[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

This is really interesting

http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/uegam/the_hound_is_sansas_wolf/

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/28aqvm/spoilers_all_the_effects_of_favoritism_on_how_the/

Completely agree with this.

M99 wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/28aqvm/spoilers_all_the_effects_of_favoritism_on_how_the/

Completely agree with this.

Bang on.

Also the theory that the Hound is Lady's replacement is an interesting idea. It would fit in well with Cleganebowl.

Btw I forgot to thank you Dante and BC for the discussion of the Sailor's Wife, reminded me of a few details I'd forgotten and also provided welcome new information for me to mull over.

Has anyone ever come across the theory that Theon is indeed a kinslayer, not because he can be considered to have been a true brother to the Starks in the eyes of the Westerosi, but because one of the miller's sons that he killed in the place of Bran and Rickon was his bastard? It's stretching to an extent, however it's one of those theories that is possible, but we'll have to wait and see whether it's true once George writes the final books.

http://branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Kinslayer.html

RealGunner wrote:This is really interesting

http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/uegam/the_hound_is_sansas_wolf/

Isnt the Hound dead ?

Adit wrote:

RealGunner wrote:This is really interesting

http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/uegam/the_hound_is_sansas_wolf/

Isnt the Hound dead ?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gravedigger/Theories

Adit wrote:

RealGunner wrote:This is really interesting

http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/uegam/the_hound_is_sansas_wolf/

Isnt the Hound dead ?

Have you read the books? Just asking because I haven't seen you much in this thread and u might be in the wrong one lol

I'm not even mad.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Bf566jPsiyo/U6CRFXoKakI/AAAAAAADWFo/i_YrngyHlWg/s1600/617+lenah.jpg

BarrileteCosmico wrote:She could just be called the sailor's wife because she's a whore and sailors are a whore's biggest customer. Don't see it as an impediment.

Anyways just watched the finale:

No LSH? WTF? I have been trolled hard by Lena Hadley.

No big Tysha was not a whore reveal. This will make Tyrion's moping around next season seem kinda ridiculous. Varys going with him makes for an interesting change.

Stannis' reveal was not as epic as I pictured it. It just seemed that Jon got captured and without an ounce of suspense Stannis showed up.

Brienne vs Hound fight was GOAT and gritty as f***.

well , i see where you're coming from . You're entitled to your opinion as much as i am . But i do find it too generic and quite unfounded that The Sailor's Wife is because of what you said. Not because we lack info on whores and sailors of Asoiaf , but we do have too many hints and information than we should have about this whole case. I think her husband , was indeed a Sailor and there's the notion-rumour-sort-of-prophecy about her husband ... that he will return to her dead , in Daenerys vision in the house of the undying and also in one of Arya's chapters.

The weddings were loud and jolly, with a lot of drinking. Whenever Cat happened by with her barrow, the Sailor’s Wife would insist that her new husband buy some oysters, to stiffen him for the consummation. She was good that way, and quick to laugh as well, but Cat thought there was something sad about her too.
The other whores said that the Sailor’s Wife visited the Isle of the Gods on the days when her flower was in bloom, and knew all the gods who lived there, even the ones that Braavos had forgotten. They said she went to pray for her first husband, her true husband, who had been lost at sea when she was a girl no older than Lanna. “She thinks that if she finds the right god, maybe he will send the winds and blow her old love back to her,” said one-eyed Yna, who had known her longest, “but I pray it never happens. Her love is dead, I could taste that in her blood. If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse.”

I really cannot agree that this is just some random , common stuff going on here. It's either Gerion Lannister and in one of his past travels , could be early on when he started his quest for Brightroar to Valyria , married her and then left , or it has simply nothing to do with neither Tyrion nor Gerion.

But Lanna & with long golden hair? The Sailor's Wife? I really don't think that's a coincedence and we have quite too much info to deduct that her husband , is not actually Tyrion. Unless of course , for some reason , Martin is feeding us blatant lies for a whore and her daughter that we might never see again. Since , you know , Arya is leaving Braavos and there's literally no connection after that.

From A Clash Of Kings, Daenerys IV:
A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

could be that this has nothing to do with Gerion.. or the husband of the famous whore. But one can make the connection , given the info we have on Gerion.. left with his ship , very possibly dead and the description about him smiling , even sadly , fits Gerion's character who was nothing like Tywin , quite the opposite actually. Eyes bright , probably leads to the corpse being a wight ? But a wight in Braavos seems strange.. so this will either happen in the North , or maybe , the long winter will spread far away from westeros when winter comes for good.

It's far fetched , yes. The only good reason i can think of , that this corpse is meant to be Gerion Lannister , is that particular ship has something very valuable on it. And that may be Brightroar and/or something of big importance yet.

Anyhow . Since the finale of GoT , where we didn't see the Tysha revelation from Jaime , (huge letdown i know) , i came to suspect that Tysha , might not have any role to play in the future , perhaps other than being a sad memory in Tyrion's head. Had Tysha been somewhere in the future books , waiting to impact the story big time , they would never change this. Tysha is forever lost to Tyrion or simply dead. I really do not expect Tyrion to see her again and thus , talking about the Sailor's wife and who's her husband , makes my initial interest decrease. To the point i flat out erase the possibility of the Sailor's Wife being Tysha , simply because of that.

Idk if it's Gerion , but in my view it fits. To what purpose , i cannot see. Again , it might be just some story telling , one of these unsolved mysteries which stay like that. Idk , if this particular vision of Daenerys in the house of the Undying , about that corpse standing at the prow of the ship is meant to be Gerion Lannister , well then , surely all the info about Gerion must have some particular purpose yet to be fullfiled.  

Whether all of that have to do with the Sailor's wife i don't know , i doubt Gerion-corpse with bright eyes will shore up out of the blue at the Happy Port , mainly because we have no POV there anymore to witness it , but i am quite sure there will be (at the very least) Gerion Lannister references on the Winds of Winter as well as all the past books had. Perhaps The Sailor's Wife never sees her lost husband again , but i have a strong feeling that we will at some point , either alive or as a corpse with bright eyes . I refuse to believe all that has been for nought , that's just lame.

Unless it's meant to be one of these unresolved mysteries of course and we are forever to guess what happened to The Sailor's Wife husband or to Gerion , who were both pressumed lost and dead at sea.

If that , pos Martin is pos

"A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly."

When I reread the House of the Undying prophecies after finishing the books my first instinct was that this referred to Connington leading Aegon's invasion of Westeros from across the sea, a man who knows he will die of greyscale, but it's an interesting idea.

I agree with you that the Sailor's Wife isn't Tysha though, it's inconceivable to me now that she would respond to that trauma by becoming a whore for real.

That prophecy for me is to do with Danys and Euron/Vicatrion. Prow of a ship. Grey lips could be of a greyjoy? some sort of clue . But it always came to be as something to do with those two.

Apart from that about Tysha , which is on it's own huge .

That particular part of the prophecies , or whatever it is anyway , cannot be about Jon Connington. It didn't happen and he's got nothing to do with ships after reaching Westeros.

Personally , i am almost convinced that the whore's husband was Gerion Lannister. However , once i get past that , i cannot connect the dots. Is he the Corsair King ? Is he dead and forever lost ? Will we see his corpse and his ship ? Particularly for the last one , well , that ship HAS to be something important , Gerion or not. Seeing it's part of the prophecies and all , we will see it one day.

A corpse is a corpse , however important said man was. But to also mention the ship in this line , if by any chance this is Gerion , this ship has something very important in it. And why not more info about his past life , maybe a diary ? Sailors do that. It's an interesting notion and since we can't build more uppon it , i guess , let's leave it at that.

Like you , i leave no chance for that woman to be Tysha and like i said in my previous post , i hold few to zero chances on seeing Tysha again. It all but confirmed it to me. Even if Tyrion learns anything one day , there's literaly no background for Tysha to "live" on the show anymore. And despite the show changing certain things from the books , something really that huge could never be changed. Hence why i think Tysha will remain a memory , unless we simply learn info about her and thats that , we're never seeing her on the books .

RealGunner wrote:That prophecy for me is to do with Danys and Euron/Vicatrion. Prow of a ship. Grey lips could be of a greyjoy? some sort of clue . But it always came to be as something to do with those two.

Could very well be , why not. Personally , i could see Victarion dying in TWOW , though corpse with bright eyes leads me to think of a wight . Not sure how Victarion would turn up like that. As for Euron , i could easily say the same . Even though he's in Westeros , who knows what will happen next.

It's a good mention , i admit that , yet i cannot connect anything to the Greyjoys other than the prow of the ship , say Euron's ship which prow is pretty distinguishable. Once past that , the corpse-wight thing certainly doesn't match up.

What do you mean by "it didn't happen"?

I don't think it can be assumed that Connington's connection to ships will end now that he has reached Westeros. He may well be forced into exile once more once the extent of his infliction is discovered, though I suspect it will be too late and Aegon's troops will suffer from a greyscale epidemic. Even if he dies in Westeros, his story line has been intimately connected to a life on the water, whether it be the POV going down the river where he contracts greyscale or returning across the sea bearing a Targaryen heir which would be a relevant vision for Dany to see.

The fact that the eyes of the corpse are bright suggests to me that the character is alive but condemned to a certain death, as would fit the progression of greyscale.

If this is wrong though I'd be more inclined to think it is linked with the Greyjoys, as the lips smiling, even if sadly, may be meant to suggest the "joy."

Well the full prophecy is

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness...mother of dragons...bride of death...

IMO Those prophecies have to do with Daenerys' husbands. The first one is obviously Khal Drogo. The blue flower one is to do with Jon, while the middle one is the one we are contesting.

Bride of death. 3 husbands that will die who she loves/loved so Hizhdar doesn't count in this. Drogo died being the first one. 3rd one will be Jon, while the second for me is Victarion because he is the one who is going to bring her to Westeros so she will probably marry him.

Of course it's just my theory and could very well be wrong. And I do hope its wrong because Jon will die if he marries Daenerys if that prophecy is to be believed.

As for the finale. It was the best finale ever , that much we cannot really argue about. And in comparison to last season's , well , this takes the cake pretty easily.But.

No LSH (not necessarily bad , though it must be said , it would have been huge as far cliffhangers go)

No Tysha revelation (which had me in doubts as to why Tyrion was looking for his father in the first place.. though i admit , he had good enough reasons anyway)

Bloodraven. Well , much better looking in the show , wasn't he ? lol. Other than that , i was happy with everything else , including Jojen and what's supposed to mean for the Paste theory.

Also ,pretty much what else has been already mentioned here.

Let down , for the book readers .

From purely TV standards and expectations , it was foqin awesome. The legend of Gin Aley would be foqin pleased to watch Tywin foqin Lannister die like he did in the shiter

Tywin , you will always be hated , thus never forgotten

Good rotting in Seven Hells m8

Charles Dance shall be missed. Literally sad that we won't see more of him in GoT from now on ,he was simply great . The very definition of Tywin Lannister on the screen.

dostoevsky wrote:What do you mean by "it didn't happen"?

I don't think it can be assumed that Connington's connection to ships will end now that he has reached Westeros. He may well be forced into exile once more once the extent of his infliction is discovered, though I suspect it will be too late and Aegon's troops will suffer from a greyscale epidemic. Even if he dies in Westeros, his story line has been intimately connected to a life on the water, whether it be the POV going down the river where he contracts greyscale or returning across the sea bearing a Targaryen heir which would be a relevant vision for Dany to see.

The fact that the eyes of the corpse are bright suggests to me that the character is alive but condemned to a certain death, as would fit the progression of greyscale.

If this is wrong though I'd be more inclined to think it is linked with the Greyjoys, as the lips smiling, even if sadly, may be meant to suggest the "joy."

By it didn't happen i meant that Jon Con arrived at Westeros alive , never stood as a corpse in any prow. After that his dealings is on the land and i cannot see how he will end up in such a way. To me that sentence means someone and his ship came from the sea and will reveal something huge. I cannot , personally , connect it with Jon Con at all.

About the Greyjoys , this is something i do not rule out , sure. It could be about one of the two.

He's been a dead man walking since he fell into the river though, he's effectively a corpse when he reaches Westeros as he has no hope for survival. The progression of the greyscale has been very rapid and we've heard that when it takes with adults they are doomed. A child might survive the affliction, like Shireen, but for those who get it later in life, they're doomed.

Martin has classified those currently living amongst the dead before in visions. Theon has a dream in which the characters are all dead in A Clash of Kings and Robb turns up at the very end of the dream, foreshadowing his inclusion in this list at the Red Wedding. Jamie's dream as well in which he sees Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne and others amongst the dead foreshadows Tywin's demise and likely Cersei.

Dante wrote:As for the finale. It was the best finale ever , that much we cannot really argue about. And in comparison to last season's , well , this takes the cake pretty easily.But.

No LSH (not necessarily bad , though it must be said , it would have been huge as far cliffhangers go)

No Tysha revelation (which had me in doubts as to why Tyrion was looking for his father in the first place.. though i admit , he had good enough reasons anyway)

Bloodraven. Well , much better looking in the show , wasn't he ? lol. Other than that , i was happy with everything else , including Jojen and what's supposed to mean for the Paste theory.

Also ,pretty much what else has been already mentioned here.

Let down , for the book readers .

From purely TV standards and expectations , it was foqin awesome. The legend of Gin Aley would be foqin pleased to watch Tywin foqin Lannister die like he did in the shiter

Tywin , you will always be hated , thus never forgotten

Good rotting in Seven Hells m8

Charles Dance shall be missed. Literally sad that we won't see more of him in GoT from now on ,he was simply great . The very definition of Tywin Lannister on the screen.

I think the show has not only messed with Tyrion's scenes in this episode but crucially with Jamie's portrayal and that's something I'm very upset with. The Tower of the Kingsguard was one place Jamie holds sacred and yet where he was supposed to refuse Cersei, he gives himself to her, stalling his character development and undoing all of the work he did with Brienne to try and restore his honour. He was even looking at his entry in the book of the Kingsguard when the scene begins, a page that symbolises his legacy and honour more than anything else, yet he chose to sully it. Terrible portrayal by the show writers.

RealGunner wrote:Well the full prophecy is

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness...mother of dragons...bride of death...

IMO Those prophecies have to do with Daenerys' husbands. The first one is obviously Khal Drogo. The blue flower one is to do with Jon, while the middle one is the one we are contesting.

Bride of death. 3 husbands that will die who she loves/loved so Hizhdar doesn't count in this. Drogo died being the first one. 3rd one will be Jon, while the second for me is Victarion because he is the one who is going to bring her to Westeros so she will probably marry him.

Of course it's just my theory and could very well be wrong. And I do hope its wrong because Jon will die if he marries Daenerys if that prophecy is to be believed.

Interesting. Not sure how to respond to this , i would have to do some rereading or research first .. but i always held that notion since finishing the books that Victarion won't survive wow , maybe that's why , Daenerys will kill him? Or whatever , dead it is anyway.

I'd say it could well be that this line is about him and not Gerion . If that indeed turns out to be about her 'husbands'. Not sure what to say about Victarion and Jon marrying Daenerys.. i believe we won't see any of this , but as always we have to wait and see.

I trully hate the idead of Jon marrying Daenerys. However it ends.

Moqorro is the key in this. What's his deal in all of this? why is he helping Victarion all of a sudden? something isn't right. He is obviously similar to Melisandre and have visions and magic in him. I don't trust him at all.

And then there is Euron. His gifts are always poisonous. Like the Dusky woman. She doesn't seem right to me either. And the Horn. Why would Euron trust Victarion with all of this all of a sudden? Euron has something up his sleeve(unless he is daario lol)

I am like you with Victarion. He is going to die. Maybe soon. Maybe by Euron because Daenerys won't kill him.

There are so many theories lol. Some say that Theon is the one who has grey lips and being an iron born, he will die on the ship. The Jon Conninghton theory also seems right because of grey scale.

dostoevsky wrote:He's been a dead man walking since he fell into the river though, he's effectively a corpse when he reaches Westeros as he has no hope for survival. The progression of the greyscale has been very rapid and we've heard that when it takes with adults they are doomed. A child might survive the affliction, like Shireen, but for those who get it later in life, they're doomed.

Martin has classified those currently living amongst the dead before in visions. Theon has a dream in which the characters are all dead in A Clash of Kings and Robb turns up at the very end of the dream, foreshadowing his inclusion in this list at the Red Wedding. Jamie's dream as well in which he sees Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne and others amongst the dead foreshadows Tywin's demise and likely Cersei.

In metaphorical terms i can agree with this .. but what's with stood at the prow of a ship? Not sure how it all works out in the end. Forget about this being about Gerion , if that is meant for Daenerys husbands , then Jon Con cannot be who we talk about , right?

The rest part i totally agree with , it would certainly solidify what you said. But again , it's probably to do with her husbands or meant to be husbands , as of now.

dostoevsky wrote:

Dante wrote:As for the finale. It was the best finale ever , that much we cannot really argue about. And in comparison to last season's , well , this takes the cake pretty easily.But.

No LSH (not necessarily bad , though it must be said , it would have been huge as far cliffhangers go)

No Tysha revelation (which had me in doubts as to why Tyrion was looking for his father in the first place.. though i admit , he had good enough reasons anyway)

Bloodraven. Well , much better looking in the show , wasn't he ? lol. Other than that , i was happy with everything else , including Jojen and what's supposed to mean for the Paste theory.

Also ,pretty much what else has been already mentioned here.

Let down , for the book readers .

From purely TV standards and expectations , it was foqin awesome. The legend of Gin Aley would be foqin pleased to watch Tywin foqin Lannister die like he did in the shiter

Tywin , you will always be hated , thus never forgotten

Good rotting in Seven Hells m8

Charles Dance shall be missed. Literally sad that we won't see more of him in GoT from now on ,he was simply great . The very definition of Tywin Lannister on the screen.

I think the show has not only messed with Tyrion's scenes in this episode but crucially with Jamie's portrayal and that's something I'm very upset with. The Tower of the Kingsguard was one place Jamie holds sacred and yet where he was supposed to refuse Cersei, he gives himself to her, stalling his character development and undoing all of the work he did with Brienne to try and restore his honour. He was even looking at his entry in the book of the Kingsguard when the scene begins, a page that symbolises his legacy and honour more than anything else, yet he chose to sully it. Terrible portrayal by the show writers.

Yeap , i was thinking about that stuff and also read too much of it elsewhere. I have to agree , it doesn't really look good. It's completely different to what it was supposed to be . Jaime's arc has taken another path in the show ..

All that for his redemption arc , lol. But perhaps they want to build the whole ruined relationship with Cercei later on ? who knows what they have in mind , but this certainly doesn't fit in well. To book readers at least and i'd imagine , to attentive show watchers as well.

RealGunner wrote:Moqorro is the key in this. What's his deal in all of this? why is he helping Victarion all of a sudden? something isn't right. He is obviously similar to Melisandre and have visions and magic in him. I don't trust him at all.

And then there is Euron. His gifts are always poisonous. Like the Dusky woman. She doesn't seem right to me either. And the Horn. Why would Euron trust Victarion with all of this all of a sudden? Euron has something up his sleeve(unless he is daario lol)

I am like you with Victarion. He is going to die. Maybe soon. Maybe by Euron because Daenerys won't kill him.

There are so many theories lol. Some say that Theon is the one who has grey lips and being an iron born, he will die on the ship. The Jon Conninghton theory also seems right because of grey scale.

Probably. As for the theories and all , it gets to the point where your mind is so much filled with theories and whatnot , where you don't know what to think , expect , like or dislike , believe or disbelieve in. That's why i stopped reading theories for quite sometime actually , though i couldn't resist for long , read one that's it , reading every single crackpot once again

Seriously , i've told everyone. When Winds comes out , i shut down my phone , inform anyone i am not to be disturbed and lock down myself with some coffee for hours of reading Winds . Shit , eat , sleep then repeat the next day.



It's a year since i read adwd and i am aching to read the next book , i cannot possibly imagine what those people who have read the books since a game of thrones must be like. They must have gone mental by now , some of them might have possibly died and they never read what happened

Dante wrote:

dostoevsky wrote:He's been a dead man walking since he fell into the river though, he's effectively a corpse when he reaches Westeros as he has no hope for survival. The progression of the greyscale has been very rapid and we've heard that when it takes with adults they are doomed. A child might survive the affliction, like Shireen, but for those who get it later in life, they're doomed.

Martin has classified those currently living amongst the dead before in visions. Theon has a dream in which the characters are all dead in A Clash of Kings and Robb turns up at the very end of the dream, foreshadowing his inclusion in this list at the Red Wedding. Jamie's dream as well in which he sees Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne and others amongst the dead foreshadows Tywin's demise and likely Cersei.

In metaphorical terms i can agree with this .. but what's with stood at the prow of a ship? Not sure how it all works out in the end. Forget about this being about Gerion , if that is meant for Daenerys husbands , then Jon Con cannot be who we talk about , right?

The rest part i totally agree with , it would certainly solidify what you said. But again , it's probably to do with her husbands or meant to be husbands , as of now.

Standing at the prow of the ship in my eyes would represent his leadership of the invasion. Whilst Aegon is a bright lad and has received training in many areas, it is really Connington who is the experienced head and de facto leader, like Tywin to Tommen, though I think Aegon will grow very quickly in terms of responsibility.

Still, if it truly is about Dany's husbands then it might all be wrong, unless it was about Aegon, who was a potential husband, being taken away from Dany to instead claim Westeros for himself. I'm not convinced the passage is necessarily about husbands though, simply because I don't think Jon and Dany will ever be together and certainly not in marriage.

Also RG, I'm not certain that Moqorro is necessarily the shifty guy, I think Euron's security over Victarion was meant to be the dusky woman and she freaked out when she saw Moqorro.

Euron Greyjoy is going to be a huge player and one of Dany's main enemies.

According to Moqorro, he sees many threats to Daenerys in the flames. He can only see their shadows and claims the one that casts the most danger is:

“A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood"

This is clearly Euron. And also there is something else that I completely missed at first.

Euron Greyjoy reportedly captured four warlocks leaving a ship from Qarth. Euron killed one for threatening him and then fed him to the three remaining warlocks. The surviving warlocks are reportedly coaching Euron in black magic.

While visiting Meereen, Xaro Xhoan Daxos informs Daenerys Targaryen that not all her enemies are in Yunkai. He warns her to "beware men with cold hearts and blue lips".

He tells her that she had not been gone a fortnight when Pyat Pree set out from Qarth with three of his fellow warlocks to seek her in Pentos, in order to seek revenge on her for the burning of the House of the Undying. This implies to readers that the warlocks are most likely the ones captured by Euron Greyjoy - who came across four warlocks when he captured a certain galleas out of Qarth.

So Euron was most likely trained by the Qartheen warlocks who want to take revenge on Dany for burning the House Of The Undying. I would not be too surprised if he does turn out to be Daario.