Re: Pep Guardiola vs Jose Mourinho - Bayern vs Chelsea

by lszanto Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:35 am

The_Badger wrote:BB is biased. He's obviously going to promote Chelsea when he's got that blue shit in his eyes.

Bayern Munich deserved their victory tonight, they played to win every single minute, unlike Chelsea.

Haha. Bad troll is bad.

by Hawky Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:41 am

You're funny BB. Read my comments carefully - I said apart from the goals.

Look, it's simple - I like it when the better team wins. I never could stand teams that park the bus, have one chance in 90 minutes, score a goal and win it by pure luck while the opposition has shots after shots saved by the goalkeeper (btw, this is generally speaking, I am not refering to this game or Chelsea).

But it's football and that's why it's so beautiful - because it's unpredictable and things like this happen.

We have different views on the subject and it's alright, no need to get personal about it btw. If Chelsea had won the CL playing attacking football you would have been a disgusting elitist "attacking" fan yourself Razz

.

by Ion Creanga Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:42 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Ion Creanga wrote:
Spoiler:
In one game perhaps, in nearly every big game Mou has played? Doubtful. Mou's "superior tactics" are incredibly physical and aggressive and this makes the chances of finishing a game with 11 players incredibly hard.

I think tonight's red card was a coincidence, i don't think that was Mourinho's fault or bad tactic for that Ramires challenge, he was fighting for the ball... See how Celtic plays, that's aggresive football and incredibly physical..

During his time at Madrid , especially last year, players looked so much frustrated, probably he had his part in the reds during that time...

by The_Badger Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:44 am

Just because people don't agree with you, doesn't make them trolls.

Don't act like the Liverpool fans do on here and start screeching "TROLL" every time someone posts something you don't like.

Bayern Munich were the better team tonight, it may have been close, but showed more over the game to justify the victory.

by kiranr Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:59 am

Better team clearly won.

And Mou being a superior tactician notion had been destroyed last year. There are several coaches with a better understanding of the game than Mou. Some people are just not creative enough to get that part of the game. But he makes up for it with his unlimited budget and playing deceitful and manipulative mind games with his players.

by Blue Barrett Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:08 am

Hawky wrote:You're funny BB. Read my comments carefully - I said apart from the goals.

Look, it's simple - I like it when the better team wins. I never could stand teams that park the bus, have one chance in 90 minutes, score a goal and win it by pure luck while the opposition has shots after shots saved by the goalkeeper (btw, this is generally speaking, I am not refering to this game or Chelsea).

But it's football and that's why it's so beautiful - because it's unpredictable and things like this happen.

We have different views on the subject and it's alright, no need to get personal about it btw. If Chelsea had won the CL playing attacking football you would have been a disgusting elitist "attacking" fan yourself .

No, I wouldn't. We've also won other trophies playing a very similar brand. Its funny because the same set of people that bashed Chelsea for the CL run were nowhere to be found when we ran Napoli off the pitch 4-1 at the Bridge. They wanted us to go all out and attack Barca even with a clearly inferior team when the result would have been obvious(the result every non-Chelsea fan wanted).

Stop tagging something "negative" or "wrong" because it doesn't fit with what you like. That's all I'm saying.

by Blue Barrett Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:10 am

kiranr wrote:
Better team clearly won.

And Mou being a superior tactician notion had been destroyed last year. There are several coaches with a better understanding of the game than Mou. Some people are just not creative enough to get that part of the game. But he makes up for it with his unlimited budget and playing deceitful and manipulative mind games with his players.

Same unlimited budget Porto and even Inter had?

by BarcaLearning Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:45 am

WAAHAHAHAHAHAHA WAAAAAAHHAHAHAAH WAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH`!!!

WPPOO HOOOOOO~!!! Very Happy

Om the end Pep won it and MOurinho lost! But to be honest... Mou > Pep.

I think this game showed that. I was frustrated at how stubborn Bayern was, they just didnt shoot enough and made it easy for Chelsea to defend. It felt like Barca almost Razz

I think alst season's Bayern would have finished the game not to mention not concede 2, especially that second goal, Bayern was asleep defenisvely Barca style.

Gozte looks lost at Bayern, it just seems they didnt know how to btreak down Chelsea who admirably defendly so well again. With 10 men, Mou's teams seem to play even better Razz

But then Chelsea did that with Di Matteo to beat Barca so I guess Chelsea had the experience to do it too.

Ribery was a beast! Robben had a poor game which was strange. Lahm is a living god! Lahm at DM/DLP Very Happy

Chelsea deserve credit though, they played so well and more than physically matched Bayern, incredible.

This was definitely a show casing of Mou > Pep though, and now I can conclude Pep's style is flawed. But I guess no system is perfect. Mou's system is just more effective and practical.

I want to say again though, not that I hate Chelsea but AHAHAHAHHAHAAHHA AMou suck shit!, U lost to Pep! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Razz

by SaintJoe Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:57 am

I don't really agree with the notion going on here that whoever attacks more and has more possession deserves the win. Different teams will use different tactics to try and win. There's nothing wrong with being defensive. Granted, the spectacle might suffer, but I don't think it did here. It was a great game imo.

What I have to strongly criticize is Mourinho's choice to put Lukaku on 5th spot. Penalties aren't luck. It's about putting your most veteran and efficient players on the pitch. A 20 year old will most likely fail. Gutted by such a mistake.

by lszanto Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:59 am

SaintJoe wrote:I don't really agree with the notion going on here that whoever attacks more and has more possession deserves the win. Different teams will use different tactics to try and win. There's nothing wrong with being defensive. Granted, the spectacle might suffer, but I don't think it did here. It was a great game imo.

What I have to strongly criticize is Mourinho's choice to put Lukaku on 5th spot. Penalties aren't luck. It's about putting your most veteran and efficient players on the pitch. A 20 year old will most likely fail. Gutted by such a mistake.

Yeah the Lukaku bit was probably the most upsetting thing about the whole thing, he looked so upset afterwards Sad

by SaintJoe Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:03 am

lszanto wrote:Yeah the Lukaku bit was probably the most upsetting thing about the whole thing, he looked so upset afterwards

Yeah, he's probably devastated. Well, it was only a Super Cup anyway, he has the whole season to redeem himself Thumbs up

by lszanto Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:05 am

SaintJoe wrote:
lszanto wrote:Yeah the Lukaku bit was probably the most upsetting thing about the whole thing, he looked so upset afterwards
Yeah, he's probably devastated. Well, it was only a Super Cup anyway, he has the whole season to redeem himself

True, it also means he'll probably go hard on himself and work even harder in training. Hopefully pays off!

by BarcaLearning Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:15 am

Just rad up on the posts, so funny, ppl talk too fast. "This game is so boring, Im not walking the second half" to "Such an entertaining game" Very Happy

So many things to talk about too. Mou thinking he won the game and trying to get the crowd to lif this side XD

Neuer is so confident, like that style, if he cuts out his mistakes he will be the best.

Hazard is class already, Lakuka is so young and needs time to mature.

To be fair to Mou, if he had the depth like Bayern, and no complaint about the second yellow, he probably could have won. But thats another story. Its bit of luck but also he always needs to employ the physical game vs Pep and get the reds and yellows, thats a credit to Pep's style too, that he forces opponent to do this in order to compete. I think Chelsea didnt just park the side, but also played some football at times.

If Dani sees, so what do u think about Chelsea though in this game? They pretty much pressed and retreated to parking the bus for a large portion of the game successfully. Chelsea and Mou is just so good at this, perfect counter to Pep's style, without having always need to pack or press the midfield?

by Dnmac4 Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:38 am

There really is no reason to argue over positive football vs negative football and if defending is considered a negative tactic.

No one should be defending Mou here as another poster posted these stats and after watching the game and looking at the stats it's easy to come to the conclusion that Bayern were the better team.

Stats (uefa.com):

Bayern - Chelsea

Total shots: 37 - 14
Shots on target: 19 - 9
Possession: 64 % - 36 %
Corners: 15 - 5

Mou talks his usual BS after Pep beats him which is really becoming old and tired (both Mou talking crap and Pep beating him) especially when Pep is like the nicest and classiest manager in the world and Mou shows no respect what so ever towards him because he's a punk.

Of course Mou has to bring up the player sent off when it was totally justified and is becoming a major trend of his tactics to end an important game in a loss and get a player or himself thrown off the pitch.

Like one poster said it's one thing to play defensive hard nosed football and quite another thing to be a dirty player/coach and Mou really has no more benefit of the doubt anymore especially when he's losing.

IMO he is a dirty coach and over the last couple of years that really can't be disputed.

Also one last thing, I always thought it was very unfair the expectations put on Barcelona over the last 5-6 years. If they tie it's considered a loss and if they win close it automatically means they didn't play well.

I see the same thing happening with this Bayern team. Cut them some slack, Pep is not a miracle worker, he can't win every game 5-0. HE did continue his excellent record again "the best coach in the world" as some say and his excellent record in games with a trophy on the line.

They won and played well and that's what's important.

by SaintJoe Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:47 am

Dnmac4 wrote:No one should be defending Mou here as another poster posted these stats and after watching the game and looking at the stats it's easy to come to the conclusion that Bayern were the better team.

Stats (uefa.com):

Bayern - Chelsea

Total shots: 37 - 14
Shots on target: 19 - 9
Possession: 64 % - 36 %
Corners: 15 - 5

The only stat that shows Bayern were the better team is the 5-4 on penalties. More shots and more possession doesn't mean you were superior. If I recall correctly, Barcelona had more of both and still lost 0-3 to Bayern. Attacking more doesn't mean much if you can't score a goal.

by Dnmac4 Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:11 am

SaintJoe wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:No one should be defending Mou here as another poster posted these stats and after watching the game and looking at the stats it's easy to come to the conclusion that Bayern were the better team.

Stats (uefa.com):

Bayern - Chelsea

Total shots: 37 - 14
Shots on target: 19 - 9
Possession: 64 % - 36 %
Corners: 15 - 5
The only stat that shows Bayern were the better team is the 5-4 on penalties. More shots and more possession doesn't mean you were superior. If I recall correctly, Barcelona had more of both and still lost 0-3 to Bayern. Attacking more doesn't mean much if you can't score a goal.

LOL, if you watch enough football you will know that the best team doesn't always win in football. In this case they did.

I mean according to you we should just blindfold ourselves and keep no statistics and just wait until the end of the game and who ever wins automatically played better and if it's a tie both teams played equally. No one was ever hard done by the tie and no one ever got lucky to draw a game.

That is fantasy world. Bayern played better and it was very obvious. Also you can always learn things by looking at statistics. It's why coach's keep them and make decisions base off of them, it's why the TV stations show them to you, it's why fans talk about them and it's why you can get a college degree in that field because there important and represent what is happening in the game of football outside of the goals scored.

And in the beautiful game of football where there is very little actual scoring you use your eyes first and stats second to see who played better and in today's case Bayern were better in both categories.

Sure if the stats are fairly even or skewed just a little bit to one side then throw them out the window.

That was not the case with these stats,

Bayern - Chelsea

Total shots: 37 - 14 (bayern more then doubled there total)
Shots on target: 19 - 9 (bayern more then doubled there total)
Possession: 64 % - 36 % (Bayern almost doubled there total)
Corners: 15 - 5 (bayern more then doubled there total)

IF you don't happen to believe in statistics I could care less, but if you back a coach who LOST THE GAME, had a player sent off for good reason, made dubious substitutions, and got absolutely thrashed in every important statistic and then that coach claimed they were the better team then you about as insane as that coach.

Also note in both my posts I said to use stats AND watch the game.

by lszanto Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:24 am

Dnmac4 wrote:blah blah blah

The only important stat is goals.

You are a wally.

by SaintJoe Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:39 am

Dnmac4 wrote:LOL, if you watch enough football you will know that the best team doesn't always win in football. In this case they did.

I mean according to you we should just blindfold ourselves and keep no statistics and just wait until the end of the game and who ever wins automatically played better and if it's a tie both teams played equally. No one was ever hard done by the tie and no one ever got lucky to draw a game.

No, not according to me. At all. I am talking about this case in particular. Not sure why you'd think I'm talking about every single match in football history.

Dnmac4 wrote:That is fantasy world. Bayern played better and it was very obvious. Also you can always learn things by looking at statistics. It's why coach's keep them and make decisions base off of them, it's why the TV stations show them to you, it's why fans talk about them and it's why you can get a college degree in that field because there important and represent what is happening in the game of football outside of the goals scored.

And in the beautiful game of football where there is very little actual scoring you use your eyes first and stats second to see who played better and in today's case Bayern were better in both categories.

We'll just agree to disagree! Imo this was a really close game, both teams could have scored on multiple occasions, but both Neuer (bar the second goal) and Cech were amazing.

Dnmac4 wrote:Bayern - Chelsea

Total shots: 37 - 14 (bayern more then doubled there total)
Shots on target: 19 - 9 (bayern more then doubled there total)
Possession: 64 % - 36 % (Bayern almost doubled there total)
Corners: 15 - 5 (bayern more then doubled there total)

I get it. Chelsea were very defensive. I agree.

Dnmac4 wrote:IF you don't happen to believe in statistics I could care less, but if you back a coach who LOST THE GAME, had a player sent off for good reason, made dubious substitutions, and got absolutely thrashed in every important statistic and then that coach claimed they were the better team then you about as insane as that coach..

Statistics don't always tell the whole story, that's all I'm saying. And he didn't get trashed in every important statistic... the most important one was actually really close! Though I'd like you to point out where I defended Mourinho. In fact, I actually critiziced him. Sending a 20 year old to penalties is a mistake one should not make. No need to call me insane Crying or Very sad

by Uncanny Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:09 am

lszanto wrote:
SaintJoe wrote:I don't really agree with the notion going on here that whoever attacks more and has more possession deserves the win. Different teams will use different tactics to try and win. There's nothing wrong with being defensive. Granted, the spectacle might suffer, but I don't think it did here. It was a great game imo.

What I have to strongly criticize is Mourinho's choice to put Lukaku on 5th spot. Penalties aren't luck. It's about putting your most veteran and efficient players on the pitch. A 20 year old will most likely fail. Gutted by such a mistake.
Yeah the Lukaku bit was probably the most upsetting thing about the whole thing, he looked so upset afterwards

Yea that was my most upsetting moment, but lets face it, looking at drogbas confident penalty last year, and everyone looking at lukaku to fill those shoes, good that he went through his early and hope he will use this as motivation, that kid has the possibility to become great.

by Uncanny Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:18 am

I think there's a lot of babbling here, and I want to point a few things out. Bayern were the dominant side from start to finish, agree. I also agree that they are the worlds best right now. Chelsea were clearly underdogs and we knew that, we can't possibly go all attack on bayern it would've been probably worse can how they did barca. Our qualities lie in our defense, and we did a damn good job at it, especially with 10 men against bayern (plus neur kept popping up high up field to help his team out, props to him). But at the end we almost won until the last 6 seconds of a 120 min match, that's nothing to take lightly. Bayern won on penalties but the whole match was a draw for me, Cech was incredible, and bayern will be the team to beat this CL.

by boyzis Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:39 am

Uncanny wrote:I think there's a lot of babbling here, and I want to point a few things out. Bayern were the dominant side from start to finish, agree. I also agree that they are the worlds best right now. Chelsea were clearly underdogs and we knew that, we can't possibly go all attack on bayern it would've been probably worse can how they did barca. Our qualities lie in our defense, and we did a damn good job at it, especially with 10 men against bayern (plus neur kept popping up high up field to help his team out, props to him). But at the end we almost won until the last 6 seconds of a 120 min match, that's nothing to take lightly. Bayern won on penalties but the whole match was a draw for me, Cech was incredible, and bayern will be the team to beat this CL.

You do understand mou was beaten tactically by pep ?

by Uncanny Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:26 am

boyzis wrote:
Uncanny wrote:I think there's a lot of babbling here, and I want to point a few things out. Bayern were the dominant side from start to finish, agree. I also agree that they are the worlds best right now. Chelsea were clearly underdogs and we knew that, we can't possibly go all attack on bayern it would've been probably worse can how they did barca. Our qualities lie in our defense, and we did a damn good job at it, especially with 10 men against bayern (plus neur kept popping up high up field to help his team out, props to him). But at the end we almost won until the last 6 seconds of a 120 min match, that's nothing to take lightly. Bayern won on penalties but the whole match was a draw for me, Cech was incredible, and bayern will be the team to beat this CL.
You do understand mou was beaten tactically by pep ?

mou's team was beaten by pep's team, but tactically is laughable, 10 men who are underdogs made peps worlds best sweat their asses off for a 120 mins, went ahead twice, during the whole game plus ended in a 2-2 at the end of it. Chelsea's only downside was lukaku's penalty, which ultimately cost us, it was a very very close game and kudos to bayern to score in the last 6 seconds, tactially chelsea were superior, pep won by having the stronger team and having 11 players, but completely failed to lead the game at all during the entire match. We beat them in the champions league final and almost beat them again this time, I aint sad tp losing to bayern on penalties, they lost on penalties to us last time. Also considering they destroyed barcelona a few months ago Proud

by iNFINITY9910 Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:45 am

Leave it mate... its been almost 3-4 years and its the same logic against Chelsea in this forum, and before. Its pretty useless arguing about it.

by Blue Barrett Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:51 am

lszanto wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:blah blah blah
The only important stat is goals.

You are a wally.

by Blue Barrett Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:53 am

Its also interesting that everyone is apparently turning a blind eye to the diving Bayern did in this game. Oh I forgot, that's not important. Let's all bash Mou.

by Uncanny Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:17 am

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