[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

Dante I have read your posts. I agree with the first one on the Sailor's Wife actually being Gerion Lannister's wife/lover. Tysha being the Sailor's Wife as you said makes no sense in two ways. One is the point that you mentioned and another is that it's completely random to call Tyrion a sailor. Gerion Lannister on the other hand we know sailed to Valyria to look for the ancient Valyrian steel Lannister sword Brightroar and then became lost at sea presumed dead so it makes perfect sense for him to be called a sailor. The fact that the Sailor's Wife is called Lanna and has blonde hair is the biggest clue that the Sailor is a Lannister.

As for the second one, I have seen this disturbing theory before. Penny does mention that she was trained by her father and her age does not match either. She is said to have curly brown hair. Tyrion is blonde and Tysha had "dark hair" which means either black or dark brown. I think it's safe to say we will not see this theory come true.

The Tysha case makes sense to me as well , too much . Tysha was not a whore , that was a game-changing revelation. To have her afterwards become a whore after an excessive rape , that's Gregor Logic , like the author so wisely proves , even from within the text . It simply isn't the case. Of that i am most definitely sure. I am also near so sure that , Jaime , is the one who saved her and not the steward .

For the genuine love and care he always had for his little brother , he saved her in spite of Tywin's whatever final orders had been. Tywin specifically mentions the steward , because that's what he knows as truth , his last orders where probably to get rid of her for good , never to be seen in Lannisport again .

And really , Tywin Lannister's steward , however kind or good man , would never dissobey , from all people , Tywin Lannister . A steward would never risk his life against Tywin Lannister's orders and even more so for such an important matter to him . Well then , if we accept that someone showed pity on her , so to say that she ended up being a silent sister . Who else other than the man who bore the secret and all the guilt of this tragedy ; Jaime .

Jaime taking care that she becomes a silent sister , after feeling guilty for participating in this disaster , would make perfect sense. We know he feels guilt even to this day , hence why he reveals it to Tyrion , in case he never sees him again . Guilt is guilt and he played his part , but he also had the means , the motive and the opportunity , to save Tysha from worse(probably from the worst , knowing who Tywin is). And i would like to believe he did in the end. He simply didn't manage to tell Tyrion , after Tyrion lost his head and went mad about Cercei and Joffrey and all.. then he actually leaves in great rush , leaving Jaime stunned , i am inclined to believe now that like Tyrion wanted to hurt him with his words , Jaime did the same after Tyrion's revelations.. or he simply was stopped from Tyrion's stance and then imminent dissapearance.

A few last words , we also know after 5 books that Jaime has a heroic side in him and all that happened after he was officialy , the Kingslayer. Meaning , after he had saved thousands uppon thousands of people , after doing something terrible. To a person that expected Jaime to be the last of all people that would hurt him ... if he did what he did for the realm , who despises him , i wouldn't put it past him to do something similar for his brother who he always loved , never mention being guilty for his part.  

As for the Sailor's Wife , yes , the Sailor is surely Gerion . I'd definitely like to learn more about this story and Gerion in the future . I've been reading he's the Corsair King.. i will say , why not both at the same time ? It can certainly work , not to mention save us from yet another stupid new character... In any case , Gerion dead or alive , Gerion being the Corsair King or not , Gerion Lannister is behind the words , The Sailor's Wife and Lanna is his daughter , without a single shred of doubt .

As for the Tyrion theory. Well , the author does try to counter the age parts and all , saying Tyrion is a bad judge , when it comes telling one's age . And it could be true . He's probably not judging Aegon's(or Faegon's) age properly , nor Sansa's , nor Penny's when he compares the two. Note that Penny being a dwarf and a young one on top of that , makes it extremely difficult to tell her age. And maybe , one could make a case and argue about his inability to tell when it comes to that.

Idk what to tell you , honestly i think it would make great drama , but on the other hand , i don't want to see Tyrion suffer like that , it would do him unimaginable things . He would be the monster everyone said and he would instantly lose the family he always had , but never knew. It would destroy him , without comebacks , it would prolong the suffering to his very last day. I will be glad if i don't read it in the last books. Probably.. None can deny the drama of it and it would be huge. Not to mention , you'd expect something so ultimately BS from George foqin Martin .

Don't really buy into the Penny theory you posted Dante. There doesn't really seem to be any proof for it other than that it would provide a lot of shock factor. The Sailor's wife is more likely I think.

Well , i don't buy it either if i am to be completely honest.. It's my opinion about it that i can't decide , whether i would want to see it happening or not . A part of me would definitely not and the other would like to see this happening for the drama of it . It kinda resembles an Oedipodian like tragedy.

The shock factor exists throughout the series , like you well pointed out , even though when we look deep into his work , Martin doesn't aim for shock purposes. But it does augment the overall experience and it's a solid essence of asoiaf .

But in the end , trully it's mostly based on an author-entitled deductional way and circumstancial at best proof , so yeah , it may as well be very wrong. You cannot deny though , that it is interesting , in it's very own highly disturbing way.

If only for the Tyrion fandom tears and rage posts , i may have liked to see that happening .

It says so much about ASOIAF Dante that I picked up on the Penny implication in the first link but thought "that can't be what the second one is about, it's not disturbing enough."

I personally doubt it, though there are some interesting details. It could be an interesting way to actually resolve the story of Tysha if we were to have met her daughter though as it's otherwise unlikely that we'll ever see Tyrion find Tysha.

Also I'm unfamiliar with the details of Gerion Lannister and why people are convinced the Sailor's Wife is connected to him.

I don't know about you mate , but it was highly disturbing for me . It came out of nowhere and i was like , noooo!

Not to mention , if Penny is Tyrion's daughter , then her brother died , indirectly , because of Tyrion , his father. Tyrion would be destroyed by the revelation. As for Tyrion meeting Tysha.. it may as well be like that , though i like to believe he will one day . I'd preffer that to Penny being Tyrion's daughter , but whatever.

As for Gerion Lannister. Tywin's youngest brother , he sailed to find the lost Lannister Valyrian sword , Brightroar , which is supposedly lost in Valyria , after another Lannister tried to sail there taking the sword with him . Tyrion knew Gerion while younger and he was both Jaime's and Tyrion's favourite uncle .

He was gone for like , 8 years at some point and Tywin lost his trail in Volantis , where his crew had deserted him and he had to buy slaves to man his crew. We don't know what happened to him after that.

The Sailor's Wife.

Gerion Lannister was a sailor as we know and he was known for his risky way of life and how he never gave a damn for the "game" Tywin and the rest lords were playing . Did his own thing. The Sailor's wife is a whore who Gerion married and left with child , then left to continue his quest for Valyria but never returned .

The whore's child , is named "Lanna" , obviously from Lannister , and has blond hair , like Gerion . It's safe to assume the The Sailor was Gerion Lannister and goes without saying that the biggest hint of all is that Gerion was a sailor , hence the name of the brothel .

Can't wait for the inevitable Olly shooting Tywin gif after the season finale

Correction . The name of the brothel is the Happy Port , not sure how i managed that in my head but somehow i confused the prostitute with the brothel. lol

The Sailor's Wife is the prostitute who marries men first and only then does her job. Lanna , is her blonde daughter. Gerion we know became a sailor for his quest and thus , there's this small theory that it is him behind the words , the sailors wife.

He is or he isn't , it's not something huge that it will impact the story in Westeros , just some nice bit of story telling. It's just there as a side mystery and background on Braavos . Maybe a red herring to Tysha. Or both , why not...I'd say , that Gerion Lannister is either already dead , or he's the Corsair King . The one who seeked to buy 100 unsullied , before Daenerys arrives in Astapor.

So , to conclude my thoughts on this.. not sure if he's the corsair "king" , but someone from westeros could have come up with that. Why he wanted unsullied , probably because he still hasn't gotten to Valyria and let's face it , if not for Unsullied , who would do anything , who else would have went with him there. Only Unsullied would follow him to Valyria , so maybe there could be something there.

Gerion is probably dead though . Volantis is a long way off Braavos , unless what Tywin learned was lies. Assuming it's true since it's the only info we've got , well , for Gerion to become the Corsair King , not sure how his story unfolded , but i think it unlikely he ever made it to Valyria with slaves , only to get back to being a corsair after that.

I'd like to think they died-deserted him as well and on the road he became a pirate to survive after all his money and wealth dissapeared in his long and unsuccesfull quest. Perhaps by becoming a fearsome "Corsair King" would bring him the money he needed to do just that , to buy Unsullied , who are famous for doing their master's will . He arrived at Astapor to buy them , but Daenerys stopped him indirectly.

This , or he simply died on his journey and his never coming back in any sort of way , which is much more likely to be the case.

M99 wrote:Can't wait for the inevitable Olly shooting Tywin gif after the season finale

LOL , true that

but the greatsword, Brightroar, had been lost when the second King Tommen carried it back to Valyria on his fool's quest. He had never returned, nor had Uncle Gery

Tommen is the second Lannister to sit the IT (just an expression he never really sat on it), so the second King Tommen has appeared, that means Gerion and Brightroar will too.

Only three days past I showed these same Unsullied to a corsair king who hopes to buy them all

A new corsair king had risen in the Basilisk Isles and raided Tall Trees Town

Gerion is the corsair king as the King of Starks mentioned. Tyrion will bump into him when he crosses the Narrow Sea back to Westeros. Gerion will join his nephew, and be named as Dany's Master of Ships.

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A post i found in the asoiaf forums. This would give a purpose to Gerion coming back into the story and likely tell the full story behind the sailor's wife , assuming he's the same person.. Idk , seems far fetched combining it all like that. Whatever the case , i'd like to learn more about Gerion in TWOW , dead or alive.

The biggest hint yet , even if we disregard every theory and assumption made , is the simple fact he's been mentioned in every single book so far.

It can't be just for the sake of it , this would be bad writing . I'd like to think Chekhov's gun is in action here too .

Not to mention , he would certainly have some great discussions with Tyrion .

That is actually not the Sailor's Wife Theory I was refering to

The other theory is that she is actually Tysha, the girl Tyrion marries before Tywin has her raped by everyone and Tyrion. Supporting evidence:

she has a kid of about the same age as when Tyrion would have married her
the kid is blond like him
is named Lanna which is the female name for Lann (the root for Lannister)
she marries people before she sleeps with them just like she did with Tyrion

And the biggest clue as to that woman not being Tysha , is the fact that Tyrion and Sailor have absolutely nothing in common .. nothing at all.

Gerion Lannister was a sailor , though . I'd like you to read one or two of my posts about Tysha in particular , or because these are tl;dr type of posts , just look up to the link i provide a few pages ago , the author reasoning why Tysha would never become a whore after that. It's false logic , it's wrong in any sense . Like she very wisely mentions , that's gregor logic.

Despite all that , The Sailor's Wife have absolutely nothing to do with Tyrion . No sense coming from such a connection . Gerion Lannister could be all what you mentioned and is obviously a sailor as well , or most likely , has been one , seeing as he was on a journey to Valyria.. he is or has been , that is a proper sailor .

Though i've come to suspect that's probably bollocks really. He's been described as too much an intelligent and cool person to care about such things , to risk his life for a sword , especially one lost for hundreds of years. Must have been he wanted to sail the world and live other things in his life than the game Tywin and other high lords were playing. He's been said to mock 'the game' , fits right in with his character to do something like that. He was also famous for his travels before his , seemingly , last one for Valyria.

He also sounds exactly the type to marry some whore or something like that in one of his travels But again , the biggest hint is that he was a sailor as far as we know and that the Sailor's Wife can be connected with a Lannister . But a sailor Lannister , certainly not Tyrion . Add to that what has been said about Tysha and i am sure you will see it yourself , it cannot be Tysha.

She could just be called the sailor's wife because she's a whore and sailors are a whore's biggest customer. Don't see it as an impediment.

Anyways just watched the finale:

No LSH? WTF? I have been trolled hard by Lena Hadley.

No big Tysha was not a whore reveal. This will make Tyrion's moping around next season seem kinda ridiculous. Varys going with him makes for an interesting change.

Stannis' reveal was not as epic as I pictured it. It just seemed that Jon got captured and without an ounce of suspense Stannis showed up.

Brienne vs Hound fight was GOAT and gritty as f***.

Can't believe they didn't reveal Stoneheart, such a missed opportunity. Also they wrote in the Jamie-Tyrion farewell that people wanted to see. It was nice to see them part on good terms, but it also felt like a fanfic writer had gone and rewritten the scene so that the books wouldn't meddle with their perfect view of the characters.

I dislike the changes made in the conversations and events for this episode overall, I felt they didn't heighten the drama, so feeling a tad let down, but still a fantastic episode though.

Jojen though. Also the Children practically have modern weaponry.

I think they were saving stoneheart.Brienne still has to get captured.

Guess Tyrion will at some point meet her himself and will find out the truth about her not being a whore then.

No Tysha. No Stoneheart. Jojen dead.

What
the
*bleep*

Jojen Paste arguments are going to explode.

So brutal though, I feel so sorry for Meera, having to slit his throat. It does raise an interesting question though. The show runners saw fit to knock off Jojen but Meera lives. Is it because she's Bran's girlfriend or will she have a greater part to play still?

Also I thought the conversation between Tormund and Jon was very well done, starting to rebuild Tormund's image for show watchers and allowing for a friendship with Jon. Also points to the rider who cut down the wildling who charged Stannis, so hilariously casual.

I was a Jojen paste hater before and now I am a convert. Jojen paste

Also Stannis should've saved the day at the end o f the last episode.

A bit disappointed with this episode.

I've always had the idea Varys manipulated Tyrion into killing Tywin. Shame they didn't put what really happened in the show.

Tyrion didn't kill Shae in self-defense.

No Tysha. The Jaime Tyrion goodbye looked like fanction.

Jojen dead?

Where's Coldhands? I was expecting him to pop out any second but he never appeared.

Lady Stoneheart?


The fight between Brienne and The Hound was awesome though.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-why-no-lady-stoneheart/

Didn't like the episode sorry. Not because of no LSH but it was poorly written and translated from the books.

Tyrion's whole arc in the books revolved around "Where do whores go?" While jaime's constant thought regarding cersei was "F*cking moonboy for what i know" The farewell was pure fan fiction.

Jon's arc was very well represented.

Didn't like the Skeleton fight. That was some awful animations. Jojen is dead? I was really really really waiting for a dialogue of "Tonight is the day I die" in the books before he dies

We will never get it.

Why in the world is Lord Bloodraven so healthy and has 2 eyes?

Melisandre looking at Jon was one of the best shots of the episode.

"looking through the flames and all I see is Snow"


That's a book spoiler for TWOW imo as well. Think she will burn Jon's body to resurrect him in a similar way

RealGunner wrote:Why in the world is Lord Bloodraven so healthy and has 2 eyes?

That didn't make any sense. He even repeats the book sentence 'I've been watching you, all of you, all of your lives, with 1000 eyes and one'... while having both eyes  

He looked so Ordinary lol. Also that throne was terrible. Such a cramped room

This is really interesting

http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/uegam/the_hound_is_sansas_wolf/