False 9 by choice or design?

by Mr Nick09 Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 17:27

Do you think Messi is playing false 9 with Argentina because the coach his kissing his butt and wants to make him happy, or is it a tactical decision just to imitate Barcelona?

It doesnt take a genius to figure that argentina cant play like barca with masch, cambiasso and banega in the midfield, so, is the coach forcing the issue or is messi imposing himself in that position by ego or standing?

by chinomaster182 Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 17:34

Both, happy Messi = productive Messi

Also the current logic says that Messi can give his best results when he plays in his Barca role, therefore Argentina wants to get the best out of one of the best players in the world and are constructing the team based on his "needs".

by Yuri Yukuv Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 17:36

Its just a way argentina tried to avoid repeating the WC with maradona.

Funny enough, Argentina WC > Argentina Copa so far.

by Giovanni10 Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 17:43

but that's just it, they cannot play like Barca with Masch, Cambiasso and Banega in midfield. If you think about it, Mascherano does not have the same ball playing and passing technique as Busquets, nor does Cambiasso compare technically to Xavi and Banega is a completely different player to Iniesta.

If they were trying to create a Barca midfield then the only players who could fill the specific roles (definitely saying they won't be better at it) are:

Busquets role - Cambiasso
Xavi role - Banega
Iniesta role - Pastore

but now, there is no guarantee that Messi will be able to link up with Pastoere the way he does with Iniesta. However, I do think Pastore is a good idea, because he can play close to Messi in attacking areas and there is the potential for great fluidity in that combination.

To answer your question, with Pastore in, Messi at false 9 could still work. Right now I don't think he is playing there by choice, he looks very frustrated. This is a coaching faux pas. Messi cannot play false 9 because the midfield does not support him enough in attacking areas and the wide men in the 4-3-3 keep on coming inside.

The sooner they realise the false 9 4-3-3 has flopped with the players on the pitch, the quicker they can fix the 4-3-3.

by Guest Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 17:48

They have a whole gang of WC direct attacking players like Di Maria, Higuain, Tevez, etc. Yet, just because Messi prefers it, they play a possession game? It makes absolutely zero sense and I blame the manager for this.

What is Messi going to do, not play for Argentina NT? Put together the best system for the squad and have Messi adapt to it. If he's the godly player everyone thinks he is, he should be able to do it easily.

by Khaled Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 17:52

... deleted ...

by Khaled Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 17:58

Khaledbarca wrote:NO one is linking with him...

- Weak defence, very slow in build up, alot of stupid mistakes

- Midfield has zero creativity.. 2 matches no one created a single chance for Messi " his teammates" while he created 3 or 4 in each match.. yes he is average compared to his performance @ Barca for the above reasons... plus he is playing very deep.. he needs a playmaker who can pass behind him.. he can't go 60 meters deep, help in build up, create chances & score, especially when the opponents are playing with 10 defenders, he can't dribble 10 players lol.. he managed to create chances for tevez, lavezzi, aguero.. by dribbling 3 players than make a through pass but no one finished them..

- add to this, Tevez & Lavezzi playing very individual.. when they have the ball they run towards the corner and lose the ball lol!!

NO TEAM WORK!!

- false 9 or playmaker role @ argentina won't work for Messi.. he was most dangerous playing @ Right Wing..

imo

1- Pastore playmaker
2- Aguero & higuian/Di maria replace tevez & lavezzi!!

----------Higuain---------
Aguero - Pastore - Messi
---Banega ------Masch------

by Ganso Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 18:00

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Do you think Messi is playing false 9 with Argentina because the coach his kissing his butt and wants to make him happy, or is it a tactical decision just to imitate Barcelona?

It doesnt take a genius to figure that argentina can play like barca with masch, cambiasso and banega in the midfield, so, is the coach forcing the issue or is messi imposing himself in that position by ego or standing?

what?no way.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 18:01

Khaledbarca wrote:
Khaledbarca wrote:NO one is linking with him...

- Weak defence, very slow in build up, alot of stupid mistakes

- Midfield has zero creativity.. 2 matches no one created a single chance for Messi " his teammates" while he created 3 or 4 in each match.. yes he is average compared to his performance @ Barca for the above reasons... plus he is playing very deep.. he needs a playmaker who can pass behind him.. he can't go 60 meters deep, help in build up, create chances & score, especially when the opponents are playing with 10 defenders, he can't dribble 10 players lol.. he managed to create chances for tevez, lavezzi, aguero.. by dribbling 3 players than make a through pass but no one finished them..

- add to this, Tevez & Lavezzi playing very individual.. when they have the ball they run towards the corner and lose the ball lol!!

NO TEAM WORK!!

- false 9 or playmaker role @ argentina won't work for Messi.. he was most dangerous playing @ Right Wing..

imo

1- Pastore playmaker
2- Aguero & higuian/Di maria replace tevez & lavezzi!!

----------Higuain---------
Aguero - Pastore - Messi
---Banega ------Masch------

What Khaled said Thumbs up

by ronalessi Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 18:02

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Its just a way argentina tried to avoid repeating the WC with maradona.

Funny enough, Argentina WC > Argentina Copa so far.

False 9 by choice or design? Argentina_398407t

by VanDeezNuts Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 18:11

due to the lack of success in the 2 most recent matches.. has to be to keep messi happy.

there was no change in players and no tactical change. did the manager expect different results?

by Mr Nick09 Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 18:16

deezydeez wrote:due to the lack of success in the 2 most recent matches.. has to be to keep messi happy.

there was no change in players and no tactical change. did the manager expect different results?

well, logically, you cant change on a game to game basis. The coach had an idea at the start of the tournament, so he had to see it through. Now it's do or die, and he has to make a change.

by DV7 Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 18:28

What I wonder is why do they play Lavezzi when they can play either Higuain, Aguero or Di Maria instead? If I was the coach, Id play Messi, Higuain & Aguero.

Why is Lavezzi a starter????

by Ganso Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 18:43

DV7 wrote:What I wonder is why do they play Lavezzi when they can play either Higuain, Aguero or Di Maria instead? If I was the coach, Id play Messi, Higuain & Aguero.

Why is Lavezzi a starter????

quite hilarious how people were praising lavezzi so much and how he connected so well with messi just before copa.

i wonder why everyone has changed their minds all of the sudden

by Mr Nick09 Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 18:58

It's all because of Tevez

by Sushi Master Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 19:04

Argentina have such crap defense, that a fast paced counter-attacking style which I'd say would suit them nicely won't work, because pressure on the defense means a lot of goals will be leaked.

by Guest Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 19:16

Sushi Master wrote:Argentina have such crap defense, that a fast paced counter-attacking style which I'd say would suit them nicely won't work, because pressure on the defense means a lot of goals will be leaked.

They're lining up the wrong defense too. Why Masch isn't at CB instead of Milito or Burdisso and Pastore in his place as a mid is just beyond me. Of course, Garay is better than both Milito and Burdisso too. You also have Higuain, Di Maria and Aguero coming off the bench...

They are running a 4-3-3 when they should be in a 4-2-3-1 if the manager had any brains.

i don't understand a thing about the Argentina lineup.

by Doc Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 19:19

Regardless, they need to beat Costa Rica by any means necessary...

by Sushi Master Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 19:38

sportsczy wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:Argentina have such crap defense, that a fast paced counter-attacking style which I'd say would suit them nicely won't work, because pressure on the defense means a lot of goals will be leaked.

They're lining up the wrong defense too. Why Masch isn't at CB instead of Milito or Burdisso and Pastore in his place as a mid is just beyond me. Of course, Garay is better than both Milito and Burdisso too. You also have Higuain, Di Maria and Aguero coming off the bench...

They are running a 4-3-3 when they should be in a 4-2-3-1 if the manager had any brains.

i don't understand a thing about the Argentina lineup.

They could also play Otamendi who's had a great season with Porto and even with lack of experience I'd chose over Milito in a heartbeat. Even Garay.

I think we all are asking ourselves that question, and it's a good thing even die hard fans are asking them, too. I see Batista sacked in the near future with certainty.

by Mr Nick09 Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 19:42

Otamendi isnt even at there, but Garay is Razz

by Sushi Master Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 19:44

I know, the point is he should be. I did not understand the Milito callup at all, after so many injuries and bench time at Barca. I guess Batista said, "oh, he's Pique's backup, he must play like him and do those crazy runs, lol".

by The Franchise Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 20:00

Seems simple to me.

The old adage of playing your best player in his best position.

by Mr Nick09 Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 20:02

The Franchise wrote:Seems simple to me.

The old adage of playing your best player in his best position.

so you think he is best in the middle?

by The Franchise Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 20:10

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Seems simple to me.

The old adage of playing your best player in his best position.

so you think he is best in the middle?

Yeah, sure I do.

But I am not so sure the players around him are the best fits.

To play that kind of position, the point is your outnumbering the opponents midfield. But you still need players who will occupy the defence of the opponent which will pull the lines further apart and give more space in between those lines.

Right now, you got a midfield who are not playing the sort of patient, possession oriented and accurate passing football needed to have the desire effect. Also, Tevez isnt really stretching the defence which will open up more space in between the lines.

That being said, tactics isnt the only problem. The pressure Messi is under is immense, not even he can cope with it, the expectations are unrealistic.

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