How can germany win the world cup?

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Post by Forza Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:31 pm

rwo power wrote:
Kick wrote:Where are you getting your tomatoes from? Shocked
Well, if I tell which country the ones are from that are called "the 4th aggregate state of water" here, people might call me racist or so XD
tomato plasma

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Post by urbaNRoots Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:22 pm

Sacking Löw is not an option now, it should've happened straight after the Euros, so I'll concentrate in Löw right now.

Löw repeatedly says he wants "to defend by attacking" and I love the kind of football he wants Germany to play but his team selection in defence is just wrong.

Naturally, Mertesacker - Hummels are the best central defenders Germany have and good enough to play in a World Cup winning team. But this duo will never work if they play in a high-line, defending aggresively (same about the central midfielders but I'll talk about that another day). These two are best suited when defending deep, they offer calmness and clear everything that comes at them with the help of a defensive midfielder.

So if Löw wants to continue with his "defend by attacking" philosophy these kind of players have no place in the first team... he gets it all wrong though by trying to combine all the best players in one team even if they don't suit each other or the tactics.

If I was in charge I'd sack Löw straight after the World Cup if he doesn't change his ways. DFB will probably extend his contract if he reaches the semi-finals though so it's all pointless.
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Post by aleumdance Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:12 pm

TIL: nobody likes Low
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Post by Bellabong Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:46 pm

balotelli's First Goal would have been easily avoided if Low had played Per...badstuber not wanting to jump still surprises me..
Do people forget that Özil backed off Pirlo after pressing him (so it was just pure laziness on his part), and Hummel's got turned inside out by Cassano?

Özil needs to be dropped in favor of Kroos or even Gündogan/Reus unless Wenger can whip Mesut into defensive responsibilities.
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Post by aleumdance Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:59 pm

Phritz wrote:
balotelli's First Goal would have been easily avoided if Low had played Per...badstuber not wanting to jump still surprises me..
Do people forget that Özil backed off Pirlo after pressing him (so it was just pure laziness on his part), and Hummel's got turned inside out by Cassano?

Özil needs to be dropped in favor of Kroos or even Gündogan/Reus unless Wenger can whip Mesut into defensive responsibilities.
the Goal though was entirely Badstuber's fault..

he did not even try jumping

How can germany win the world cup? - Page 2 IbabW4BfMjsslf
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Post by Bellabong Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:39 pm

Go watch the entire play leading up to the goal and watch Özil. Saying the goal was entirely Badstuber's fault is like saying Badstuber has to defend against Pirlo, Cassano and Balotelli on his own, Football isn't like that at all.

Even in that GIF you have to ask what Hummels doing all the way out there especially since this wasn't a counter-attacking situation.
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Post by urbaNRoots Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:48 pm

Phritz :facepalm:

You do realize that Kroos was brought in to press Pirlo and not Özil, right?
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Post by aleumdance Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:16 pm

it was not counter attacking, so hummels went for a normal cover.

badstuber was watching balo through out the play but when the cross was made, he refused to jump
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Post by TonyDaBeast Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:48 pm

El Shaarawy wrote:By not drawing Italy
discussion closed. Lock Thread.
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Post by Guest Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:02 pm

Germany is 1 in form winger away from winning the world cup next year.

Can Marin step up?

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Post by aleumdance Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:10 pm

Betty La Fea wrote:Germany is 1 in form winger away from winning the world cup next year.

Can Marin step up?
put Marin against a physical side, and he would disappear..its Powerful Magic, harry potter stuff
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Post by Ganso Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:15 pm

Betty La Fea wrote:Germany is 1 in form winger away from winning the world cup next year.

Can Marin step up?
1 winger?Their attack couldnt handle Spain and Italy
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Post by aleumdance Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:21 pm

Ganso wrote:
Betty La Fea wrote:Germany is 1 in form winger away from winning the world cup next year.

Can Marin step up?
1 winger?Their attack couldnt handle Spain and Italy
to be fair Balotelli's early 2 goals kinda hot them hard psychologically..

the Spain game was pretty open to me
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Post by Bellabong Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:46 pm

Kroos and Özil were swapping (more like Özil would take every opportunity to just stay central and ignore his theoretical counterpart - Chielini) throughout the game and you're right, it was Kroos's job to press Pirlo but like I said, Özil is in full lazy mode and happens to be the player furthest up and most central and in a position to press Pirlo. Just watch Özil press Pirlo and then literally walk away while leaving his entire flank exposed, I'm not saying he's entirely responsible for the goal but Chielini and Cassano shouldn't have gotten the ball in the first place. Hummels then decides to go all in instead of just forcing Cassano wide and Balotelli just plain out accelerates Badstuber.

Let's not forget that the 2nd goal came from a long ball from the area of the pitch where Özil should be pressing, heck I remember Montolivo being surprised at the amount of time and space he got for the pass.

Özil is one of the best AM's around, but not suited to what the German game has evolved to.
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Post by aleumdance Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:54 pm

If germany wants full gegenpressing

then hire klopp now......

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Post by Motogp69 Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:47 am

Ganso wrote:
Betty La Fea wrote:Germany is 1 in form winger away from winning the world cup next year.

Can Marin step up?
1 winger?Their attack couldnt handle Spain and Italy
I'll give you Italy, but when it comes to Spain I don't think you were actually watching the game. Spain was saved by Saint Casillas on that day, hell, that entire tournament :coffee: 
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:09 am

Motogp69 wrote:
Natalie Portman wrote:Sacking Jorgi Leow would be a good start
Starting here would be nice.

I'm not sure if it's Jorgi's tactics, our lack of mental strength, or an unfortunate mix of the two. Either way, we should be able to walk the World Cup with the talent we have, but I just don't see it happening this go round.
You cannot be serious lol? Germany have no more talent than any of the other competing nations.

And if anything the likes of Argentina, Brazil, Italy and Spain are more balanced and actually know what their strongest eleven is.

Germany are one of the five teams who can genuinely can win the thing but lets not act like they are any better than their fiercest rivals..... if anything they are worse.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:24 am

Disagreed mole. They have talent in every line and ridiculous depth too. They're missing a RB and perhaps a more complete 9 but they, and Spain, have far and away the best squad and first elevens going into the WC.

Also Italy under the 3-5-2 at the Euros was fearsome, the new one with half a team made up from mid-table teams, not so much.
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Post by ioilersrock448 Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:31 am

Well, you have to start by cloning Thomas Mueller and Lahm. Then wehave a formation of:
Neuer
Lahm-Lahm I-Lahm II-Lahm III
Schweinsteiger-Lahm IV
Mueller-Mueller II- MuellerIII
Mueller IV

In all serious I think this wins Germany the WC:
Neuer
Lahm-Mertesacker/Boateng (Who is in form going in)-Hummels-Schmelzer
Schweinsteiger-Bender (Take your pick)
Mueller-Kroos-Reus
Klose/Gomez (On season form)
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Post by urbaNRoots Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:49 pm

The way Löw wants to play the best XI in my opinion is:

Neuer
Lahm - Boateng - Höwedes - Schmelzer
Khedira - Schweinsteiger
Müller - Özil - Reus
Klose/Götze

But the best XI, in a more counter-attacking system, without a high-line and aggresive defending which is best suited for most German players anyway:

Neuer
Lahm - Mertesacker - Hummels - Schmelzer
Sven Bender - Schweinsteiger
Müller - Özil - Reus
Klose

I find a bit funny how Sven Bender doesn't start most games considering he's the only (a very good one) pure DM Löw has to pick. Khedira, Gündogan, Kroos partnered by Schweini will simply not work when you're playing the best... you need someone who defends like a mad man and let Schweini do what he does best which is control the game and worry less about leaving the defence exposed.
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Post by aleumdance Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:12 pm

Per- Hummels is the best combo for Manschaft..

Hummels being the aggressive sometimes Overlaping type while Per brings balance to the force

but we all know at the WC low can pick any team he wants...

I think germany can win it, just need to deal with the choke factor
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Post by Pip Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:17 pm

Jérôme Boateng is the best German central defender, and has been for the past year. If the likes of Per Mertesacker and Mats Hummels are starting ahead of him, Germany will capitulate at their first challenging match.

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Post by LeBéninois Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:29 pm

It seems pretty obvious to most of the fans here what players have to play and all and i genuinely want to know why Low isn't going in that sense , more pragmatic and more effective ?
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Post by inter1lachen Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:27 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Disagreed mole. They have talent in every line and ridiculous depth too. They're missing a RB and perhaps a more complete 9 but they, and Spain, have far and away the best squad and first elevens going into the WC.

Also Italy under the 3-5-2 at the Euros was fearsome, the new one with half a team made up from mid-table teams, not so much.
Seems to me that Mole is right. Italy is on an upswing in coaching talent, player talent, depth and overall performance. And, as was demonstrated at the Under 21s, Italy are the only team in Europe that have the talent and depth that might challenge Spain. Germany has reached its peak, in my opinion, in terms of player performance and coaching.

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Post by jibers Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:36 pm

Lowe has to stop being a coward. That's how.
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:43 pm

Kroos :facepalm: Ozil will start since he is their best player and best am in the world.

btw, Hummels-Mertesacker is too slow and rigid IMO, they need a faster guy like Howedes or Boateng to parter with. Certainly not Badstuber
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