The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

LeBron is more talented than all of those players you listed, that has to count for something.. And 4 MVPs and 2 rings before he turned 29 is pretty crazy.. He's got the talent, numbers and hardware

What should talent count for? If anything I personally feel that goes against your arguments. While he has been a force in the league, I think we can all agree that force is not quite the same when it's crunch time. I will stress that there are others that have more basketball knowledge than me, but I've watched enough of LeBron in the playoffs to feel comfortable making that statement. You guys are always going on about how the regular season is irrelevant, but as soon as LeBron sinks a "clutch" game winner, you guys are praising the man. What happens if he misses that shot? Exactly, nothing at all, they just move on to the next game. Respect the guy for getting his rings, but he's not doing it all by his lonesome.

To be the best you have to prove that you want to have that ball in your hands at the end of the game. Are there situations where someone else might get the shot, sure, but the greatest athletes feed of that moment. I don't get that feeling from LeBron. I don't think Jordan would care if he missed a shot and before taking the shot, I doubt he even considered that he would miss. What I mean is that some players are comfortable in that moment and it allows them to be the best because that is when it counts the most. I never played at a super high level of sports, but when you're in the midst of playoffs (I'll use volleyball for an example), there's a big difference taking a swing with the score (0-0) and taking that same swing when the score is (23-24) and game is on the line.

Game winners aren't the same without the buzzer noise when the shot goes in.

Wish we still had Jeremy lin so we had someone who could actually hit game winning shots, because Carmelo is never going to hit another one ever again.

The Lebron cock riders are back i see...

Evertime he does something he's f*cking god, it was a great shot but its nothing better than what Durant does on a weekly basis ffs

Better than Bird

Can we create a thread for Lebron cock riders to wank each other of in ?

Cheers.

While that may be true, I can still consider certain shots to be clutch without the buzzer going off. Clutch for me in coming up big in a moment that changes the game. I don't have the time to elaborate, but I'll be sure to later if that didn't make sense.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The Lebron cock riders are back i see...

Evertime he does something he's f*cking god, it was a great shot but its nothing better than what Durant does on a weekly basis ffs

Better than Bird

Can we create a thread for Lebron cock riders to wank each other of in ?

Cheers.

In my opinion that is a moment LeBron can embrace...he takes a difficult shot that makes him a god (to his fanboys) if he makes it and they can just blame the level of difficulty if he misses it.

ranDOM 10 wrote:While that may be true, I can still consider certain shots to be clutch without the buzzer going off. Clutch for me in coming up big in a moment that changes the game. I don't have the time to elaborate, but I'll be sure to later if that didn't make sense.

Oh they are definitely still clutch but idk they were never as much fun to watch, or don't have that same game winning 'feel'. It's like when a team scores a game winning stoppage time goal away from home and nobody cheers except for a small group of away fans... Just not quite as exciting

LeBron has had tons of clutch performances in the playoffs, I don't know what your talking about.. He's only had 1 truelly horrible series and that was the 2011 final against Dallas, but even then he was clutch for the first 3 series' especially against the Bulls and Celtics.. You don't win as many series' with the scrub Cavs as he did without your fair share of clutch performances

And mole, we're just giving props for a difficult shot I don't see what the problem is, it's not like we're saying he's the MVP favorite now or anything like that.. And Durant hasn't made a more difficult clutch shot than that all season if you want to go there.. He's had more clutch moments, but a single shot? No

Also LeBron in the final 5 minutes of the 4th and OT with the score within 5, has a PER of 41.2 which is best in the league and 6 PTS higher than #2 James Harden.. Just saying, he's the most efficient player in the clutch still.. Clutch isn't only about scoring, with the clock ticking down I want the ball in his hands because he will make the best decision

I knew a LeBron fan would stretch define clutch as the last 5 minutes. I myself don't know about the numbers like that, I'm just going off the eye test. But is there any research that shows LeBron's statistics in the last 2 minutes?

Also, is that statistic for this season, or for his career? It should also be mentioned that I don't care for those numbers in the regular season, that is not what we are debating.

Let me put it to you this way...take Peyton Manning. I am a big fan of his. Dude is a regular season beast - he just puts up crazy numbers. On the flip side, he has not shown me that he can come up big when it matters most. I understand that these sports might not be the best to compare, but I am just trying to make you understanding the point I am trying to make. LeBron James puts up monster numbers and he's a freak, I give you that much, but I think you're failing to see the big picture.

That's for this season but he was #1 last season as well, and I'm sure he's always up there.. I got that off of Numbers Never Lie, not bothered to search for last 2 min stats at the moment

And like the great Stephen A. Smith said, he doesn't need to be clutch if he destroys your team early

Oh my goodness, I know times are tough when you're using Stephen A. Smith to further prove your point. How many times have we seen LeBron destroy teams early on late in the postseason. Not saying it doesn't happen, but against the Pacers those type of games went both ways if I recall correctly. Anyway, this seems like an agree to disagree moment. I did some more research on LeBron and found his Playoff "clutch" numbers to be better than expected (I used air quotes for clutch because the one site I'm referring to opted to not include turnovers and free throws - seemed slightly fishy.)


Criteria used...

Playoff games only (no regular season)

Go-ahead or game-tying shot attempts (free throws, turnovers and the like were ignored)

Final 24 seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime

Michael Jordan 9 18 50
LeBron James 7 16 43.8
Kevin Durant 5 12 41.7
Dirk Nowitzki 5 12 41.7
Kobe Bryant 5 17 29.4

Not much separating LeBron from Durant. I really wanted different criteria but I don't have the time to do all the research. As I said earlier, for me it is the eye test that I am using. I just don't get the feeling LeBron is comfortable in crunch time (final 2-3 minutes) and I recall games where he has crumbled. One in particular is when he had those 2 terrible turnovers late in the game. Perhaps there are moments when he gets caught in two minds and he can't decide if he should take over the game or facilitate. '

It sucks that you guys praise him so much because than I wouldn't have to play devils advocate and look like a hater. LeBron seems like a student of the game and I can see him sorting out the "issues" I believe he needs to address. He has evolved his game over time (thank goodness he gave up chucking 3's like he used to) and that shows me maturity and professionalism.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I DO believe athletes can develop a "clutch gene". If you go through similar situations enough times, I truly believe you can overcome.

My problem is not praising him for the shot that's fine.

In fact he DESERVES praise for the shot.

Its the usual standard fan fair everytime Lebron does something which gets me and yes Durant has made more difficult shots its just easier for him due to his length and wingspan.

People are hyping it mainly because its against Iggy who is a fantastic perimeter defender but Durant torched him over and over again lol.

Its the double standard which surrounds him in this thread which annoys me, he gets praise in this thread for doing things that other players do and in some cases consistently which irks me.

Praising thing is one thing and absolutely deserved but then going to the next level with bullshit like we are all witnesses, and comparing him to people he has no right to be compared with at this stage in his career is what annoys me.

If he was just praised then it would have been fine but as always we have to go far and beyond the status quo and take things too far.

Stephen A knows more about ball than everyone in this forum tbh.. Anyways I thought you would be focusing on his Cavs days, but since you're referring to the Pacers I guess not.. With the exception of the Dallas series he has had several clutch moments with the Heat and has played well in big game situations tbh

Especially the 2012 finals where he destroyed the Thunder

Mole, Gil and I are LeBron fans.. Of course we will praise him

There's people that post vids of Durant or others doing their thing on here as well.. I don't see it as a big deal.. Durant is one of my fave players to be honest, but I have others as well and I don't post vids of them either

If a Durant vid was posted every time he went off, I wouldn't mind

That may be the case, but he's an entertainer on ESPN. Yes those people have tons of knowledge, but that doesn't mean people in here don't possess a great amount of knowledge. While I don't fit into that category, I personally know that dmize is very knowledgable because we've spoken at length about sports. But it's fine, just keep discounting people because they aren't Stephen A. Smith.

I am referring to everything, but even Jordan struggled early on in the clutch. If you actually read my posts with the intention of understanding them you might begin to get what I'm saying. You don't just become clutch, you have to live out those moments of failure in order to succeed. So while he had his poor moments with the Cavs, I'm not going to use that to say the man isn't clutch. I said it before and I'll say it again, some of you force me to play devils advocate and keep things in perspective. I have a ton of respect for LeBron and the things he has accomplished, but that being said, I also have now set a higher bar for him...especially if he wants the GOAT title.

Not really going to get in this argument about Bron and praise, kind of pointless.

Anyway, was having a discussion earlier with a friend (hates LeBron btw), he said,
"When are we going to start looking at players like KD, Melo, CP3, Howard and Williams to start producing more in the post season and if they don't when can we start to really get on them like we did for Bron and Kobe?"

I literally laughed at him for that comment.
He's new to the NBA, but it was still funny.

I thought this Lebron clutch argument died in 2012? We're STILL on it?




And Mole, you REALLY HONESTLY believe Lebron shouldn't be in the same sentence with Bird? Really? Really?

LeSwagg James wrote:LeBron is more talented than all of those players you listed, that has to count for something.. And 4 MVPs and 2 rings before he turned 29 is pretty crazy.. He's got the talent, numbers and hardware

How do you judge talent exactly?

2 rings before 29 is nothing, all those guys I said already did that.

And better playoff/finals numbers in most cases.

So basically we have your fanboyism as "proof"

LeSwagg James wrote:
And like the great Stephen A. Smith said, he doesn't need to be clutch if he destroys your team early

Like Boston and Dallas.......ohhhhhhh.....

Are any of you guys actually going to be watching the All-Star weekend?

I'm seriously considering skipping it......

I will watch the game itself for sure, always do.

The 3 point and dunk contest, I am not sure, I might catch that live or just watch it the next day. Depends how I feel on the day I guess.

I enjoy the game mostly, although I recently watched a game from the early 00's and it was much more interesting and entertainment filled...still, I will catch it.

Curry, Irving Lillard? Yea I'm watching the 3 point contest.

Dunk no. I'll watch the best ones afterward.

Rookie game yea, because I like to watch rookies play, and the actual game yeah. Don't know a single person who watches the celeb game.

Depends all on timing really and what i'm doing.

I'll probably watch the Rookies and the actual game itself but the rest i'll probably watch on Youtube later on.

The Franchise wrote:

LeSwagg James wrote:LeBron is more talented than all of those players you listed, that has to count for something.. And 4 MVPs and 2 rings before he turned 29 is pretty crazy.. He's got the talent, numbers and hardware

How do you judge talent exactly?

2 rings before 29 is nothing, all those guys I said already did that.

And better playoff/finals numbers in most cases.

So basically we have your fanboyism as "proof"

What he can do on both sides of the floor.. And it's natural, he's had the all around game since day 1..

4 MVPs and 2 rings at 28.. Find me others with that resume.. Not even Jordan had that, yes he went to College but you can't blame LeBron for fast tracking it.. Jordan could of tried to come out of HS if he wanted, it was done before

izzy wrote:Are any of you guys actually going to be watching the All-Star weekend?

I'm seriously considering skipping it......

The usual 3-pt contest, dunk contest and the big game.. Nothing else matters

What a load of rubbish. Whatever man.