What should be our plan forward now?

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I don't think we should fire Tito, but if he offers to step down citing health reasons I wouldn't really say no either. The fact is that he's recovering from cancer and he's not out of the woods yet, you're not considered to be "cured" from cancer until 5 years have bone by without a recurrence. So if his doctors think there's as much as 30% chance he'll have a recurrence I think he should step down, the stakes are too high and we simply can't afford another half season with Roura. I think his first half season was great, we essentially won the league in February and up to that point we were European favorites. I'm not trying to scapegoat Roura, but the fact is that we don't know how much involvement Tito had then or even now. How can he be a great motivator now if he can't even talk at press conferences for a month?

Well, thats just some defense towards Roura, otherwise it is a pretty crap thing to say that Tito is doing player selection and making other decision from USA, Roura just replacing as a person. I mean that is impossible right? Its football not share market you can control from anywhere in the world....lolz

CBarca wrote:That's not fair to Tito at all. We played well until he cancer came around again. Very well, in fact. He has some issues, yes, but they can be worked out and he won the league title by December.

And despite our problems we still got into the semifinals of the CL.

Tito needs another season. At this point it's judging him on half a season. If you buy a player, and he lasts half the season and then gets injured, would you drop him, or sell him? I don't think so. Tito deserves the same chance and has done well.

Pinpointing all these problems on someone who wasn't here is not the right thing to do. I don't understand how Tito can be the culprit.

Yes, but also you need to remember we did not face the big games till then. As you can remember there was a discussion thread about whether we should call tito a success yet and many agreed we need to wait.
Yes we were winning games in league but again we were not convincingly winning vs Valencia and R. Madrid. we did not have a tough group in CL like R. Madrid had. And you no how we came to semifinal of CL.....None of PSG and AC Milan are the big favorite for winning CL and yet we made them look like great team. And even when R.Madrid was suffering huge internal clash we lost to them in 2 consecutive games, something did not happen in last 4/5 years.

Wow, A Suarez - Messi - Neymar frontline would be the most lethal thing in world football.

Personally, I would focus on a Winger (Nerman) GK (Ter Stegan perhaps? Maybe Lloris?) and a CB (not sure here, not Hummels, Nor DL4 (he's ours (Bracket inside a bracket inside a bracket, can he do that?)) Perhaps Kompany or Howedes?) Once they are sorted, then focus on LB as that is not as vital.

I am actually scared that a Barca side who has basically won the title by Christmas needs 3-4 players, I'd rather that side not get back to 08/09-10/11 form.

The main problem is our defense. Pique and puyol are not even half of what they used to be and with all due respect need to be replaced. ATM i am not worried about neymar joining barca, We need quality centre backs!!

Valdez needs to be replaced too..

Other than that our midfield is the best on paper and we have the best striker in the world so there is no problem there. Sanchez has been a flop..doesn't do much either..sell him.. David villa was a great player but the injury ruined him and hes getting old too so..sell him..Tello is young and has good quality of a winger,he has tremendous speed and handles 1 on 1 situations quite well(at least better than sanchez nowadays)

With neymar expected to join barca in summer he will probably do a great job as a winger..Our midfield is good but it feels like xavi just wants to get his 100% pass accuracy in every match ie he just focusses on every small pass to complete.I dont know if its just me but he hardly provides a great assist or create an amazing chance as much as he used to do. Iniesta makes the game flow and keeps creating chances but it feels like xavi just passes the ball to near players.

Apart from that the tiki taka passing has not been as great as it used to be.
Players are missing easiest of passes and our slow build up ends immediately.The chemistry of passing is really not good atm. It needs improvement.

This year has not been that bad for us. We won the la liga, Got in the semis
of CL, Got in the semis of copa del rey with a sick coach,crappy defense and and an injured messi.

Viva la barca!!

With all the talk about Sanchez a flop or not.... well he was captain I think in the game vs Bilbao after Xavi went off and then passed it on to Iniesta when got subbed, so it makes me feel hes definitely an important member considered. I think like Cesc, too harshly judged again.... unless a replacement comes and is proven settled its too early to just sell these types of players, not enough credit given.

I have been absent, to briefly explain I get to see my closest family once every 3-4 months so you can understand that nearly all my time is spent with them and spare time I get I will be watching the games rather than talking about them. So, even the time I get now to login I spend answering pm's and posting where I feel is best served. So I apologise for not reading 90% of what you guys are saying.

My opinion is please let us not overreacted. We we outclassed by a superior team no question, but the gap in scoreline was not the gap in performance, but even more so quality.

The first half was nothing, a nothing game, both sides did squat going forward.

However, we are awful at corners, that's not new.....then an obviously foul and we obviously let the game get away at that point. Offensively bayern did nothing special, I don't know what others are saying but my veiw is that. Where they were great was defending as a unit. I don't know he correct term but I call it "drawing a line", they did it very well. They like everyone else knows they can't have more of the ball, but they knew that if our midfield isn't ever goal side of theirs, minimal danger, especially with a questionable Messi. Midfield line of 4 plus a dropping muller, we were unable to play through the small spaces in the middle of the pitch. The old us would of distorted that line, be it tactics or various things you can argue different ways we did not and could not. Not distorting that line was the fatal point, we played not only in front of them but deep in very unthreatening areas. They then applied the long known plan of having one defender come out to follow Messi, narrow the remaining 3 with the knowledge our other 2 forwards can't damage in the 1 v 1 and the narrow 3 not allowing balls in between them. Is not rocket science really, if you have the players which they certainly do.

What we need to do? Well it's a shame we wasted transfer windows but as ever, there is always another year.

For me, the hardest things are the ones the mid game adjustments and overall ability to defend set pieces. Tito made hardly Noticable adjustments, he came across as confused as the players. The go to change seems to be Messi wide....but it's very limited, he won't stay there and will never be in the 1v 1. It doesn't solve main problem. What we needed was to distort the midfield line....I can't help but feel Guardiola would hae found a better way. I feel the issue was out midfield 3 never got goal side of theirs, we didn't pull them apart. I feel busquets should of gone into the back to form a 3, dani and alba get at least 20 yards higher (its also alarming how early they get passes now..it's often inside their only half, something which for my understanding shouldn't be happening, I elaborate) and there by pushing ribery and robben further from the middle and giving all 4/5 more space to cover and bringing Messi deeper just to get the ball from 70m from goal to 35 even if it means bringin alexis infield to keep the CB at bay. Messi and his fitness was an issue no doubt, but I saw nothing...I saw us trying the same pattern with no real adjustment.

Set pieces....what can Dani Alves do with Dante...we are so naive at times....give away 15 corners what you think will happen eventually? Most of BAyerns counters were hitting first man too....imagine if they actually Put in more than 3-4 half decent balls...just so niave in terms of not having size in the team. However, I have to say size ain't the be all and end all...fundamentally we defend them poorly...it's bad enough to make me wonder if we even practice them.

Fnally of course we need a CB....old ground, I'll say my time.

I think it's also clear we need a forward...knew this long before Bayern. Bayern merely rubber stamped it.

We got guys who are just too dependant on making runs into space and without it, have minimlal impact...it makes me feel bad for ragging on Henry back before for giving the ball away, at least the man was a danger, send the ball out to him, he was actually capable of going past someone...anyway I alas. I don't know if Neymar is the answer, but you know what...how bad could he flop to be a worse option than now? Teams can play any random guys at fullback against us, doesn't really matter....they won't get tested, all they got to do is communicate with their centre backs where to be, when to pass on a runner and they will be fine.

Anyway, my time is limited. My families visit had also coincided with a laptop breakdown. So most likely I wont be around consistently for a couple weeks. I'll tr and read and reply when and where I can.

BarcaLearning wrote:With all the talk about Sanchez a flop or not.... well he was captain I think in the game vs Bilbao after Xavi went off and then passed it on to Iniesta when got subbed, so it makes me feel hes definitely an important member considered. I think like Cesc, too harshly judged again.... unless a replacement comes and is proven settled its too early to just sell these types of players, not enough credit given.

Messi was captain.

dani, excellent comments no matter how late. Pretty much summed up everything in one post. We have all agreed I guess that a center back and a crack forward is a minimum must. The forward must be capable of playing off the ball as well - he cannot be Ibra like who always wants the ball to feet. As for the center back I like you feel we should go for someone athletic - tall, strong, fast with the technical and tactical qualities of course. We should try to cover up our athletic deficiencies. Being a purist is nice but not beyond a point. We can't deny physicality and athleticism are also a major part of the game.

Ok, same as the thread I made in the general section, it is obvious to me after watching this second leg, Tito has to go. Thanks for everything, but it is clearly not working out anymore. The way this game has been handled and played out, was a disaster, and shows Tito's incompetence in such a high pressure situation.

Its just for the better and not keep him for another season and hope for the best.

An overhaul probably not needed, but definitely a fresh manager that can add to our philosophy rather than just stick to it being so one-dimensional is needed I think.

Yes, let's make rash statements right after we got our asses handed to us.

To me this changes nothing. All we still need is athletic + tall CB, LB, WC GK, & Nerman.

I agree with BarcaLearning in the sense that we need the new ideas, that come with a new coach. Whether Tito can do this or not will have to be seen next year. I feel if Bielsa were to come in, it would be a revelation and he would do wonders with our squad.

We do need the line up adjustments, such as a tall athletic CB, Strong LB, GK (Valdes does nothing for us anymore), and a dangerous forward that teams would respect ala Neymar, Kun, Di Maria type.

The first of the changes should be in our coaching staff. It's obvious that the physical and motivation have been a failure this season.

Second, we need to be more practical. Our game is great when everyone is on top of their game (coaches too), but if they aren't, we can't just pretend to play the same. We hand the game on a platter to our oppositions. It is no shame playing with the strategy Bayern used in both games, which was to press at midfield and counter, and when having the ball move it forward fast with little risks. It's not our game, but it's attacking and trying to score.

Third, we obviously need new players in all our lines. Yes, even our midfield. I'm not convinced by none of our current midfielders. None. Even Iniesta and Busquets played awfully vs. Bayern.

First the exits:
Sure exits: Bojan, Afellay, Dos Santos, Cuenca (loan to Ajax), Villa, Alexis.

Possible exits: Cesc, Mascherano, Song, Puyol, Xavi, Valdes, Adriano, Alves, Pedro, Sergi Roberto.
These exits depends on offers and possible replacements. Not even my favourite Pedro is safe.

Promotions: Deulofeu, Rafinha, Sergi Roberto.

My shortlists for our signings:

GK: De Gea; Ter Stegen; Adler.
Ceneter back: Varane, Ramos, Dedé, Koscielny, Boateng, Iñigo Martinez.
Right back: Pisczeck, Carlos Martinez. (only if Alves goes).
Defensive Mid: Wanyama, Capoue, Pogba.
Central midfielders: Gundogan, Isco.
Forwards: Neymar, Julian Draxler, Marco Reus, Andre Schurle, Jefferson Farfan, Lewandowski, Robben.

I would definitely sign the first one of each position in my shortlist if possible: De Gea, Varane, Wanyama, Gundogan and Neymar.
All other signings would depend on exits, but I think all those players are quality and would do well at Barça.

My dream squad (considering feasible signings):

De Gea / Pinto

Pisczeck (Montoya) - Pique (Bartra) - Varane (Boateng) - Jordi Alba (Adriano)

--------------------------- Busquets (Wanyama)

-------------------Thiago (Xavi/Gundogan) ----- Iniesta (Cesc/Rafinha)

Marco Reus (Pedro) ------ Messi (Neymar) --------- Neymar (Deulofeu)

free_cat wrote:The first of the changes should be in our coaching staff. It's obvious that the physical and motivation have been a failure this season.

Second, we need to be more practical. Our game is great when everyone is on top of their game (coaches too), but if they aren't, we can't just pretend to play the same. We hand the game on a platter to our oppositions. It is no shame playing with the strategy Bayern used in both games, which was to press at midfield and counter, and when having the ball move it forward fast with little risks. It's not our game, but it's attacking and trying to score.

Third, we obviously need new players in all our lines. Yes, even our midfield. I'm not convinced by none of our current midfielders. None. Even Iniesta and Busquets played awfully vs. Bayern.

First the exits:
Sure exits: Bojan, Afellay, Dos Santos, Cuenca (loan to Ajax), Villa, Alexis.

Possible exits: Cesc, Mascherano, Song, Puyol, Xavi, Valdes, Adriano, Alves, Pedro, Sergi Roberto.
These exits depends on offers and possible replacements. Not even my favourite Pedro is safe.

Promotions: Deulofeu, Rafinha, Sergi Roberto.

My shortlists for our signings:

GK: De Gea; Ter Stegen; Adler.
Ceneter back: Varane, Ramos, Dedé, Koscielny, Boateng, Iñigo Martinez.
Right back: Pisczeck, Carlos Martinez. (only if Alves goes).
Defensive Mid: Wanyama, Capoue, Pogba.
Central midfielders: Gundogan, Isco.
Forwards: Neymar, Julian Draxler, Marco Reus, Andre Schurle, Jefferson Farfan, Lewandowski, Robben.

I would definitely sign the first one of each position in my shortlist if possible: De Gea, Varane, Wanyama, Gundogan and Neymar.
All other signings would depend on exits, but I think all those players are quality and would do well at Barça.

My dream squad (considering feasible signings):

De Gea / Pinto

Pisczeck (Montoya) - Pique (Bartra) - Varane (Boateng) - Jordi Alba (Adriano)

--------------------------- Busquets (Wanyama)

-------------------Thiago (Xavi/Gundogan) ----- Iniesta (Cesc/Rafinha)

Marco Reus (Pedro) ------ Messi (Neymar) --------- Neymar (Deulofeu)

I dont know much about actual coaching staff. But they tend to stick together with the manager? Meaning if Tito stays, the coaching will be the same?

I just cant envision it, even if we bring in new players that solves the problems in CB and maybe attack. Will we be able to play at intense high level like we did with Pep at our peak 2 years back? If we encounter a tough opposition, can Tito be trusted to make subs and changes to affect the game?

By coaching staff I mostly meant Tito.

Tito changed the game and was generally good at the begining of the season. He just went to shit when he got cancer.

Hmmm...but then this is also part of the risk if we keep him....if his health affects him again, we would be forced to make do with Roura again.

We need to buy new players, rumor is we're going to get four or five.

1) Neymar:
Whether we like it or not it seems he is our top priority and hopefully he'll replace Villa and add more danger to our forward line.

2) Thiago Silva:
-We need a replacement for Puyol, Bartra is too young and Mascherano is no working out very well along, TS is the partner Pique desperately needs and will turn him again into a world class CB.

3) Marc-Andre ter Stegen:
-Young promising keeper who could replace Valdes easily if given the time, shouldn't be as expensive as David De Gae

4) New Striker??:
For some reason I keep seeing articles of us being linked with strikers such as Lewandowski, Suarez, Aguero etc.

5) Marco Reus:
Although unlikely due to Dortmund already selling all of their stars, Reus would be able to replace Pedro who has been rather useless like all of our wingers as of late.

Out: JDS, Sanchez, Villa, Mascherano, Bojan, Afellay Cuenca

-----------------------Marc-Andre ter Stegen
------Dani Alves---------Pique--------Thiago Silva----------Adriano
------------------------------Buscuit
-----------------------Xavi-----------Iniesta
----------Reus---------------Messi---------------Neymar

that team would put us back in the map, but knowing us and being Barcelona, we'd just sign 5 new midfields that we do not need and fail even harder.

No way Huge changes dont come out of this ass destroying we got. Not even a single goal.

also, no way Messi wins the Ballon D'Or this year. Going to be interesting to see who gets it

Thiago Silva will not leave PSG probably and Madrid will not just go selling their best centreback to their biggest rivals so easily...
Piszceck seems legit though I doubt Alves will leave but Pisz is a good replacement for him
Reus won't go with Goatze and Lewa going... They won't sell another great player...

Thiago Silva? Why would PSG sell? We need someone younger, taller (190+, not 180 ffs). Also considering we'll be making 4-5 purchases we can't spend 40m+ on two players alone.

This guy knows what he is talking about

My post is on just what articles have been saying -- rumors about our transfer targets, lol windkick you always seem to be on my ass about everything do ya want something?

The Sanchez wrote:Thiago Silva will not leave PSG probably and Madrid will not just go selling their best centreback to their biggest rivals so easily...
Piszceck seems legit though I doubt Alves will leave but Pisz is a good replacement for him
Reus won't go with Goatze and Lewa going... They won't sell another great player...

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Thiago Silva? Why would PSG sell? We need someone younger, taller (190+, not 180 ffs). Also considering we'll be making 4-5 purchases we can't spend 40m+ on two players alone.

If we can't sign Thiago Silva, who do you guys think would be a solid replacement for the back 4? I'm thinking it has to be a Strong, Physical, Warrior type defender, not another ball playing one.

First off, Messi has to accept a change that the team is not only playing for him. He has to move to the right wing if that is tactically the best for the team. I hope he is learning this.

Next we need a good forward, one that can relieve some focus on Messi. I believed Dan mentioned Suarez. I would like to throw another playing into the mix, Wayne Rooney. He might be having some issues at OT, he would be a great addition to us.

Of course, a centre back is what everyone is mentioning. However, currently is there any centre back that would be great that we can spend less than 25m for? Thiago Silva, Kompany, Varane, Chiellini are all out of that range, so might be Hummels and I doubt he is that great CB we are looking for.

Plus another keeper to replace Valdes. Loris might be good if he continued the problems he had with spurs earlier in the season, but not anymore =(. If we were to look for a stop-gap due to lack of funds after buying a forward and a CB, we can probably look at QPR's Cesar, might last us 2 seasons while we actively look for the next great keeper.

windkick wrote:No way Huge changes dont come out of this ass destroying we got. Not even a single goal.

also, no way Messi wins the Ballon D'Or this year. Going to be interesting to see who gets it

I don't even want to see Messi or Cristiano in the top three of the Ballon D'or this time to be honest but they will perhaps anyway be there. Ideally the top three this time should consist only of Bayern and BVB players. Gundogan is probably my top pick. If he can shine in the final and win the UCL then just give it to him.

BTW I liked Donuts post on what kind of signings we should go for and what our squad should look like. It seems now we need at least two forwards, not just one. We need at least one center back but maybe even two. One or two more players apart from this could also be bought.

Donuts wrote:My post is on just what articles have been saying -- rumors about our transfer targets, lol windkick you always seem to be on my ass about everything do ya want something?

everything? I am discussing our CB situation, thats what I want tough guy

ToEy wrote:First off, Messi has to accept a change that the team is not only playing for him. He has to move to the right wing if that is tactically the best for the team. I hope he is learning this.

Next we need a good forward, one that can relieve some focus on Messi. I believed Dan mentioned Suarez. I would like to throw another playing into the mix, Wayne Rooney. He might be having some issues at OT, he would be a great addition to us.

Of course, a centre back is what everyone is mentioning. However, currently is there any centre back that would be great that we can spend less than 25m for? Thiago Silva, Kompany, Varane, Chiellini are all out of that range, so might be Hummels and I doubt he is that great CB we are looking for.

Plus another keeper to replace Valdes. Loris might be good if he continued the problems he had with spurs earlier in the season, but not anymore =(. If we were to look for a stop-gap due to lack of funds after buying a forward and a CB, we can probably look at QPR's Cesar, might last us 2 seasons while we actively look for the next great keeper.

More than playing at right or center, I think that Messi needs to learn that he has to run his ass off in important matches. Look at Ribery and Robben. They never used to run and defend like that. We need contribution from everyone in the future.

Varane is rumored to have a 40 milion release clause, I would definitely buy out his contract.