If a player isn't born in a country, should he be allowed to play for it?

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If a player isn't born in a country, should he be allowed to play for it? Empty If a player isn't born in a country, should he be allowed to play for it?

Post by Onyx Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:31 am

Wilshere:

"If you live in England for five years it doesn't make you English," Arsenal's Wilshere, 21, said.

"If I went to Spain and lived there for five years I'm not going to play for Spain."
I agree with Wilshere. Unless of course you were let's say 6-7 years old when you moved, then it might be more acceptable. However moving when you're 17, waiting 5 years and playing for a country doesn't make sense.

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Post by zigra Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:44 am

I really don't care. Anyone should play for whichever country he likes best.
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Post by Kick Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:49 am

I think if you should only be able to play for countries which you hold a passport for.
I know people who have moved countries after the age of 20 and consider themselves citizens of their new country over their old one.
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Post by lszanto Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:20 am

It depends on a variety of things for me. Like if it's the country of one of their parents then i'd say it's ok but in the case of Januzaj i'd say he doesn't get to play for England.

How is it even open for debate? He was born in Belgium and did his youth from 10 at Anderlecht. Living in England for 5 years makes him about as English as me doing my impersonation of the Queen makes me royalty.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:34 am

It's not up for football or any opinionated fan to decide... there are immigration laws and that's what they're for. For example, if you live in the USA for 5 years with a residency card (green card), you're eligible to become a US citizen. Any US citizen can play for the national team of any sport... and they do. It doesn't matter the age or whether they represented another country.

Personally, i couldn't give a rat's ass whether anyone thinks i'm a proper frenchman or american. I'm both. I hold both passports. I would feel equally proud to play for the US or France if i had the opportunity.

Peeps have to realize that the world has evolved and the stone age nationalist ideals are a thing of the past... of course you can live in the past and you'll probably be left behind.
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Post by Art Morte Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:41 am

Yeeeah, it's a tricky question. Where do you draw the line.

Like, wasn't Podolski born in Poland to Polish parents? Yet he plays for Germany. Okay, no problem, I guess. But what if there were nothing but Podolskis in the German NT?

Somewhere there is a point where it begins to feel wrong.
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Post by flameas Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:50 am

No. Its just not right. Maybe only if you moved there as a child or something like that.

Next thing ill move to china, get chinese passport and represent china. That would be wrong. Even if I moved to China, had a baby with my wife - that would not make the baby chinese.
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Post by Grooverider Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:24 am

You should only be allowed to represent the country to which you are born in. simple.

I get annoyed when i hear people saying that they are representing a certain country, only to find out that they moved to that country as a child. Its ridiculous and needs to stop !
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Post by zigra Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:27 am

sportsczy wrote:It's not up for football or any opinionated fan to decide... there are immigration laws and that's what they're for. For example, if you live in the USA for 5 years with a residency card (green card), you're eligible to become a US citizen. Any US citizen can play for the national team of any sport... and they do. It doesn't matter the age or whether they represented another country.

Personally, i couldn't give a rat's ass whether anyone thinks i'm a proper frenchman or american. I'm both. I hold both passports. I would feel equally proud to play for the US or France if i had the opportunity.

Peeps have to realize that the world has evolved and the stone age nationalist ideals are a thing of the past... of course you can live in the past and you'll probably be left behind.
True

Grooverider wrote:You should only be allowed to represent the country to which you are born in. simple.

Glad it's not up to you.
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Post by lszanto Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:27 am

zigra wrote:
sportsczy wrote:It's not up for football or any opinionated fan to decide... there are immigration laws and that's what they're for.  For example, if you live in the USA for 5 years with a residency card (green card), you're eligible to become a US citizen.  Any US citizen can play for the national team of any sport... and they do.  It doesn't matter the age or whether they represented another country.

Personally, i couldn't give a rat's ass whether anyone thinks i'm a proper frenchman or american.  I'm both.  I hold both passports.  I would feel equally proud to play for the US or France if i had the opportunity.

Peeps have to realize that the world has evolved and the stone age nationalist ideals are a thing of the past... of course you can live in the past and you'll probably be left behind.
True

Grooverider wrote:You should only be allowed to represent the country to which you are born in. simple.

Glad it's not up to you.
The way it's going international football will just be like a second club and the players will just choose who they play for...
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Post by Grooverider Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:31 am

zigra wrote:
sportsczy wrote:It's not up for football or any opinionated fan to decide... there are immigration laws and that's what they're for.  For example, if you live in the USA for 5 years with a residency card (green card), you're eligible to become a US citizen.  Any US citizen can play for the national team of any sport... and they do.  It doesn't matter the age or whether they represented another country.

Personally, i couldn't give a rat's ass whether anyone thinks i'm a proper frenchman or american.  I'm both.  I hold both passports.  I would feel equally proud to play for the US or France if i had the opportunity.

Peeps have to realize that the world has evolved and the stone age nationalist ideals are a thing of the past... of course you can live in the past and you'll probably be left behind.
True

Grooverider wrote:You should only be allowed to represent the country to which you are born in. simple.

Glad it's not up to you.
think about what you are actually saying though.

so if a kid moves to (England for example) from Japan. and has japanese parents, does that make him 'english' in any way? answer, no. it does not.

So why the hell should this person be allowed to represent that nation?
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Post by beatrixasdfghjk. Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:37 am

What if the Japanese parents went on a two day holiday to England, the kid happened to be born there, then he grew up in Japan for the rest of his adolescent life?

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Post by Grooverider Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:39 am

beatrixasdfghjk. wrote:What if the Japanese parents went on a two day holiday to England, the kid happened to be born there, then he grew up in Japan for the rest of his adolescent life?

I clearly stated 'move' not 'born', however the scenario is highly unlikely anyway.

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Post by beatrixasdfghjk. Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:42 am

It isn't impossible.

flameas wrote:No. Its just not right. Maybe only if you moved there as a child or something like that.

Next thing ill move to china, get chinese passport and represent china. That would be wrong. Even if I moved to China, had a baby with my wife - that would not make the baby chinese.
If the baby identified himself as Chinese, why not? He's been brought up there for his entire life, he would have learnt the Chinese language, customs, would only hold a Chinese citizenship (they don't take dual citizenship). Unless you're suggesting that the kid shouldn't be able to represent any country at all?


Last edited by beatrixasdfghjk. on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by zigra Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:42 am

lszanto wrote:
The way it's going international football will just be like a second club and the players will just choose who they play for...
So what? Besides you ignore the fact that you can change your club but once you've chosen the country you want to play for you can't just play for another country one year later.
Grooverider wrote:think about what you are actually saying though.

so if a kid moves to (England for example) from Japan. and has japanese parents, does that make him 'english' in any way? answer, no. it does not.

So why the hell should this person be allowed to represent that nation?
He is a part of this nations society just like a man who was born in the very same nation so why shouldn't he be allowed to represent it?! Wtf is this?
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Post by beatrixasdfghjk. Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:44 am

Grooverider wrote:
beatrixasdfghjk. wrote:What if the Japanese parents went on a two day holiday to England, the kid happened to be born there, then he grew up in Japan for the rest of his adolescent life?
I clearly stated 'move' not 'born', however the scenario is highly unlikely anyway.

Grooverider wrote:You should only be allowed to represent the country to which you are born in. simple.

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Post by LeBéninois Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:44 am

Grooverider wrote:
beatrixasdfghjk. wrote:What if the Japanese parents went on a two day holiday to England, the kid happened to be born there, then he grew up in Japan for the rest of his adolescent life?
I clearly stated 'move' not 'born', however the scenario is highly unlikely anyway.

There are a lot of case like that. Parents having children somewhere and then moving back to their country. I was born in Russia, grew up in elsewhere until 14 and now i'm a Canadian.
Should I play for Russia ? No sense.
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Post by chinomaster182 Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:38 pm

If a person holds a valid passport in a country, i would just be unable to tell him he's not a "real" citizen.

Moreover, most of these cases are of players that migrate to another country and now currently play there. It just makes me feel sick that someone who came to your country, worked hard, triumphed and now pays taxes, votes, and has fully immersed yourself in your culture cannot be consired a proud citizen of your country, when on the other hand your local corrupt politician or local drug retailer had the (mis)fortune to be born in a strip of land and now voila!

To cite an example from this thread, there will never be 11 podolskis, unless germanys demography changes so radically where its now a different country.

When you discriminate you only promote hate.
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Post by Abramovich Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:55 pm

Play for the country you born in and grew up in, not really that bothered about parent lineage. For me it's about giving back to the country that raised you.

Good job you can't have people like adit who have no ties to Spain aside from a fake grandad and would try to play for them Laughing.
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Post by rwo power Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:25 pm

Art Morte wrote:Like, wasn't Podolski born in Poland to Polish parents? Yet he plays for Germany. Okay, no problem, I guess. But what if there were nothing but Podolskis in the German NT?
Well, in the case of Silesia it is that it was a part of Germany until 1945, so quite some people living their are "ethnically German" in the first place. Moreover, he is living within the current German borders since he was 2 years of age, went to school here and went through the German youth teams.

IMO a player who was educated in a country for his whole life and went through that country's youth teams should play in that NT. Nuri Sahin for example was born in Germany, but he decided to go through all Turkish youth teams, so him playing for Turkey is just as logical, just like the Altintop twins, too.
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Post by The_Badger Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:58 pm

It's players like Osvaldo and Cacau make a mockery of the whole thing.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:02 pm

Armchair fans should not get to dictate how certain players identify as, that's a personal decision. In my opinion it's quite simple, if a player identifies with a nationality + the country recognizes him as one of their own by awarding him citizenship then he should play for that country.
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Post by lenear1030 Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:58 pm

I think you should be able to play for the country you choose, as long as you lived there for some period of time. Whichever nationality you identify with is who you can chose.

I don't think switching NT's should be allowed though. If you commit to country even for U17, I think you should have to stay with them. You shouldn't be able to come back and say, "Oh hey I change my mind, I wanna play over there now." In those cases it isn't really about who they identify with, it's about who's the more competitive country, or where they can get guaranteed playing time
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Post by chinomaster182 Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:05 pm

lenear1030 wrote:I think you should be able to play for the country you choose, as long as you lived there for some period of time. Whichever nationality you identify with is who you can chose.

I don't think switching NT's should be allowed though. If you commit to country even for U17, I think you should have to stay with them. You shouldn't be able to come back and say, "Oh hey I change my mind, I wanna play over there now." In those cases it isn't really about who they identify with, it's about who's the more competitive country, or where they can get guaranteed playing time
I highly doubt its legal to bind a minor to a work situation in many parts of the world.

Some kids are called up for u-15 at age 13 or so, you can barely get a grasp of your life at that age, nevermind make life binding decisions.
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Post by DeletedUser#1 Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:31 pm

You should be eligible to play for countries in which:

- You are Born AND Raised

- Your IMMEDIATE parents (mom and dad) are from. (You have blood ties with)

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