Re: What should be our plan forward now?

by messixaviesta Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:43 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:Was just reminded of an important point. Whoever the attacker we buy may be he MUST be able to play off the ball. We do not want one more player who only wants the ball to be played to his feet. So if Neymar is the one we are targeting and he sees himself as a Messi wannabe let's think again. Or at least find the right player for the other wing, one who will primarily play off the ball.

Dont agree jd.If runners are all we need,then we have plenty of that. Villa,Sanchez,Tello and Pedro are all players who play more off the ball and are quite good at it.I think that has been our problem.The problem is that Messi always plays on the ball,never off the ball.As a result the others have to sacrifice part of their game and always play off the ball acting as runners/decoys.The elite teams allow Messi to drop deep but dont allw him to turn and run and ofcourse completely cut off his passing lanes.So the other 2 forwards are rendered useless.Exactly what happened in most of our big games this season.

So I dont want primarily a runner as our forward.I want a crack and I want the creative burden to be shared between Messi and that crack.Ofcourse this implies that Messi will have to play more off the ball.But that will only make him a greater and smarter player and we will be much more lethal in attack.So 2 cracks and the third forward plays primarily off the ball.We do that and our froward line becomes lethal again.

Interesting alex. What I do wonder is why if all these guys are such great runners has our off the ball movement suffered so much. We don't have anyone with the pure knack of being in the right place at the right time ala Muller and Lewandowski. In 2010-11 Villa and Pedro made such a huge difference with off the ball movement. We have not seen that level since then. To some extent you have answered my question with your comments about how Messi plays and how smart teams cut out the connection between him and other forwards. However at times this season and the last I have seen our other forwards so out of place that even Xavi or Iniesta have no chance of finding them with a visionary pass. As I also hinted I don't mind another crack but having seen the last few years there's not one name I will back as a near sure success. Not Suarez. Not Neymar. Not anyone else. Then about your point on Messi having to play a lot more off the ball and sharing duties with another crack. It's hard to comment on that. For years he hasn't had to do anything like that. I can't guarantee that he will react pleasantly if such a situation is indeed created. Whether we buy Neymar or anyone else I think we will insist he stay in Messi's shadow as we it is rumoured did with Villa.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:20 pm

Talking about signings purely and simply because tactics are coaching is well documented.

I think Barca need two forwards....

Pedro has been reduced from a Freddie Ljungberg type forward who comes off the line and drops into space to a winger who holds width and subsequently offers sod all.

Alexis just simply doesn't fit.... he might perform now and again but long term its not going to work sadly.

On to defence i would argue you need two or three there too....

Puyol is a part timer now he needs to be replaced and Mascherano isn't a CB and a fullback in the Abidal mould needs to be purchased.... not saying completely get rid of Alba but the alternative needs to be there.

On to the midfield no actual signings are needed IMO but what does need to happen is a plan for the future needs to begin now.

Xavi has shown for the last 15 months that he doesn't have the fitness and athleticism to maintain his level against top teams any more there has been an over reliance on him and that has to end.

If you all remember when Barca where on top they had all technical ability they do but they had the fitness and athleticism too to compliment it.

The fitness and athleticism has gone and it needs to return.

So to recap: 2 FWDs, 2CBs, a FB, a multi functional midfield which doesn't completely rely on Xavi and a priority to recapture that fitness an athleticism to compliment that technical excellence which once made you the best.

by neuro11 Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:33 pm

messixaviesta wrote:To be brutally honest I do think that we need a new manager as well. We can spend a good amount of money and buy some important players for various positions but the team also needs fresh ideas and strong guidance. Look at all the clubs who have spent big money to elevate their status. None have managed to do anything without the right man at the top.

alfred actually made a brilliant suggestion which yesterday I ignored due to the mind being somewhere else but it later hit me. Getting Jupp Heynckes for some time sounds like a good idea. Hell even for one year it might be an interesting change till we can find someone in-house or very Barca like so to say. Heynckes is clearly angry that Bayern did not do enough to convince him to stay and chased Pep instead. He has been almost completely vindicated and if they win the UCL then there won't be any questions. I think any offer from Barca right now would make him jump for sure.

We don't want to disrespect Tito. We have the highest regards for him and we thank him immensely for all that he has done but some things are not meant to be. Due to his severe illness we will never know for sure whether he was the right man to take over the top job or not. It seems to me that 90% of number 2s around the world fail when they are made number 1. Sometimes the failure is not immediately apparent and the first few months may even go great but time eventually tells. A great example of this is Carlos Queiroz at Madrid in 2003-04. Could Tito have been one of the exceptions? Your guess is as good as mine but my gut feeling is not really. He tried to continue Pep's legacy. We need someone who can put in a lot of fresh thought. See the competitive world is absolutely ruthless. Time is of the utmost essence and it waits for none. We can't ask Tito to leave considering everything that has happened but perhaps he himself should just throw in the towel and concentrate completely on his health instead which anyway is bigger than any competition or trophy.

This.....agree with every bit.
However as others mentioned may be he deserves one more season for what he has done.
Guys plenty of talks and suggessions about who to come and who to go and seems quite reasonable too. I have one question:
do you have faith on them buying something good???
i was just thinking about what we bought in last few years and no doubt we are the only top team that has bought so many garages (with all respect to players) consider the money we spent, a huge amount and look at their contribution. I feel our transfer has destroyed our good team looking into a pretty bad shape at the moment. Look at the blacklisted players and the amount we paid. They did not improve our system rather destroyed it. So even though i know, we will buy players and let some go but i am not entirely convinced with such news.
just my few cents!

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:41 pm

I think as far as CM is concerned Thiago should be heavily rotated with Xavi. About 50/50 starts. This makes sense from any way you look at it. Thiago needs playing time, otherwise he leaves. Xavi is too old to start every game, he's too injury prone and has chronic injuries he plays under.

I'm not sure if we need 2 CBs, it depends on whether Abidal leaves or not. If he doesn't leave we can keep him as 3rd choice CB no problems.

I don't think we need 2 FWDs, while I'm not completely against it I think Pedro can return to his previous level with the right coaching and Deulofeu needs to be promoted. If Villa wants more playing time and is sold we should definitely get another forward, although I'm hoping he doesn't as he brings something very different to the current set of forwards.

by messixaviesta Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:07 pm

mole, in your opinion why did the Alexis Sanchez signing not work?

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:26 pm

messixaviesta wrote:mole, in your opinion why did the Alexis Sanchez signing not work?

Not enough freedom and restricted to what he can do individually because Barca are more about pass and move than any individual.

For Udinese he was allowed to roam, dribble a lot and look for killer balls the difference in philosophies were just too drastic even though i did think he would adapt but sadly not.

Last but not least though i don't think he was mentally ready for it and never really recovered.

Also BC on the FWDs situation when i said two forwards i didn't mention it but i meant new blood if one of them is promoted from within that counts as one of the two.

Tello deserves more opportunities next season too IMO

As for the CB situation the reason i said two is because i don't believe its fair on Abidal to expect him to be able to make a consistent and significant contribution.

by messixaviesta Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:03 pm

mole, thanks for the reply. Your comments as well as the comments of some others and my own observations of the last few years just don't give me enough confidence that things would turn out much better with another marquee forward signing such as Neymar or Suarez.

by BarcaLearning Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:38 pm

dostoevsky wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:dost, interesting comments. When you say the core of the team doesn't need to be changed there are various ways of looking at it. I would say Pep and Xavi have been very much core of this team. Pep moved last year. Xavi will slowly fade. In that sense to my mind this will be like building a new team. Your point about lack of intensity in training could be true. Somehow the memories of 2007-08 keep coming back. One of the biggest problems then was the training quality.

I can understand that you consider Pep to be part of the core, however I propose that you look at it in this sense. The transition of a playing group will lead to the balance of strengths and weaknesses being altered as the characteristics of the players will never be identical. For a coach however, whilst they will bring their own approach, they are at all times charged with seeking the advantage of their squad and the strengths of the side largely remain the same as in the past. As long as a thoughtful and strong manager is at the helm, the role is one of constant adaptation to the changing circumstances of the squad. I will grant your viewpoint this thought, in that Pep handled the given fact that no situation will ever be static by proactively altering the balance of the team each year in an attempt to stay ahead of the competition, rather than moving reactively to respond to the competition. Any manager should seek to construct rather than adjust, in this same manner, however I consider their management less integral in this case to the state of the squad. Even if Pep remained, the manner in which he altered his team each year tells us that the team would still be in a state of dynamic transition, even without the removal of core members.

On the point of Xavi, I don't consider his 'decline' to be an issue at hand as of yet. The key to his season has been the decisions taken to play him before he has returned to full fitness. Given adequate time to recover, he is no less dominant a midfielder. His management next season must stress the belief that unless a player is fully fit, he should not feature. Thiago would walk into most sides on the planet and must be trusted when Xavi is not fit. Used in this manner, I would have no concerns for Xavi's continued contributions to the strength of the side.

One name you did not address which I consider worthy of mention is Puyol, however again, regardless of who joins, how the team plays will be dependent upon the approach taken to defend from the front. Defence is very much a characteristic of a team and whilst it is vital that a key defender who can be considered part of this core group is brought in - in the case that Pique does not wake up from his stupor - it doesn't drastically affect the path forward unless by some chance you bring in someone so disastrous that he not only lets in goals, he injures everyone in training.

As for the issue of a forward, if Suarez is available, I would by all means grab him. Great forwards are not readily acquired and the few who I would prefer to Suarez if I were a Barcelona fan are not realistic purchases, such as Thomas Mueller.

Sorry but I know the consensus on why Pep left was mainly really felt tired? Can I confirm that again?

It seems to me if Pep was so proactive looking to improve the team all the time, and it was still ongoing, there must have been more reasons for him to leave the club he loves so much? And Im sure he even could come back if he wanted to. I still get the feeling that some of it had to do with the fact that he couldnt add more or felt he could get the team to improve or evolve for the better?

I agree a lot with the above.... we need to find someone like Puyol hopefully in the summer, like a Dante for Bayern Razz

For me Song is good enough mostly (although we still not used to in the real big games yet so he needs to prove that he can step up to that level). Suarez is class, but he is still a risk a bit like Ibra with a 'personality' and I would prefer if we found a safer option if we can find.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Alex the problem is that we have already paid 10M for Neymar. So he's definitely coming. Unless we bring in both Suarez and Neymar (which would be fine imo).

Didnt know that....what is the arrangement? Neymar and Santos to decide when he will move to Barca?

by futbol Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:17 am

Tito needs to go first. That will fix 80 % of the (tactical, motivational and organisational) problems of the team. The other 20 % will be fixed after buying a centerback, a centerforward and a winger who can do a bit more than passing it back to the middle like Pedro and Sanchez and the team is good to go. But the main culprit is Tito (although it's uncool to say because he suffered from cancer and all).

by CBarca Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:08 am

That's not fair to Tito at all. We played well until he cancer came around again. Very well, in fact. He has some issues, yes, but they can be worked out and he won the league title by December.

And despite our problems we still got into the semifinals of the CL.

Tito needs another season. At this point it's judging him on half a season. If you buy a player, and he lasts half the season and then gets injured, would you drop him, or sell him? I don't think so. Tito deserves the same chance and has done well.

Pinpointing all these problems on someone who wasn't here is not the right thing to do. I don't understand how Tito can be the culprit.

by CBarca Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:14 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I think as far as CM is concerned Thiago should be heavily rotated with Xavi. About 50/50 starts. This makes sense from any way you look at it. Thiago needs playing time, otherwise he leaves. Xavi is too old to start every game, he's too injury prone and has chronic injuries he plays under.

I'm not sure if we need 2 CBs, it depends on whether Abidal leaves or not. If he doesn't leave we can keep him as 3rd choice CB no problems.

I don't think we need 2 FWDs, while I'm not completely against it I think Pedro can return to his previous level with the right coaching and Deulofeu needs to be promoted. If Villa wants more playing time and is sold we should definitely get another forward, although I'm hoping he doesn't as he brings something very different to the current set of forwards.

Agree with all of this, specifically the part in red. Rotation Thiago with Xavi needs to be heavy and this isn't a bad thing. Thiago is ready and it will be good for him. Xavi is older and has chronic injuries and has been playing without a break for 5 years (at least). This is good for both and it needs to happen.

by futbol Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:14 am

CBarca wrote:That's not fair to Tito at all. We played well until he cancer came around again. Very well, in fact. He has some issues, yes, but they can be worked out and he won the league title by December.

And despite our problems we still got into the semifinals of the CL.

Tito needs another season. At this point it's judging him on half a season. If you buy a player, and he lasts half the season and then gets injured, would you drop him, or sell him? I don't think so. Tito deserves the same chance and has done well.

Pinpointing all these problems on someone who wasn't here is not the right thing to do. I don't understand how Tito can be the culprit.

There are too many subtle hints that he's not doing a good job. Way too many.

He bought Alex Song and claimed he could play as a centerback.

He also said this: "We had the money to sign a center back last summer, but I told the club to save it."

Overplaying the likes of Xavi and Puyol while underusing Thiago, Montoya, Bartra, despite having a 13+ point lead in La Liga. Horrible squad management.

Worst defensive record for Barcelona since the Gaspart era. Conceded 4 goals in a single game against Deportivo (relegation candidates).

Disappointing in every big game bar the Milan return leg:

Madrid Supercopa: got raped in the Bernabeu.
Madrid in CdR: got raped at home.
Madrid in La Liga: Lost to a weakened Madrid team.
Milan first leg: 0 shots on target.
PSG at home: just about survived.
Celtic: still no answer to parked busses. Overall result over 2 legs: 2-3. LOL
Valencia at home: narrow 1-0 thanks to an Adriano wonder strike.
Valencia away: 1-1
Bayern: raped.

Valdes hoofing the ball up all season and gifting opponents possession. No proper build-up from the back anymore. Pep encouraged Valdes to keep on passing last season within a single game in which he made an error (Benzema pass). Tito can't motivate him to keep playing it out of the back all season long.

The team had a spell of 2 months or so around winter where they played well which coincided with Messi scoring 10 consecutive braces or something ridiculous like that and that's it. He's clueless. The sooner people accept it, the better for Barcelona. His illness is just an excuse. The team had tactical problems in terms of pressing and defensive transition since he started coaching. He's coaching a team consisting of possibly the best player of all time + 7 starters that came back as European Champions last summer. This team must play a lot better.

by CBarca Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:54 am

This team must play a lot better.

But that was hardly being said when he was in charge early in the season. I remember to fapping to some of our football ffs, it was good stuff, and we were winning every game. Like I said, the league title was won by the winter transfer window.

As for the games, I don't know what to say. You're expecting Barca to always play well or what? You can pinpoint all you want but there are big games where Pep's team didn't play well either. The Deportivo game was a one off btw.

The transfers fair play you could say he didn't do well on, but it's not all up to him, and Pep made awful transfers time and time again (albeit with a couple brilliant ones). The man management could be better as well- fair play. As for Valdes, I don't see him hoofing it up that much more than any other season really, but maybe I'm missing something here. I don't think I am though.

You're being incredibly picky. Calling the man who worked as Pep's #2 while he was at Barca clueless... rofl

He hasn't done enough to be sacked. We're not Madrid or Chelsea who throw their coach out at the first sign of trouble. Tito was gone for half the season, it's unfair to him to get rid of him when he's done a good job in the time he's been here.

You're basing all of this off half a season ffs

That's not enough time to judge. Give him next year and we can talk about a manager replacement.

by BarcaLearning Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:06 am

Wow thats some tough stuff from futfol Razz

And its sadden to know if it proves to be true...poor Tito.... Razz

Surely hes not that bad I thought?

However, in the end, for the best of the club, I hope they will decided the best possible way forward, even if it means Tito leaving... I hope hes good and dont have to do that, but if he does, then who will we bring in remains a big question

by messixaviesta Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:03 am

futbol, you mentioned the Super Copa and the big games but missed something. In the first leg of that cup we dominated Madrid in a scintillating manner and should have won 4-1 instead of the 3-2 eventual scoreline.

by futbol Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:13 am

CBarca wrote:As for Valdes, I don't see him hoofing it up that much more than any other season really, but maybe I'm missing something here. I don't think I am though.

You definitely are.

Valdes 12 / 13 passing accuracy: 63.4 % (267 / 421)
Valdes 11 / 12 passing accuracy: 80.5 % (480 / 596)

I'll answer to the rest of your post later when I'm back from Uni.

by messixaviesta Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:49 am

Just read on Twitter that Tito may want to step down for health reasons.

If that happens who do you all want? My choices are Jurgen Klopp followed by Jupp Heynckes.

If Mourinho leaves as is rumored then Madrid too could be after these two names though the media says they have zeroed in on Ancelotti who has said he will leave PSG. Now if that happens then there is a financial superpower looking for a coach. Mourinho is said to be moving to Chelsea. So that vacancy is filled. Benitez will be free but I doubt PSG or any other big name will want to go for him. What other major managerial changes do you see happening in Europe this summer?

by eelir Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:15 pm

If that is the case and we cannot get ze germans i'd go with el Loco. He might make our team press again Very Happy

by alexjanosik Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:58 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:Was just reminded of an important point. Whoever the attacker we buy may be he MUST be able to play off the ball. We do not want one more player who only wants the ball to be played to his feet. So if Neymar is the one we are targeting and he sees himself as a Messi wannabe let's think again. Or at least find the right player for the other wing, one who will primarily play off the ball.

Dont agree jd.If runners are all we need,then we have plenty of that. Villa,Sanchez,Tello and Pedro are all players who play more off the ball and are quite good at it.I think that has been our problem.The problem is that Messi always plays on the ball,never off the ball.As a result the others have to sacrifice part of their game and always play off the ball acting as runners/decoys.The elite teams allow Messi to drop deep but dont allw him to turn and run and ofcourse completely cut off his passing lanes.So the other 2 forwards are rendered useless.Exactly what happened in most of our big games this season.

So I dont want primarily a runner as our forward.I want a crack and I want the creative burden to be shared between Messi and that crack.Ofcourse this implies that Messi will have to play more off the ball.But that will only make him a greater and smarter player and we will be much more lethal in attack.So 2 cracks and the third forward plays primarily off the ball.We do that and our froward line becomes lethal again.

Interesting alex. What I do wonder is why if all these guys are such great runners has our off the ball movement suffered so much. We don't have anyone with the pure knack of being in the right place at the right time ala Muller and Lewandowski. In 2010-11 Villa and Pedro made such a huge difference with off the ball movement. We have not seen that level since then. To some extent you have answered my question with your comments about how Messi plays and how smart teams cut out the connection between him and other forwards. However at times this season and the last I have seen our other forwards so out of place that even Xavi or Iniesta have no chance of finding them with a visionary pass. As I also hinted I don't mind another crack but having seen the last few years there's not one name I will back as a near sure success. Not Suarez. Not Neymar. Not anyone else. Then about your point on Messi having to play a lot more off the ball and sharing duties with another crack. It's hard to comment on that. For years he hasn't had to do anything like that. I can't guarantee that he will react pleasantly if such a situation is indeed created. Whether we buy Neymar or anyone else I think we will insist he stay in Messi's shadow as we it is rumoured did with Villa.

The answer is quite simple jd.Its not 2010-11 anymore.Let me explain.
Our system in 2010-11 caught everyone by surprise.No one knew what to do with Messi when he dropped deep.And no two games typified this more than the 5-0 and the CL final.Messi would drop deep,the CB's would get confused,try to follow him,end up in No Mans land and leave massive gaps for the runners(Villa and Pedro) to exploit.Our most used offensive play in that season and last season was something like this.Messi drops deep, receives the ball,turns,runs and slips the throughball between the RCB and RB for our LF to run onto.He played countless balls like that and we scored many goals from it including a couple in the 5-0.

Fast forward to now.How many times have you seen that this season even though Messi still drops deep.I would say very very few.They now watch out for that play and dont let it happen.They let Messi drop deep,but dont allow him to run and also cut off his passing lanes to the forwards.They also squeeze the space bettween the FB and CB leaving no space for a forward run and a throughball.In Villa,Pedro and Alexis we have some of the best movers off the ball in the world.However its still no use against the elite teams because our offensive play has become so very predictable.Even if we get another excellent mover,nothing will change as long as we play the same.Take the game against Bayern.Messi dropped deep but they cut off all his passing lanes and didnt allow him to run.Pedro and Alexis were rendered useless.

So for me the problem lies in our offensive tactics.I keep hearing that Messi is a false nine.He MOST DEFINITELY is not.A false nine will play at least 20% of the time off the ball when in possession and offer some semblance of positive movement.Messi offers no positive movement off the ball and is always coming towards the ball.Thats not a false nine.Thats a number 10.
The only time he moves positively is when the fullback has got behind and he makes the run to the edge of the D.Thats it. Otherwise he offers nothing off the ball when in possession.

So essentially we play 4-3-3 with a center forward who is supposed to play false nine but instead plays as a 10.Just too easy for elite teams to pick off.
The solution is simple.Messi starts playing as a real false nine,shares the offensive creative burden with another crack and starts offering far more off the ball.We become as lethal as ever.

by jibers Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:29 pm

My two cents.

Pep Guardiola is gone and with Tito probably leaving, Pep's tactical Principles will follow him out of the door. First thing is first, get a defensive coach to coahc the team in the defensive phase. At the moment Barcelona is worse at defending than Asrenal and that is saying something. Let the players rest seeing as they are absolutely shattered. Play Thiago more and slowly bleed Xavi out, the guys body is clearly falling apart, ran the most in every match for almost 5 seasons, has no break, was rarely injured, started every game, no breaks since summer 2007.

He has played in 2008 Euros, 2009 Confederations cup, 2010 WC, 2011 Barcelona went as far as you clould in every tournament, 2012 same thing again, then 2012 Euros, then now 2013 he will play the confederations cup again. Rest him. Stupendous feat what this man has accomplished.

Tactically if pressing is no longer going to be utilised as a defensive mechanism teach the players to defend their spaces rather than attack it like they did under Pep to recover the ball. Ball retention will still be there but improvement in transitions has to improve. No point in having 70+% of the ball and doing sod all and passing sideways. Look at Dortmund.

I personally think a new coach and fresh ideas are needed. No club can play the same way forever and win. It has never been done in football history and will never be done, Barcelona are no exception. Pep tinkered each year.

First year he introduced his tactical changes, improved Barcelona's fitness, started pressing a bit earlier albeit nowhere near 2011 levels, improved attacking transitioning and Barcelona's defensive positioning. Second Season, teams sat a lot deeper and he readjusted. Ball retention became a bigger part, Messi's permanent role to a false 9. 3rd season, teams just did not play Barcelona and went there to prevent a goal, further evolution, Barcelona took pressing to the higest level in football, this is the season where they reached their peak and accumulated fatigue started to become apparent, remmeber Pedro and Villa didn't score for like 8-11 games before the final.

Now we are here. I would say Bielsa because the team needs a general. Tito seems a bit like your kind quiet Uncle. They need a drill instructer like Bielsa. The pressing will come, fitness levels will come my only fear is that he will not rotate and fatigue will set in again. Bielsa is all about tranitioning so he will still be playing within the paradigm of Barcelona's 'philosphy'. The forward line and new signing will depend on the new tactics. It is clear that a gauntlet has been set by Bayern and Dortmund.

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:55 pm

I don't think we should fire Tito, but if he offers to step down citing health reasons I wouldn't really say no either. The fact is that he's recovering from cancer and he's not out of the woods yet, you're not considered to be "cured" from cancer until 5 years have bone by without a recurrence. So if his doctors think there's as much as 30% chance he'll have a recurrence I think he should step down, the stakes are too high and we simply can't afford another half season with Roura. I think his first half season was great, we essentially won the league in February and up to that point we were European favorites. I'm not trying to scapegoat Roura, but the fact is that we don't know how much involvement Tito had then or even now. How can he be a great motivator now if he can't even talk at press conferences for a month?

by messixaviesta Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:14 pm

alex, one more amazing post from you. Can't disagree with anything.

You hit the nail on the head when you say Messi is not a false 9 but a 10. This means that we play without any striker and with two wing forwards whose positioning suffers in what should be called a very lopsided formation. That we still have done as well as we have is then mainly down to the ability of the individuals.

This really explains a lot. In 2011 it was said that the Barcelona way is the perfect combination of the collective and the individual. Now people call us a one man team. That for me underlies the essence of where we were and where we have fallen now.

One question for you. How did Cruyff play in his days as a false 9? Did he play a lot off the ball? Did he share offensive duties with another crack?

by Zuess99 Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:58 am

buy or get llorente for free.

by jibers Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:23 pm

Zuess99 wrote:buy or get llorente for free.

What?

by messixaviesta Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:45 pm

Zuess99 wrote:buy or get llorente for free.

He has already signed with Juventus.

by neuro11 Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:48 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I don't think we should fire Tito, but if he offers to step down citing health reasons I wouldn't really say no either. The fact is that he's recovering from cancer and he's not out of the woods yet, you're not considered to be "cured" from cancer until 5 years have bone by without a recurrence. So if his doctors think there's as much as 30% chance he'll have a recurrence I think he should step down, the stakes are too high and we simply can't afford another half season with Roura. I think his first half season was great, we essentially won the league in February and up to that point we were European favorites. I'm not trying to scapegoat Roura, but the fact is that we don't know how much involvement Tito had then or even now. How can he be a great motivator now if he can't even talk at press conferences for a month?

Well, thats just some defense towards Roura, otherwise it is a pretty crap thing to say that Tito is doing player selection and making other decision from USA, Roura just replacing as a person. I mean that is impossible right? Its football not share market you can control from anywhere in the world....lolz

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