Benzema refuses to sing the national anthem

atlantic ocean national team


where you lived more, where you grew up, learned and offered, thats your nationality

vanDEEZ wrote:Here's a hypothetical for you. Pregnant mom from Germany goes on a cruise. During the crusie she gives birth.

By a lot of your guys' logic her son should play for the Atlantic Ocean National team.

You can't choose where you are born, just like you cannot choose your race, but you can choose where you grow up and where you call home.

I definitely had no say in where I grew up, and I dont know anybody who did.

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:It all boils down to connection for me. If you're raised in a country you should have the right to play for them. But if you go to a completely different country that you or your parents have no previous connection to because a football team purchased you I don't think you should play for the National team.

I'm not talking about citizenship here, I don't care who gets citizenship for whichever country that's something I have ZERO problem with. In football terms I think you need a better reason to be allowed to play for a National team than "A club bought me in this country and now i'm also a citizen here."

Call me whatever you want but it's my opinion and I know i'm not 'Fascist'

This is about playing for a National sports team, people need to stop generalising and thinking along the lines of "Oh *name* doesn't think that player should play for that National team, he must not want foriegn people in his/her country"

Please return the 1934 and 2006 world cups. Given that you won them with oriundi who were not born or raised in Italy you have no claim to that trophy. The Italian government decided that Guiaita, Orsi, Monti & Camoranesi (amongst other prestigious names that did not win the WC such as Altafini) met the requirements to be considered fellow Italians, but you have to be born or raised there according to you. Delivery to Czechoslovakia and France should take place ASAP.

Not really sure how to respond to that. What you're basically saying is you're against my argument because Italy won World cups with a couple of non-italians in their team?

Pls go.

Where in my argument did I even mention Italy or winning cups or anything else?

If you have basically no connection to a country I don't think you should represent the National football team. It has nothing to do with the past, I think they should change it for the future.

And if we're picking on Italy for that then just about every footballing country should give up anything they've ever won.

P.s. Might be difficult to give the trophy to Czechoslovakia, considering they're no longer together. Too bad

My point is that your argument is clearly at odds with the NT you support's history and that hence you should return the trophies that were not 100% italian.

Anyways, I have a hard time grasping how you can tell someone that is a citizen that he doesn't have "good enough" reasons to play for that NT. There are essentially 2 ways to become a citizen as I understand it: you either live somewhere for a period determined to be long enough that the country assumes you assimilated to the culture (normally 7-10 years) or through blood. It's not like they get the citizenship within a year.

Also: Just split the trophy in half and give each country a part. Alternatively: let them go to war over it.

Betty La Fea wrote:

vanDEEZ wrote:Here's a hypothetical for you. Pregnant mom from Germany goes on a cruise. During the crusie she gives birth.

By a lot of your guys' logic her son should play for the Atlantic Ocean National team.

You can't choose where you are born, just like you cannot choose your race, but you can choose where you grow up and where you call home.

I definitely had no say in where I grew up, and I dont know anybody who did.

Are you a world class football player? Do you have the prospect of playing for a national team? Because that's what we are talking about here.

Almost all of these players are scouted from a young age and offered spots at youth teams. So, ya. They do get to choose where they grow up a lot of the time. G.Rossi for instance. Born in USA moved to Italy to play for Parma youth team. Now hes an Italian international

Once again I don't give a damn about the past and how they've handled it, I am talking in the future. What either country has/has not won isn't going to change because of what you or I say...

I think a stricter criteria for who plays in the National team would make International football better and leave smaller countries with a better chance of competing.

Yes my argument is at odds with the NT. However, if I could go to the government and demand £3,000,000 because I have worked in a dusty environment before, would I do it? Yes you're damn right I would. But would I agree with it or think that it's the right thing for the government to do? No I wouldn't.

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter if my opinion conflicts with my interests. And I think in the future it would be better if you played for a National team because

A) You spent a large portion of your childhood being brought up there
B) Both of your parents are from there

Not because
A) You went to a country that you previously have nothing to do with because a football club purchased you and you went on to get citizenship
B) One of your parents are from the country, you never lived there.

Oh and also, one thing I am hugely against is players making a national switch because they thought they couldn't get into the better National side. Then they turn out to be wanted and pretty much jump ship. Yeah, they clearly done it out of love for their country

Then you have players who play for a country because of a Grandparent. seriously?

This is what I'm against. Of course, people read my posts and assumed I was against players with foriegn parents playing for a National team. Which i'm not opposed to at all so long as they were brought up in the country.

If someone gains the citizenship as per the laws of the country, then that person should be eligible to play for the national team.

What is so hard about this concept?

Because it allows people like Jenkinson to pick and chose at the early stages of their international career. You shouldn't be able to jump teams because one's better than the other or because you know you can get into one but not the other.

It's wrong, that should be kept to club football alone.

France, - creator of the dangerous virus that is nationalism, - destroyer of European multiculturalism forever

SaveusUSA#

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Because it allows people like Jenkinson to pick and chose at the early stages of their international career. You shouldn't be able to jump teams because one's better than the other or because you know you can get into one but not the other.

It's wrong, that should be kept to club football alone.

Citizenship laws are usually quite strict. So, i am assuming that someone like Jenkinson would have to go through the natural process of gaining a citizenship and i am sure the process is usually quite lengthy.

Of course, i am against the government just awarding the citizenship without going through the process, just so that Jenkinson can play for the NT. But, if someone can work for the government after gaining the citizenship, then why cannot they play for the NT?

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:It all boils down to connection for me. If you're raised in a country you should have the right to play for them. But if you go to a completely different country that you or your parents have no previous connection to because a football team purchased you I don't think you should play for the National team.

I'm not talking about citizenship here, I don't care who gets citizenship for whichever country that's something I have ZERO problem with. In football terms I think you need a better reason to be allowed to play for a National team than "A club bought me in this country and now i'm also a citizen here."

Call me whatever you want but it's my opinion and I know i'm not 'Fascist'

This is about playing for a National sports team, people need to stop generalising and thinking along the lines of "Oh *name* doesn't think that player should play for that National team, he must not want foriegn people in his/her country"

Please return the 1934 and 2006 world cups. Given that you won them with oriundi who were not born or raised in Italy you have no claim to that trophy. The Italian government decided that Guiaita, Orsi, Monti & Camoranesi (amongst other prestigious names that did not win the WC such as Altafini) met the requirements to be considered fellow Italians, but you have to be born or raised there according to you. Delivery to Czechoslovakia and France should take place ASAP.

You don't get it, plus it is just an opinion and a theory. Nobody is saying to change the past or give trophies back what are you on about? This is a discussion and we both agree on something you disagree. Club football is for players to choose clubs and international football should be down to players that are from that country not players who want to play for a national team after moving to a club a few years back. I also think people shouldn't be granted multiple citizenship because that makes absolutely no sense, i don't see how a person can choose which country he wants to be part of but that's a whole another discussion.

For example how would you feel if Messi chose Spain over Argentina, since he was born in Argentina but grew up in Spain. As a fan of Messi i would be outraged that he turned on his country. If you think about it he saw who was coming through the ranks in Spain and could have been a double Euro winner and World Champion but he stayed with Argentina.

Not because
A) You went to a country that you previously have nothing to do with because a football club purchased you and you went on to get citizenship
B) One of your parents are from the country, you never lived there.

Say you move to Spain when you are 18. Fast forward 10 years. You speak perfect Spanish with an accent typical of the region. You have a Spanish friends, wife and kids. You feel Spain has taken you in and call it home and decide to apply for citizenship because of practical and sentimental reasons. The Spanish government agrees and awards this person citizenship. This person also happens to be a footballer who has not represented his home country at a senior level. He gets a call from Del Bosque.

Why shouldn't he be allowed to play for them? Who are you to decide on an arbitrary rule that decides what is "Spanish enough" for the NT?

@White Star: Obviously I would be outraged. Just the same way I was very butthurt when Icardi looked like he was about to jump ship to Italy. But that's because I'm a fan and I want Argentina to do well so I'm very biased. As a person, I can understand how either one of them would choose to play for the country they feel they belong to.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Not because
A) You went to a country that you previously have nothing to do with because a football club purchased you and you went on to get citizenship
B) One of your parents are from the country, you never lived there.

Say you move to Spain when you are 18. Fast forward 10 years. You speak perfect Spanish with an accent typical of the region. You have a Spanish friends, wife and kids. You feel Spain has taken you in and call it home and decide to apply for citizenship because of practical and sentimental reasons. The Spanish government agrees and awards this person citizenship. This person also happens to be a footballer who has not represented his home country at a senior level. He gets a call from Del Bosque.

Why shouldn't he be allowed to play for them? Who are you to decide on an arbitrary rule that decides what is "Spanish enough" for the NT?

@White Star: Obviously I would be outraged. Just the same way I was very butthurt when Icardi looked like he was about to jump ship to Italy. But that's because I'm a fan and I want Argentina to do well so I'm very biased. As a person, I can understand how either one of them would choose to play for the country they feel they belong to.

Well if I had a situation such as that one I would be heavily influenced into making my decision. I don't blame the players, I blame the system. The players can take advantage of it and why wouldn't they? But it doesn't mean the system is correct.

And if you spend your first 18 years in a country, you really should be representing either them or nobody if you don't like the country. This is my opinion, and I stick to it.

And please stop with the "Who are you to decide?" nonsense. If somebody thinks that something such as a rule should change then it's their own opinion. We don't just keep every rule the same because "Who are we do decide anything?"

Are you suggesting people shouldn't get a say in matters and that we should just let the powers that be decide everything?

kiranr wrote:
If someone gains the citizenship as per the laws of the country, then that person should be eligible to play for the national team.

What is so hard about this concept?

Agreed 100% and I don't understand why this isn't right.

And please stop with the "Who are you to decide?" nonsense. If somebody thinks that something such as a rule should change then it's their own opinion. We don't just keep every rule the same because "Who are we do decide anything?"

Are you suggesting people shouldn't get a say in matters and that we should just let the powers that be decide everything?

Not the powers that be but each individual person. This is a very personal decision and if someone believes himself to be of that nationality, naturalized or not, then he should have the ability to decide for himself rather than let an arbitrary rule decide for him as you suggest.

National anthems are overrated.. I would never sing it no matter how much I love the country.. Hell if I'm wearing a hat during a national anthem, I don't take it off and put it by my heart which is the norm.. I don't even take my hat off period lol

I think it just makes sense for a player to play for the country he was born in. If a player moves when he's 6 months old or something to a new country, then again, it kinda makes sense for him to play for that new country. However if the player moves when he's older to a new country and plays for them, well I think it'd be better if he plays for the country he was born in. Not saying there should be a rule or something, however imo it just makes more sense.

Yohan Modric wrote:I think it just makes sense for a player to play for the country he was born in. If a player moves when he's 6 months old or something to a new country, then again, it kinda makes sense for him to play for that new country. However if the player moves when he's older to a new country and plays for them, well I think it'd be better if he plays for the country he was born in. Not saying there should be a rule or something, however imo it just makes more sense.

Not that simple. Is 10 years old is older enough . 15 ? 16 ?

Let's say every summer or so he goes back to his first country , so basically he lives between the two ...

I'd say where he spends the majority of his time or he's spent the majority of his time.

Yohan Modric wrote:I'd say where he spends the majority of his time or he's spent the majority of his time.

Still difficult . The fact is nowadays the globalization is so important that a lot of players will always have the choice between 2 countries at least.

what i don't like is Deco playing for Portugal because he has been there long enough and didn't have a real chance with Brazil NT ; Or Salomon Kalou asking for Neetherland's nationality because he had been playing there for a few years. They said no to Kalou but if he was as good as RVP or Robben they would have said yes. so it's not only the player fault

Again, countries choose their immigration requirements. Who are we to pass judgement on how countries allow citizenship? If people from that country don't like it, they can elect different politicians. Footy has already taken a stand by not allowing a player to play for more than one country in his career. There's no legal way that footy can enforce anything more... in fact, they are already at odds with international law on this one lol.

This whole thread has become ridiculous.

sportsczy wrote:Again, countries choose their immigration requirements. Who are we to pass judgement on how countries allow citizenship? If people from that country don't like it, they can elect different politicians.

This whole thread has become ridiculous.

Agreed.

No issue here imo.

nationalism and patriotism = main promoters of racism and facism.