Which are the strongest teams in Europe now after the latest transfers ?

rwo power wrote:
Dortmund way overrated? Still so butthurt? Dortmund played Real off the pitch three times of four, and in the fourth match they still weathered the storm to proceed. And this is about the present, not where Dortmund ended in 2011/12 in the CL.

Yp, way overrated, problem reading?

The present is 2013/14, where Dortmund have no Goetze, have an angry Lewandowski and probably won't have as much luck on their side to get through by ridiculous ref decisions. So, yeah, bookmark this and save it for 2014.

And by the way, RM vs Dortmund scores doesn't equal who is better. We won against Barca more often than not last year, were we better? They won the league, by the way. So, please, get it through your thick skulls that a team that finishes 25 points off the first spot in Bundesliga can't be the 2nd best team in the world. CL is a lucky competition and it always was, but go ahead and judge everything by it, you'll be in for a surprise every year.

As for RM, we'll replace Higuain with someone better and that will tip the scales in our favour, just as Barcelona will finally find a CB. Dortmund? They are done for the year.

something-red wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Not saying we're automatically better, but we're most likely not going to be the side we were under Mourinho. That's why last seasons results/performances can't be taken into account.

Have some respect lol. He's the reason Madrid is even considered one of the better teams in Europe... where were you before Jose. And no you're not better. Carlo is not that good.

Ancelotti has the potential to be better. Mourinho had a lot of flaws at Real Madrid. He wasn't perfect tactically. We're not better, however we aren't weaker either. Mourinho wasn't even all that good at Real Madrid.

Anyway I don't think anything can be said, because Mourinho is no longer the manager, which means last seasons performances can't be looked at.

Funny how low Barca is rated ... for me it's still the team to beat in Europe. Last years CL performances weren't so good, but this could change. Clearly better than Dortmund though , and for me on the same level as Bayern. I think the cancer of Tito had a big influence on the team, they just weren't so focused on the game annymore.

Clandestino wrote:Dortmun are way overrated and this is what happens when you go far in the CL - a lucky competition to start with. A year ago they were last in a group of Arsenal, Marseille and Olympiacos, for crying out loud. They reffed their way to this year's SF's anyway. Watch them fail miserably this season.

Having said that, I'd rate the teams:
Bayern
Barcelona, Real Madrid, City
United, Chelsea, Dortmund
Juventus, Arsenal, PSG

And I actually think that our team is weaker without Mourinho, Carlo is just sweat-talking people to believing he'll actually win something. It will be a miracle he even makes it 3 years.

LOL you're clearly one of those people that only rates a team on what high profile expensive signings they have by putting Madrid and City there. You shouldn't have even made it past the round of 16 because of ref decisions. At least BVB was the superior team in both legs against Malaga but a lot of wastefulness nearly cost them. Oh yeah and Malaga's 2nd goal was offside too. Dortmund's wins were all very convincing in the CL season, Madrid never won comfortably against any decent side. You can only talk about luck and whatnot when you have CL runs like Chelsea did whose own fans themselves will admit to it.

Look up overrated in the dictionary and you'll find Madrid. This club spends more money than anyone else year after year and before the season their deluded fans hype them about how great they are, how they're going to win the treble and why the god's gift to football because of their illustrious history that other could care less about. However every year they prove nothing.

If Madrid performed as well as Dortmund did last champions league season they wouldn't shut up about good they are, but when Dortmund does it's just lucky and you play down the whole CL competition. The very exact competition which RM obsesses over more than any other club to win. However this won't happen because RM's team just isn't good enough and I look forward to them this season getting their hopes up as usual for their long awaited "la decima", yet falling short again.

Barca stopped being the Barca that everyone knew when Pep left. Last seasons Barca shouldn't be associated with Pep's Barca.

BORUSSIA!! wrote:
LOL you're clearly one of those people that only rates a team on what high profile expensive signings they have by putting Madrid and City there. You shouldn't have even made it past the round of 16 because of ref decisions. At least BVB was the superior team in both legs against Malaga but a lot of wastefulness nearly cost them. Dortmund's wins were all very convincing in the CL season, Madrid never won comfortably against any decent side. You can only talk about luck and whatnot when you have CL runs like Chelsea did whose own fans themselves will admit to it.

Look up overrated in the dictionary and you'll find Madrid. This club spends more money than anyone else year after year and before the season their deluded fans hype them about how great they are, how they're going to win the treble and why the god's gift to football because of their illustrious history that other could care less about. However every year they prove nothing.

If Madrid performed as well as Dortmund did last champions league season they wouldn't shut up about good they are, but when Dortmund does it's just lucky and you play down the whole CL competition. The very exact competition which RM obsesses over more than any other club to win. However this won't happen because RM's team just isn't good enough and I look forward to them this season getting their hopes up as usual for their long awaited "la decima", yet falling short again.

I am afraid anger has gotten the better of you. In your little rant you are first talking to me, than to the club, then to the internet fans you read about, and then to which ever RM fan you had conversations with the last 10 years.

When or if you calm yourself down and sort this confused head of yours, we can continue our discussion.

BAYERN_MUNICH wrote:Funny how low Barca is rated ... for me it's still the team to beat in Europe. Last years CL performances weren't so good, but this could change. Clearly better than Dortmund though , and for me on the same level as Bayern. I think the cancer of Tito had a big influence on the team, they just weren't so focused on the game annymore.

Barca's problem is tactics if they sort that out they can be a very dangerous threat.

CB area is a problem but nowhere near as big as the tactics are, they won the CL in 2011 with Mascherano and Pique at CB most of the season but it never effected them because the tactics and defensive organisation were on point.

No defenders can fix it, they need a coach to fix it will the new coach fix it? only time will tell.

Yohan Modric wrote:

something-red wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Not saying we're automatically better, but we're most likely not going to be the side we were under Mourinho. That's why last seasons results/performances can't be taken into account.

Have some respect lol. He's the reason Madrid is even considered one of the better teams in Europe... where were you before Jose. And no you're not better. Carlo is not that good.

Ancelotti has the potential to be better. Mourinho had a lot of flaws at Real Madrid. He wasn't perfect tactically. We're not better, however we aren't weaker either. Mourinho wasn't even all that good at Real Madrid.

Anyway I don't think anything can be said, because Mourinho is no longer the manager, which means last seasons performances can't be looked at.

and how do know ancelotti will even be a improvement. Madrid have only played a couple of pre-season games. A 6-0 win to bhermpoutn or whatever and 2-2 to Lyon which they got severely outplayed. Honestly Lyon were amazing. But I'm not going to judge on little pre-season game on how Lyon is better than Real Madrid because I don't have the logic of a RM Fan.

Clandestino wrote:

rwo power wrote:
Dortmund way overrated? Still so butthurt? Dortmund played Real off the pitch three times of four, and in the fourth match they still weathered the storm to proceed. And this is about the present, not where Dortmund ended in 2011/12 in the CL.

Yp, way overrated, problem reading?

The present is 2013/14, where Dortmund have no Goetze, have an angry Lewandowski and probably won't have as much luck on their side to get through by ridiculous ref decisions. So, yeah, bookmark this and save it for 2014.

And by the way, RM vs Dortmund scores doesn't equal who is better. We won against Barca more often than not last year, were we better? They won the league, by the way. So, please, get it through your thick skulls that a team that finishes 25 points off the first spot in Bundesliga can't be the 2nd best team in the world. CL is a lucky competition and it always was, but go ahead and judge everything by it, you'll be in for a surprise every year.

As for RM, we'll replace Higuain with someone better and that will tip the scales in our favour, just as Barcelona will finally find a CB. Dortmund? They are done for the year.

lol the usual deluded predictions by RM fans that are usually wrong. The track record for Real Madrid's predictions isn't very good that's why no one will take predictions such as these seriously. Sign whoever else you like it won't matter until you actually prove something with your thus far failed Galaticos era. Replace Higuain with Suarez if you like doesn't mean anything.

An angry lewandowski wow that's great logic. Let's predict the entire season based on what mood Lewandowski is like. Also Gotze has been replaced with a class player in Mkihtarayan and also another quality player in Aubameyang and there is also talk of one more attacker. How do I know they'll be successful  signings? I don't, but people have more reason to believe they will given how Dortmund usually replaces their players well. Eg sahin for gundogan and reus for kagawa. Madrid however it's too hard to believe what comes out of their deluded mouths given their incorrect hyping year after year.

25 points behind bayern? Well 15 points behind Barca doesn't look too good either. Is the quality between these 2 teams really that big. Anyway you have no proof to say RM would do any better in the bundesliga. It's not just 25 points behind any team, it's 25 points behind comfortably the best team in the world right now. Dortmunds starting eleven is actually closer to Bayern's than most people think. However Dortmund don't have the luxury that Bayern have with squad depth, that's a better reason on how to fall so behind in the league.

Clandestino wrote:

BORUSSIA!! wrote:
LOL you're clearly one of those people that only rates a team on what high profile expensive signings they have by putting Madrid and City there. You shouldn't have even made it past the round of 16 because of ref decisions. At least BVB was the superior team in both legs against Malaga but a lot of wastefulness nearly cost them. Dortmund's wins were all very convincing in the CL season, Madrid never won comfortably against any decent side. You can only talk about luck and whatnot when you have CL runs like Chelsea did whose own fans themselves will admit to it.

Look up overrated in the dictionary and you'll find Madrid. This club spends more money than anyone else year after year and before the season their deluded fans hype them about how great they are, how they're going to win the treble and why the god's gift to football because of their illustrious history that other could care less about. However every year they prove nothing.

If Madrid performed as well as Dortmund did last champions league season they wouldn't shut up about good they are, but when Dortmund does it's just lucky and you play down the whole CL competition. The very exact competition which RM obsesses over more than any other club to win. However this won't happen because RM's team just isn't good enough and I look forward to them this season getting their hopes up as usual for their long awaited "la decima", yet falling short again.

I am afraid anger has gotten the better of you. In your little rant you are first talking to me, than to the club, then to the internet fans you read about, and then to which ever RM fan you had conversations with the last 10 years.

When or if you calm yourself down and sort this confused head of yours, we can continue our discussion.

I am calm and everything I've said is true. My opinion from what you've said makes me think the club, the internet fans, any RM fan i've ever come cross are no different to you and the large bulk of delusion among that club.


In the end a thread like this shouldn't really be made until the season is under way or even finishes. It's too hard to predict right now and make lists even though I made one myself. But really I went off last season's results to make a list and there isn't much indication that teams will be significantly different so far. Though in a year's time that will change when we witness possibly new results and champions. But for certain fans of certain clubs they are too deluded to contribute to such a thread.


ps




Dortmund>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Madrid

BORUSSIA!! wrote:
I am calm and everything I've said is true. My opinion from what you've said makes me think he club, the internet fans, any RM fan i've ever come cross are no different to you and the large bulk of delusion among that club.

In the end a thread like this shouldn't really be made until the season is under way or even finishes. It's too hard to predict right now and make lists even though I made one myself. But really I went off last season's results to make a list and there isn't much indication that teams will be significantly different so far. Though in a year's time that will change when we witness possibly new results and champions. But for certain fans of certain clubs they are too deluded to contribute to such a thread.

So let me get this one right: the only way to contribute to this thread is to have an exact same opinion as you? Everything else is delusion and by default not a contribution to the thread? Because that right there is a thread-ender if ever saw one...

Anyway, I stand by my evaluation: Bayern, City-Barca-Real, then Dortmund. If you think my opinion is outrageous and "doesn't contribute to the thread", I wonder what you will say when you see William Hill's odds for CL 13/14.
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb/betting/e/4442219/UEFA%2BChampions%2BLeague%2B%252d%2BOutright%2B%25282013%252f14%2529.html

Now, please, write them an outraged email with a 2 page rant how they are deluded and post it here, LOL

Clandestino wrote:

BORUSSIA!! wrote:
I am calm and everything I've said is true. My opinion from what you've said makes me think he club, the internet fans, any RM fan i've ever come cross are no different to you and the large bulk of delusion among that club.

In the end a thread like this shouldn't really be made until the season is under way or even finishes. It's too hard to predict right now and make lists even though I made one myself. But really I went off last season's results to make a list and there isn't much indication that teams will be significantly different so far. Though in a year's time that will change when we witness possibly new results and champions. But for certain fans of certain clubs they are too deluded to contribute to such a thread.

So let me get this one right: the only way to contribute to this thread is to have an exact same opinion as you? Everything else is delusion and by default not a contribution to the thread? Because that right there is a thread-ender if ever saw one...

Anyway, I stand by my evaluation: Bayern, City-Barca-Real, then Dortmund. If you think my opinion is outrageous and "doesn't contribute to the thread", I wonder what you will say when you see William Hill's odds for CL 13/14.
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb/betting/e/4442219/UEFA%2BChampions%2BLeague%2B%252d%2BOutright%2B%25282013%252f14%2529.html

Now, please, write them an outraged email with a 2 page rant how they are deluded and post it here, LOL

Wow you just made yourself look like a bigger idiot now. Judging by that people will actually think you based your predictions of what betting agencies think. I mean let's just close the thread and see where they rate teams. The funny thing is, i've actually mentioned this to others. The delusion and overrating is so big at RM they can confuse anyone. Fans, players, managers, the media and bookmakers too.

Pre-season isn't enough to judge anything. Ancelotti may be an improvement or he may be a flop, however the main point is it's a new manager so last season's results/performances can't be looked at.

Clandestino wrote:Anyway, I stand by my evaluation: Bayern, City-Barca-Real, then Dortmund.

I think it is somewhat amusing that you put two teams that Dortmund easily beat and actually even played off the pitch before the BVB.

As for betting odds - if these were really saying anything, then there would be far more people making big money from bets. Normally betting is a losing business, though.

Listen, boy, first of all, name calling is not tolerated here - or so I've been told. Second, I've made my opinion and am supporting it by bookmakers, among others which you passed by. Bookmakers do this for a living, I should what make my opinions based on what a little boy called Borussia says on a football forum? Who the fok are you anyway?

And it's not just Real Madrid, they rate your little club at 9th place!!! The bookmakers are confused because of the hype?! Oh my God, you should have paid more attention in school. Go ahead, use their "confusion" and make a few thousand dollars...

Calma, calma! (And this is addressed to all participants here!)

something-red wrote:

free_cat wrote:I can't understand why City signed Negredo though. And they let go Tevez and Ballotelli who are better players. Difficult to understand IMO.

Also, how did they manage to get Jovetic for the same price as Negredo or much cheaper than Fernandinho? Are Fiorentina idiots for being the only ones not to milk City?

Mancini sold Balotelli 'cause he's not as good as everyone makes to be. Most overrated coach the world has seen. Tried to put all the blame on Mario.

Tevez was sold because he was on 220k a week. Negredo signing makes no sense with that said, considering they already had a better player in Dzeko. Txizi stuffed up there or Pellegrini wants to play 2 strikers. Still don't know why they went for Negredo though. But watch Luis Suarez get a ban for saying his name now, if he doesn't go to Madrid I mean.

Jovetic went for cheap because he was forced out. Jovetic went for 22m; not 27. Unless you're talking Euros.

Overrated coach lol ffs. People considered Balo overrated during his time at City. In fact, Mancini was the one to give him a proper chance inspite of his attitude issues back in Inter. An offer of 20m Euros for the a fourth choice striker was too good to refuse. dat hypocrisy

Mancini was never wanted by Txiki and co. in the first place. That's why he hardly had got any funds last season. Tevez was sold because the team wants to start afresh and also because of his high wages.

The hype surrounding Pellegrini is astounding. I'll be having the last laugh..

Clandestino wrote:Dortmun are way overrated and this is what happens when you go far in the CL - a lucky competition to start with. A year ago they were last in a group of Arsenal, Marseille and Olympiacos, for crying out loud. They reffed their way to this year's SF's anyway. Watch them fail miserably this season.

Dortmund to get exposed this season.

Clandestino wrote:Bookmakers do this for a living, I should what make my opinions based on what a little boy called Borussia says on a football forum? Who the fok are you anyway?

And it's not just Real Madrid, they rate your little club at 9th place!!! The bookmakers are confused because of the hype?! Oh my God, you should have paid more attention in school. Go ahead, use their "confusion" and make a few thousand dollars...

You know how betting odds work? They are just a subjective majority vote and rarely based on facts. You should see the cool odds England always gets as soon as the question arises who will win the next World Cup

Clandestino wrote:Listen, boy, first of all, name calling is not tolerated here - or so I've been told. Second, I've made my opinion and am supporting it by bookmakers, among others which you passed by. Bookmakers do this for a living, I should what make my opinions based on what a little boy called Borussia says on a football forum? Who the fok are you anyway?

And it's not just Real Madrid, they rate your little club at 9th place!!! The bookmakers are confused because of the hype?! Oh my God, you should have paid more attention in school. Go ahead, use their "confusion" and make a few thousand dollars...

Oh lord stop using what bookmakers are saying before you embarrass yourself anymore. I mean if they're so accurate I would be a very rich person, so would anyone. Actually no they wouldn't even exist if gambling was that easy.

rwo power wrote:
You know how betting odds work? They are just a subjective majority vote and rarely based on facts. You should see the cool odds England always gets as soon as the question arises who will win the next World Cup

Right, so it's exactly the opposite? The teams who are ranked at 500/1 are actually the favourites?

On a more serious note, I wasn't calling the bookies fool proof, but they are a solid indicator that I am there or thereabouts with my reasoning. I didn't say Celtic will win it. Of course it's more or less personal preference with the differences being that small, but I won't have that guy calling me an idiot just because I don't rate his one season CL wonder team higher than Barcelona, City and Madrid. I am well within my rights to say that, it's at the very least a completely reasonable opinion and I think I gave a good enough explanation as to why I feel this way.

But if he wants to make it personal with continuous insults, I'd be more than willing to oblige.

Why don't we act a little more mature and avoid the petty insults eh?

Clandestino wrote:

rwo power wrote:
You know how betting odds work? They are just a subjective majority vote and rarely based on facts. You should see the cool odds England always gets as soon as the question arises who will win the next World Cup

Right, so it's exactly the opposite? The teams who are ranked at 500/1 are actually the favourites?

On a more serious note, I wasn't calling the bookies fool proof, but they are a solid indicator that I am there or thereabouts with my reasoning. I didn't say Celtic will win it. Of course it's more or less personal preference with the differences being that small, but I won't have that guy calling me an idiot just because I don't rate his one season CL wonder team higher than Barcelona, City and Madrid. I am well within my rights to say that, it's at the very least a completely reasonable opinion and I think I gave a good enough explanation as to why I feel this way.

But if he wants to make it personal with continuous insults, I'd be more than willing to oblige.

Thinking bookmakers are a credible source and some of your opinions on football has given me some reason to believe that you are a bit thick. Also Lol Barca, City and Madrid? Other than Barca what have the other two done to make themselves the benchmark. Dortmund has achieved more than both these clubs in recent years. One CL wonder team? Now you're predicting the future. I'm sorry but fortune tellers generally get laughed at and most people do see them as idiots.

So if Dortmund are a 1 season wonder, what exactly does that make City? The worst 'big spending' team ever to have graced the CL?

Once again your logic is terrible. You use Dortmunds supposed 'one season wonder' status (Which is just a stab in the dark in the first place, unless you are claiming to have some insight into the future) to rank them behind City of all teams. Who have twice failed to qualify from the groups, the latter attempt ended with City failing to collect a SINGLE win in the competition.

Explain to me how City are now ahead of Dortmund, and do so without citing a bookmakers odds as your reasons.

Tomwin Lannister wrote:So if Dortmund are a 1 season wonder, what exactly does that make City? The worst 'big spending' team ever to have graced the CL?

Once again your logic is terrible. You use Dortmunds supposed 'one season wonder' status (Which is just a stab in the dark in the first place, unless you are claiming to have some insight into the future) to rank them behind City of all teams. Who have twice failed to qualify from the groups, the latter attempt ended with City failing to collect a SINGLE win in the competition.

Explain to me how City are now ahead of Dortmund, and do so without citing a bookmakers odds as your reasons.

Actually, the 1 season wonder is meant to be a description of the present, not the future. Simply said, it means that they have achieved a great feat of reaching a CL final once, and failed miserably the year before, so it's just a recent history description. Not sure why anyone would think I was predicting the future. But if I'd be making a prediction for the future, I'd say they won't repeat their feat in the next 5 years. Now, that's a stab in the dark.

As for Real Madrid, I think that one is pretty clear. 3 SF's in a row, every single time very close to the final. Now that is some form of consistency. And just for the record, I predicted RM won't repeat their last year achievements under Ancelotti, but I'd still say we have a better chance of winning the CL than Dortmund.

And finally, City. Let's first just have a look at the thread title: "Which are the strongest teams in Europe after the latest transfers?" Yes, City have a poor history in the CL. But they have a coach I rate pretty highly, had a pretty poor season last time round and I think they can only do better, and most importantly they've bought well. They've bought a good RW they have been missing, they've strengthened their CM options and have acquired good attacking back-ups in Jovetic and Negredo. All in all, I believe they've made a great stride forward and I am rating them highly because of it. Is that really so outrageous? For instance, Dortmund were last of the group in 11/12 and in the finals the following year. Did they really improve that much in 1 season? That's why I call CL a lucky competition.

Clandestino wrote:For instance, Dortmund were last of the group in 11/12 and in the finals the following year. Did they really improve that much in 1 season? That's why I call CL a lucky competition.

Dortmund did improve that much indeed.

2010/11 was Jürgen Klopp's first ever attempt at a European competition in the EL with Dortmund. Okay, then he messed up as he had to learn.

2011/12 was Jürgen Klopp's first ever attempt in the CL. He went about things naively there and paid quite some tuition fee, too.

2012/2013 was Klopps second run at the CL and he used what he learned in his former attempts to improve his tactics considerably, and look where he ended then.

And his results in the group stage were by no means "lucky". Dortmund topped the group of death as the Pot 4 team without getting defeated. Lucky?

rwo power wrote:
Dortmund did improve that much indeed.

2010/11 was Jürgen Klopp's first ever attempt at a European competition in the EL with Dortmund. Okay, then he messed up as he had to learn.

2011/12 was Jürgen Klopp's first ever attempt in the CL. He went about things naively there and paid quite some tuition fee, too.

2012/2013 was Klopps second run at the CL and he used what he learned in his former attempts to improve his tactics considerably, and look where he ended then.

And his results in the group stage were by no means "lucky". Dortmund topped the group of death as the Pot 4 team without getting defeated. Lucky?

Well, you can say that, but you can also say that in 11/12 they won the league while in 12/13 they comfortably lost it. And we all know that the League is the most consistent competition in football. Also, I wasn't claiming luck in the group stages or throughout the CL campaign, I just said they got lucky against Malaga - and luck is essential in all good CL campaigns, I am not holding it against them. Basically, they had a great CL run, but for me that is about it, they are not a football superpower - they need to be up there consistently but I believe they will start to fade come this season.

Let me reiterate yet again, that I think differences between top teams are very minimal. I am not saying BVB suck or are third class, I just think that the first 3 challengers for Bayern are City, Real and Barca. Not sure why this stirred up so much name calling, surely there must be others that don't think Borussia is the 2nd best team on the planet?

Results aren't the only thing that should be looked at in order to determine which team is the best, 2nd best etc.

Am I the only person who understood what Clandes is writing? Anyway, Bayern still look the strongest and probably would match that with actual productivity over the course of the season. City and Real Madrid have improved somewhat and should be a worry to most teams.

Juventus solidified their Scudetto winning team for next year but I still feel they would be a QF exit waiting, could be wrong though. Napoli improved greatly but I can see them choking, again.

Still not too sure about Barcelona though...