Pep Guardiola vs Jose Mourinho - Bayern vs Chelsea

Lol good thing we didn't get destroyed like last year when athletico have us a whooping, I don't think we even took that game seriously, but this was a pretty good battle against bayern.

I know many people expected us to get run over by Bayern.

sportsczy wrote:You really think parking the bus and running a counter attack is that complicated???  Di Matteo did the exact same thing and won with Chelsea against Bayern... anyone calling him a tactical genius?

And I will also add, if anything Mou was worse than Di Matteo at doing even this.

At least with Di Matteo, he left Torres high up the pitch to pounce on counter attack chances, ala vs Barca.

Yesturday Neuer was at the half way line free to do whatever he wanted and balls just keep coming in, time and time again.

The Franchise wrote:

sportsczy wrote:You really think parking the bus and running a counter attack is that complicated???  Di Matteo did the exact same thing and won with Chelsea against Bayern... anyone calling him a tactical genius?

And I will also add, if anything Mou was worse than Di Matteo at doing even this.

At least with Di Matteo, he left Torres high up the pitch to pounce on counter attack chances, ala vs Barca.

Yesturday Neuer was at the half way line free to do whatever he wanted and balls just keep coming in, time and time again.

tbf that only happened after the red card

Well yeah...but Di Matteo's Chelsea had 10 men also.

To be fair, Mourinho might the best in the world at 10 man football. I cant think of anyone better at it, he has plenty of experience too.

I thought two teams were even..and pep really didnt influence the game at all until the red card.

sportsczy wrote:There's nothing sophisticated about Mou's tactics:  Sit back and defend... when you get the ball, counter as quickly as possible.  I don't understand how people can think he's some tactical genius.  He's not.

He just uses the same anti-football tactic he's always used.

Time for me to go manage a EPL/Serie A/La Liga club then.. I'll win trophies, its so easy... please. Why don't you get out and see some sunlight first.

Probably agree, probably because his gameplan usually consists of the same thing regardless of the numbers...but one has to start wondering surely, how come his teams are always down to 10 men?

I think the answer is, they dont care about the ball and naturally, the less of the ball you have, the more defending you have to do, the more defending you do the more tackles you make..more tackles you make more fouls you get...you see where im going.

iNFINITY9910 wrote:

sportsczy wrote:There's nothing sophisticated about Mou's tactics:  Sit back and defend... when you get the ball, counter as quickly as possible.  I don't understand how people can think he's some tactical genius.  He's not.

He just uses the same anti-football tactic he's always used.

Time for me to go manage a EPL/Serie A/La Liga club then.. I'll win trophies, its so easy... please. Why don't you get out and see some sunlight first.

coaching more than tactics u know? being a great man manager and a leader of men matters more, and that's what mourinho is special at. His football mind is nothing to write a book about.

so no, stay home, you will probably fail

I'm not a fan of Mourinho's style of football, however there's still tactics involved in terms of the defensive style of play. For a team that plays possession anyone could say 'all they do is pass the ball, what tactics are involved?'.

In terms of it being negative, well being 'defensive' and not being 'expressive' sounds negative not just in football. Which is why his style may seem like anti-football or negative.

Please stop. You said this before, you were wrong there and your wrong now.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

iNFINITY9910 wrote:

sportsczy wrote:There's nothing sophisticated about Mou's tactics:  Sit back and defend... when you get the ball, counter as quickly as possible.  I don't understand how people can think he's some tactical genius.  He's not.

He just uses the same anti-football tactic he's always used.

Time for me to go manage a EPL/Serie A/La Liga club then.. I'll win trophies, its so easy... please. Why don't you get out and see some sunlight first.

coaching more than tactics u know? being a great man manager and a leader of men matters more, and that's what mourinho is special at. His football mind is nothing to write a book about.

so no, stay home, you will probably fail

Exactly my point.. if its only on the pitch that takes a football manager to win.. might as well write a programme for it and let a robot do it.

All Sports said is, why do people think he is a tactical genuis....which is a very fair question.

Sports didnt say he is a bad coach nor anyone can do it.

The Franchise wrote:All Sports said is, why do people think he is a tactical genuis....which is a very fair question.

Sports didnt say he is a bad coach nor anyone can do it.

Because what he knows, he does well. Its not easy to go into a match when you are being analysed for more than 10 years of videos and still manage to get a draw against pretty much the best team in Europe(IMO) not more than 2-3 months ago. He wins matches and in his(sport... ) logic, then Stoke should be able to win the league.

I'm gonna stop making my point, cos last time you called me retarded or something. :)Cheers.

Yeah, I dont think I did.

Anyway, Sports made the comment, he dont need me to defend it. I am just saying what he said makes perfect sense to me.

Going around calling him a tactical genuis makes no sense, when medicore coaches have done the exact same thing vs teams of a similar quality.

When i think of great tacticians, i think of Sciacchi, Capello, Spalletti, Guus Hiddink, Van Gaal... and, yes, Guardiola because he's an innovator.

But never, ever do i think of Mou.

Mou is the ultimate pragmatist... but nothing creative or unique about him.

Good coach and his tactics work for him. But nobody is going to go to bed having a wet dream about his tactics and the way his teams play imo.

The Franchise wrote:Yeah, I dont think I did.

Anyway, Sports made the comment, he dont need me to defend it. I am just saying what he said makes perfect sense to me.

Going around calling him a tactical genuis makes no sense, when medicore coaches have done the exact same thing vs teams of a similar quality.

He was the first man to do it since António Sousa and only the second ever. Nine years, one month and 10 days later, José Mourinho's mind-blowing record came to an end. Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid had not lost in 150 games under him. He'd not been defeated in a home league game since 23 February 2002, when nine-man Porto lost 3-2 to Beira-Mar. 150 matches, 125 wins and 25 draws, 342 goals scored, 87 conceded.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/apr/04/jose-mourinho-madrid-la-liga

you dont get the point we are trying to make...at all. no one said mourinho is a bad coach/manager, he is extremely successful. But he is not a genius tactician, pulling out quotes of his achievements wont change that.

As I said...tactics.

Mr Nick09 wrote:you dont get the point we are trying to make...at all. no one said mourinho is a bad coach/manager, he is extremely successful. But he is not a genius tactician, pulling out quotes of his achievements wont change that.

If he is not a proper tactician why can't people counter him consistently? That's my question.

Anyways, we have different opinions and I'm probably too thick headed to get your points. So I'm going to leave it at this. Good day/night mates. Cheers.

The Franchise wrote:All Sports said is, why do people think he is a tactical genuis....which is a very fair question.

Sports didnt say he is a bad coach nor anyone can do it.

He may not be the greatest tactical mind of all time but he's no slouch either. You lot make it seem like he's clueless when it comes to tactics. You think he'd have achieved this much in his career by being a poor or average tactician?

You may not bring something "innovative" to the pitch but as far as your tactics work and you've won time and time again with those tactics, you're no push over in that department.

So much exaggeration on this forum.

BTW, in that quote about the home run, it said "9-man Porto" - again his team got players sent off, even two in the above mentioned match. Somehow this really sounds like a recurring disease with his teams ^^

He prefers physical encounters, players might over step their boundaries and get carded. When they play too physical referees prefer to caution them more as well.

I like this thread, a lot of interesting points being raised.

I had a question: did Mourinho ever win a penalty shootout? It's not important in terms of managerial abilities, but from my memory he lost a semifinal vs. Liverpool with Chelsea at PSO, another one vs. Bayern with Real Madrid also at PSO. And can't think of any ties/finals he won in this manner.

Also for Guardiola this was the first penalty-shootout in which he has been involved as a coach, if I am not mistaken.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6612491.stm

Chelsea match, not sure bout the Madrid match.