COPA DEL REY EL CLASICO FIRST LEG: Real Madrid vs FC BARCELONA

It's only since we bought Cesc since we have had this problem,the problem of trying to fit him into the team and like I said from the beginning the only way is for him to be a sub for Iniesta or Xavi.Trying to squeeze Cesc in has ruined the balance of the team,we get away with it against the smaller teams but when playing Madrid it just doesn't work as well as our old 4 - 3 - 3 with two inside forwards to run in behind the defense and the best midfield trio of all time playing on a consistent basis.

I don't think we should have ever signed Cesc,his arrival has brought more problems than solutions imo.If he weren't Catalan and never trained at La Masia I don't think we would have ever bought him.

Have to admit, Fabregas is one of my favourite players but like many are saying, his transfer has created more problems than solutions.

worms wrote:It's only since we bought Cesc since we have had this problem,the problem of trying to fit him into the team and like I said from the beginning the only way is for him to be a sub for Iniesta or Xavi.Trying to squeeze Cesc in has ruined the balance of the team,we get away with it against the smaller teams but when playing Madrid it just doesn't work as well as our old 4 - 3 - 3 with two inside forwards to run in behind the defense and the best midfield trio of all time playing on a consistent basis.

I don't think we should have ever signed Cesc,his arrival has brought more problems than solutions imo.If he weren't Catalan and never trained at La Masia I don't think we would have ever bought him.

Half true. Pep put Keita in, moving Iniesta out wide...for no reason whatsoever.

But I agree with everything you said none the less.

I thought I could come to like the idea of Cesc, if he simply rotated with Iniesta/Messi but thats not happening anymore.

Don't blame your coach's poor tactics on Fàbregas. You don't have to play everyone you sign. At the end of the day it was down to Barcelona and their disability to hurt Madrid when they could. And frankly you could have and should have finished Madrid in Bernabéu but you didn't and now you have to do it the hard way.

Not really.

Its not Cesc fault, he is what he is..but Tito obviously has to use him, first of all because he is a great player but secondly because he is who he is.

But didn't Cesc complain about playing time?

Would have really loved to see two inside forwards with the two fullbacks on the overlapp. We would and should have troubled Essien... Can't believe we wasted such an opportunity...
We now have to play extra harder at home playing against a stronger Madrid side from yesterday...

free_cat wrote:Also, I'm fed up that we play Pinto in the Cup. Why is he played? Can someone explain to me?

I'll try to reply to that. Outfield players some time or another see game time barring maybe the youth products for whom they may think the chance will come in future. For goalkeepers its nearly impossible to get game time unless they start. Since Pinto has been a loyal and passionate servant of the club for quite some time, this is the one reward he is given. We being Barca refuse to change this policy even when we are facing Real and/or playing the final. This will stop only if and when we let him go.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:If it means Iniesta must be benched then so be it.

Why should Iniesta be benched instead of Fabregas? Not only is Iniesta an other worldly player and one of the best attacking midfielders of all time but he also seems to be in the form of his life. I for one think that Iniesta would have won us this game and quite comfortably at that if he was playing in the center because when he had the ball he was sublime and the pity is that he didn't get the ball that much. At times I almost feel Iniesta should leave Barcelona because not only would it help to solve the Barca midfield and forward conundrum but Iniesta could make so many of the teams ( and big teams at that ) about twice as good as they are currently.

alexjanosik wrote:
Dont say that man.
But the shoddy way he has been treated,probably would be best for him to leave.Undeservedly kept out of the team.Its now evident that all the quotes about Villa being a winter signing for us was a load of nonsense.

Agree completely. Thankfully the deal didn't happen but the media is quite clear Villa wanted to go and thats understandable.

The Franchise wrote:This is the biggest flaw of this legendary side in my opinion, getting carried away and playing too many midfielders.

Well you are a visionary because many months back you had said that if we sign Fabregas this is what is likely to happen and it will be the biggest mistake Barcelona make in many years.

worms wrote:It's only since we bought Cesc since we have had this problem,the problem of trying to fit him into the team and like I said from the beginning the only way is for him to be a sub for Iniesta or Xavi.Trying to squeeze Cesc in has ruined the balance of the team,we get away with it against the smaller teams but when playing Madrid it just doesn't work as well as our old 4 - 3 - 3 with two inside forwards to run in behind the defense and the best midfield trio of all time playing on a consistent basis.

I don't think we should have ever signed Cesc,his arrival has brought more problems than solutions imo.If he weren't Catalan and never trained at La Masia I don't think we would have ever bought him.

A top class post!!!

We refused to chase Ozil and/or Silva simply because it was decided long back that Fabregas would be brought back.

Now I want to rethink what happened in the summer of 2011 from Fabregas' perspective. Suppose he had decided that Arsenal were for many years not strengthening enough to win the big trophies. Where could he have gone?

1. Real Madrid - Could he do it being not just a Barca youth player but also a Catalan? Even if he did there was Ozil already there and would he have done better than how Modric has done so far?

2. Some other big club in England - Do a Robin van Persie and move to Manchester United. Na. He is too nice a guy to backstab Arsenal fans like that.

3. Italy - It doesn't help that most teams have there have fallen so much. Most wouldn't be ready to pay the price and wouldn't be expected to challenge much in the UCL. Maybe Juventus but Pirlo was already there. Besides Juventus also doesn't usually want to shell the big bucks.

4. Bayern Munich - With Toni Kroos there this was difficult too but it might just have been the best option. If they paid E40 m for Javi Martinez I wouldn't rule out them wanting to pay the big bucks for Cesc.

His options were understandably very limited.

I have never really bought that he left Arsenal because he wanted to come home to the club of his youth. That may have been at most the second reason in his mind but what it did serve to do is win him a lot of sympathy from the world at large including even some Arsenal fans which saying that he wanted to move to another club to win big trophies wouldn't have done.

The Franchise wrote:
Half true. Pep put Keita in, moving Iniesta out wide...for no reason whatsoever.

But I agree with everything you said none the less.

I thought I could come to like the idea of Cesc, if he simply rotated with Iniesta/Messi but thats not happening anymore.

What you mention about Keita happened either when Iniesta was not playing or at times when Pep somehow felt that we needed more defensive cover and Keita would provide that. However it usually was a substitution decision and on the rare occasion that we may have started that way it was very likely not a crucial match. The situation now is much worse that this has become our best starting eleven either in Tito's eyes or as per what he has been asked to do by heaven knows who.

The rest of your points I completely agree with.

The Franchise wrote:

he is who he is

A La Masia product
An expensive signing
A Catalan
A world class player

Alas David Villa only fits two of these points!!!

CBarca wrote:But didn't Cesc complain about playing time?

In his defense so many players complain about playing time and so many do it much more rudely than how he did. However its up to the coach/club to decide how to react to that. In spite of all that I have said today let me make it very clear that I think not only is Fabregas a top class player but he is also a wonderful person - a true team player who goes out of his way to get along with the other players and keep the spirits high.

Let me admit I had said that the current formation and tactics were working to some extent. I did have my doubts about how well they would stand up in big games but still wasn't as sure they would fail as someone like dani was. Now though its become clear that it won't work. If we don't change the lineup then we either need to change formation which is not easy by any means or play more conservatively which we will refuse to do because its a betrayal of our style. So if this is how we play then someone or the other will hurt us bad by having to do not too much more than using the right flank well and perhaps parking the bus at times. Watch out for Milan now who would have observed the latest happenings very closely.

Since not just me but alex has also mentioned it here it is - Iniesta's Laudrup pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HakvPTq4XO0

How we didn't win this match. These evil dudes suck! Terrible performance vs Granada.

messixaviesta wrote:Since not just me but alex has also mentioned it here it is - Iniesta's Laudrup pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HakvPTq4XO0

So amazing.

I see what Alba was doing there but it was the wrong decision. He should have just went for goal.

Iniesta

messixaviesta wrote:

The Franchise wrote:
Half true. Pep put Keita in, moving Iniesta out wide...for no reason whatsoever.

But I agree with everything you said none the less.

I thought I could come to like the idea of Cesc, if he simply rotated with Iniesta/Messi but thats not happening anymore.

What you mention about Keita happened either when Iniesta was not playing or at times when Pep somehow felt that we needed more defensive cover and Keita would provide that. However it usually was a substitution decision and on the rare occasion that we may have started that way it was very likely not a crucial match. The situation now is much worse that this has become our best starting eleven either in Tito's eyes or as per what he has been asked to do by heaven knows who.

The rest of your points I completely agree with.

True but JD, outside of Keita's first season I would argue than Keita never provided that defensive cover he was supposed to. He failed to do thaton many many occassions, both as a starter and off the bench.

I agree this is different though.

I'd argue Keita made us worse defensively when he came on

free_cat wrote:How we didn't win this match. These evil dudes suck! Terrible performance vs Granada.

You're the only team that knows how it get us to get it up for you <3

messixaviesta wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:If it means Iniesta must be benched then so be it.

Why should Iniesta be benched instead of Fabregas? Not only is Iniesta an other worldly player and one of the best attacking midfielders of all time but he also seems to be in the form of his life. I for one think that Iniesta would have won us this game and quite comfortably at that if he was playing in the center because when he had the ball he was sublime and the pity is that he didn't get the ball that much. At times I almost feel Iniesta should leave Barcelona because not only would it help to solve the Barca midfield and forward conundrum but Iniesta could make so many of the teams ( and big teams at that ) about twice as good as they are currently.

I don't think Iniesta should be benched, ideally he would play CM and Villa LW. But at the moment if I take it as a given that Cesc will start as CM, then I'd rather Villa play LW than Iniesta.

I haven't been following Barca in a while. Is Cesc like unbenchable now? lol

Cesc has started 17 games in La Liga and being subbed in twice compared to Iniesta's 12 La Liga starts and 3 subs. Also the comparison was much less favorable before Iniesta publicly complained about playing time, which may or may not have made him an instant starter (on the wing) after that, but it's definitely a factor that played a part.

Not unbenchable but very rarely seen benched.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:If it means Iniesta must be benched then so be it.

Why should Iniesta be benched instead of Fabregas? Not only is Iniesta an other worldly player and one of the best attacking midfielders of all time but he also seems to be in the form of his life. I for one think that Iniesta would have won us this game and quite comfortably at that if he was playing in the center because when he had the ball he was sublime and the pity is that he didn't get the ball that much. At times I almost feel Iniesta should leave Barcelona because not only would it help to solve the Barca midfield and forward conundrum but Iniesta could make so many of the teams ( and big teams at that ) about twice as good as they are currently.

I don't think Iniesta should be benched, ideally he would play CM and Cesc LW. But at the moment if I take it as a given that Cesc will start as CM, then I'd rather Villa play LW than Iniesta.

Ideally Cesc as LW???