue 1 defences or tactics.


I don't agree that Hazard should be put in the same generation gap as Neymar and Goetze either, as Neymar is 21 and Hazard is 23, the latter should be placed in the same platform as Marco Reus (24).

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Post by Ganso Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:11 pm

damn, i just realized i turned this into a Hazard vs Nerman thread which is not what Arq was talking about in the op, my bad
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The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça Empty Re: The Impact of Eden Hazard at Chelsea versus Neymar at Barça

Post by futbol Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:13 pm

I have a hard time imagining how any player, especially a 21 year old player, could have made any bigger impact than Neymar did at Barcelona so far. But then again I haven't followed Chelsea at all apart from 1 or 2 big games like today.

Neymar's proven to be a big game player since day 1. Scored the only Barca goal in the 2-legged tie against Atletico Madrid which provided Barca with their first trophy of the season. He made an immediate impact in El Clasico, scoring and assisting. He assisted the only goal in the game against Espanyol via a double-nutmegg. Scored both goals against a deep-sitting Villarreal. In Messi's absence he's played false 9 and excelled immediately so I have to disagree with that "designated LW role" part. Watch how he creates the winner against Celtic in Celtic park from the middle with a throughball. The only criticism is that he could score much more. He's a bit too generous with his playmaking. For a 21 year old Brazilian flair player his game intelligence is through the roof. When 1 on 1 he plays it sideways to Pedro for the tap-in. What kind of Brazilian "Youtube footballer" does that, fss?

What sets Neymar truly apart though is his acceleration IMO. It's insane on the first few meters.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Barcelona have dropped points in 3 out of 4 La Liga games since he got injured, even with Messi returning.

I said in another thread a few weeks ago that Neymar has been better than C. Ronaldo this season and I still stand by it. Ronaldo had countless games like yesterday against Athletic Bilbao where he was anonymous. Ronaldo has the ability to statpad 10 goals in like 3 games though, even when playing shit, messing up easy passes and being a non-entity for 85 minutes of a game so people don't notice.

Once again: Don't know about Hazard's point of view at Chelsea. I prefer watching paint dry than watching Mou coaching one of the dullest teams in the world. But I can't imagine Hazard coming to Barca and doing better than Nerman.

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Post by Arquitecto Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:14 pm

It can evolve into a Hazard versus Neymar thread as long as the debate is objectively placed, yet my tardy OP does not qualify enough attention on the prime topic at hand as it is.

Would have been better to do so if Neymar was not injured.
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Post by Ganso Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:16 pm

Fußball wrote:I have a hard time imagining how any player, especially a 21 year old player, could have made any bigger impact than Neymar did at Barcelona so far. But then again I haven't followed Chelsea at all apart from 1 or 2 big games like today.

Neymar's proven to be a big game player since day 1. Scored the only Barca goal in the 2-legged tie against Atletico Madrid which provided Barca with their first trophy of the season. He made an immediate impact in El Clasico, scoring and assisting. He assisted the only goal in the game against Espanyol via a double-nutmegg. Scored both goals against a deep-sitting Villarreal. In Messi's absence he's played false 9 and excelled immediately so I have to disagree with that "designated LW role" part. Watch how he creates the winner against Celtic in Celtic park from the middle with a throughball. The only criticism is that he could score much more. He's a bit too generous with his playmaking. For a 21 year old Brazilian flair player his game intelligence is through the roof. When 1 on 1 he plays it sideways to Pedro for the tap-in. What kind of Brazilian "Youtube footballer" does that, fss?

What sets Neymar truly apart though is his acceleration IMO. It's insane on the first few meters.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Barcelona have dropped points in 3 out of 4 La Liga games since he got injured, even with Messi returning.

I said in another thread a few weeks ago that Neymar has been better than C. Ronaldo this season and I still stand by it. Ronaldo had countless games like yesterday against Athletic Bilbao where he was anonymous. Ronaldo has the ability to statpad 10 goals in like 3 games though, even when playing shit, messing up easy passes and being a non-entity for 85 minutes of a game so people don't notice.

Once again: Don't know about Hazard's point of view at Chelsea. I prefer watching paint dry than watching Mou coaching one of the dullest teams in the world. But I can't imagine Hazard coming to Barca and doing better than Nerman.
Bill :bow:
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Post by Gil Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:16 pm

After Eden's performances since late November and Neymar this season as well as the Confed Cup I'm convinced these two will be the Messi and Ronaldo of their generation barring any unexpected & unfortunate injuries.

The contrast in their dribbling styles is interesting though. Neymar is more explosive, trickster in the mould of Ronaldinho while Eden has more of a Messi style of dribbling, a glorious combination of incredible close control, balance and upper body strength.

Hazard has clearly been more influential for club due to the inferior talent he's surrounded around and has been almost forced into becoming the leader of the team while Neymar has slotted in seamlessly into that left sided role and has been almost outstanding playing a secondary role to Messi.

I think for country Neymar has proven himself more though. I know he's surrounded by superior teammates but he's dealt with the expectations of 200 million Brazilians impeccably well while Hazard is yet to reach the heights he has for Chelsea/Lille in a Belgium kit.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:19 pm

Started this topic off as a light-hearted comparison yet based on what I am seeing, it deserves more respect as I haven't realized all the factors that can be compared between the two and what they bring in their presence and what is left in their absence.

Will post a proper post on this as I am rather fatigued and shouldn't be posting half-assed deductions.

Fußball produced a commendable post, will reply to it tomorrow.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:19 pm

Agree 100% with Gil's post.
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Post by Ganso Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:22 pm

Gil wrote:After Eden's performances since late November and Neymar this season as well as the Confed Cup I'm convinced these two will be the Messi and Ronaldo of their generation barring any unexpected & unfortunate injuries.

The contrast in their dribbling styles is interesting though. Neymar is more explosive, trickster in the mould of Ronaldinho while Eden has more of a Messi style of dribbling, a glorious combination of incredible close control, balance and upper body strength.

Hazard has clearly been more influential for club due to the inferior talent he's surrounded around and has been almost forced into becoming the leader of the team while Neymar has slotted in seamlessly into that left sided role and has been almost outstanding playing a secondary role to Messi.

I think for country Neymar has proven himself more though. I know he's surrounded by superior teammates but he's dealt with the expectations of 200 million Brazilians impeccably well while Hazard is yet to reach the heights he has for Chelsea/Lille in a Belgium kit.
Gil :bow:

I do disagree about us having superior players compared to Belgium though.I think the only advantage Neymar has over Hazard at the international stage in terms of "team" is Scolari
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Post by Winter is Coming Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:30 pm

I'd also add Gotze in this with Bayern/Pep he'll be massive. Hazard it could depend to be honest, he's a remarkable talent and has a lot to offer. I've seen him play with Lillie plenty 4-5 years back, but part of me still believes there's a lot more to be desired by him.
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:30 pm

Hazard has more refined policymaking skills imo, neymar has more rapid mobility, his "associative" skills are quite impressive, good pass and move player, which is really what makes him an effective player more so than the tricks and skills.

I would rather watch hazard in his recent form. I also think hazard has more goal scoring potential, or at least, a better shot from distance
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Post by futbol Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:46 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:I also think hazard has more goal scoring potential

For me it's the opposite. Neymar's off-the-ball game is already on a different level from what I can see which comes as no surprise given his insane acceleration which helps him shake off markers. Right now he's collecting the ball in deeper positions, playmaking and running with ball at feet. But I can easily see him staying upfront and making off-the-ball runs and providing the movement upfront for Messi's throughballs to score goals (especially with Messi himself turning into DMessi the older he gets). Once he matures and gets more in sync with Messi I could easily see him hitting 40 goals in a season. At the end of the day he is a striker. I don't see that with Hazard. Hazard is more like Ribery for me. I think he will always be a player who will want to run with ball at feet rather than without it.

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Post by lszanto Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:53 pm

Another thing that I haven't seen anybody else mention is that both of these guys are more than willing and capable to take the ball on either foot which just adds to their ability in and around the area.

Hazard needs to man up and shoot more, he has the ability but sometimes doesn't back himself, there were 2 or 3 times in the game today where he could have been more selfish and he has the quality to convert if he tries. I think people underestimate his final ball due to the woeful finishers we have up front, in the past few games he'd easily have 3 or 4 assists if people even just got a foot to it, Ramires missed one against stoke, Lampard missed one against stoke, Eto'o today.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:02 am

there is only one Gil Proud
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