Gun laws in USA

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Post by Art Morte Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:10 pm

Crazy stuff. But parents shouldn't allow kids have replica guns in the U.S., everyone knows how trigger-happy police and people in general are over there.

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Post by McLewis Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:48 pm

"Police say Tamir Rice, who died Sunday, had an "airsoft" gun that appeared indistinguishable from a real firearm. Airsoft guns fire spherical plastic pellets and have orange tips to show they aren't real firearms, but police said the one the boy had didn't have the bright safety indicator.

Authorities said the boy was told to raise his hands and was shot when he pulled the pellet gun from his waistband, though he hadn't pointed it at police or made verbal threats."

From this article - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/24/tamir-rice-boy-shot-cleveland-police_n_6211064.html

This happens far too much over here, but I do sympathize with the cops in these situations. They probably didn't want to hurt this kid, but he didn't listen to them. They told him to put his hands up and he should've done it. When you go for the gun, regardless of whether it's real or fake, that is seen as an act of hostility and the police are trained to use necessary force in order to protect themselves and others. These cops apparently weren't informed that the gun may have been fake by the dispatcher though I don't think that would've made much of a difference.

Tragic situation, but the moral of the story is very clear: When the police have a gun pointed at you and they tell you to do something, you do it or you get shot. They're not going to take chances in these situations.
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Post by Freeza Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:51 pm

Or Maybe the boy just though "hey I'm just going to get my toy, they won't kill me for that"

Agree with Art, parents shouldn't allow kids to have airsoft guns in USA. The country is pretty messed up with guns etc. ridiculous you can't even be safe from that.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:57 pm

@McLewis wrote:
"Police say Tamir Rice, who died Sunday, had an "airsoft" gun that appeared indistinguishable from a real firearm. Airsoft guns fire spherical plastic pellets and have orange tips to show they aren't real firearms, but police said the one the boy had didn't have the bright safety indicator.

Authorities said the boy was told to raise his hands and was shot when he pulled the pellet gun from his waistband, though he hadn't pointed it at police or made verbal threats."

From this article - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/24/tamir-rice-boy-shot-cleveland-police_n_6211064.html

This happens far too much over here, but I do sympathize with the cops in these situations. They probably didn't want to hurt this kid, but he didn't listen to them. They told him to put his hands up and he should've done it. When you go for the gun, regardless of whether it's real or fake, that is seen as an act of hostility and the police are trained to use necessary force in order to protect themselves and others. These cops apparently weren't informed that the gun may have been fake by the dispatcher though I don't think that would've made much of a difference.

Tragic situation, but the moral of the story is very clear: When the police have a gun pointed at you and they tell you to do something, you do it or you get shot. They're not going to take chances in these situations.


Did the cops really think a 12 year old would start shooting them though? He was a kid. They don't know anything. Maybe he was too scared to do anything or he didn't understand them.

There is a case for the cops, not denying that, but think it was a rash decision IMO.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:46 am

@RealGunner wrote:[

Did the cops really think a 12 year old would start shooting them though? He was a kid. think it was a rash decision IMO.



Common mistake, thinking cops in this situation are going to rationalise decisions. They are in a live life threatening situation (either perceived or real), they don't think unless they have the situation under safe control, they react to something in the way they have been trained to react, adrenaline clouds your faculty to make sound judgements, and hampers aim. I'm not an expert in the field myself, I just have some limited knowledge about it, and I feel its always important for a person to educate themselves on the relevant subject if they are going to make a judgment about it. Tragic case and on a side note I loathe air weapons used as "fun" toys that so often end up in the hands of youngsters.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:53 am

@Freeza wrote: get my toy


Note: This post isn't about the boy or the police

Following on from my last post, I despise these weapons. Have you seen the damage these "toys" can do? its awful how easily they fall into the hands of youngsters.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:20 am

In other news. Massive riots in Furguson as Jury decided not to charge Darren Wilson over the death of Michael Brown.

I don't know anything about the case. But it's highly unlikely the jury acted without considering the evidence. The media pressure was insane so to give a decision without getting under the pressure is quite formidable.



Last edited by RealGunner on Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Freeza Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:57 am

http://wgntv.com/2014/11/24/woman-saying-were-ready-for-ferguson-accidentally-shoots-self-in-head-dies/

No need for gun control.
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Post by Shed Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:22 am

Poll finds that more Americans back Gun Rights than stronger Gun Control for the first time since polling on the subject began:
Two years after the mass school shooting in Newtown, CT, a majority of Americans say it is more important to protect the right of individuals to own guns than for the state to limit access to them, a Pew Research Center survey conducted this month found
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/us/gun-control-gun-rights-pew-survey.html

Fifty-two percent of respondents said it was more important to protect gun ownership rights, and 46 percent said the priority should be controlled access to firearms.
The Pew poll on firearms, conducted in early December, also found that African-Americans have become increasingly likely to believe that firearm ownership does more to protect people than it does to threaten an individual’s safety, even as they continue to support gun control measures.

When asked in 2012, 29 percent of African-Americans said guns offered people protection rather than exposed them to greater danger, but in this year’s survey, the number of African-Americans who viewed firearms as offering more personal safety nearly doubled to 54 percent.

By contrast, the views of whites who believe guns are more likely to provide personal protection have changed more modestly — rising to 62 percent this year from 54 percent in 2012, the poll found.
Over all, 57 percent of Americans said gun ownership was more helpful in protecting people from becoming victims of crime, and 38 percent said it did more to endanger one’s safety.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:35 pm

Touché, NRA!
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Post by McLewis Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:27 pm

Growing up in a rough neighborhood near Chicago and now living near Detroit, I sympathize with the inner city black families who often can't depend on the police for protection from crime. I understand the need for a gun in those circumstances, as that is often the best way to protect themselves against very real threats. It's not about the 2nd amendment for these folks like it is for their counterparts in small towns who rarely have to worry about such dangers.
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Post by LeVersacci Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:08 pm

Another black man gets killed by a police man.

And 2 officers were killed few days ago aswell..

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Post by McLewis Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:23 pm

Ehhh this one' a bit different.

That guy pointed a gun at the police. Doesn't matter what race or gender you are, that is basically suicide by cop. There's just no recourse there.

As for the 2 officers...very tragic stuff. The political fallout has shaken NYC to its core, but yeah that guy was so off the farm especially after shooting his girlfriend as well. I'm not sure this was as fueled by the Garner killing as the media would like us to think.
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Post by Arsenalfaithfull Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:42 am

America is a 1st world  country with a population of 300 million+  and shares its borders wtih Mexico (a a country where its  hard to differentiate government with the drug cartel).

Gun crimes in the US is ironically active in states where they have banned hand guns. Work around that fact. lol


Last edited by Arsenalfaithfull on Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Arsenalfaithfull Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:51 am

I would say that there are more pressing issues which the government needs to adress in America. Things like lack of universal health care, Disparity of income between the "haves" and "have nots", ever present (but hidden) social segregation between the African Americans and people of western European descent.

Gun violence is there, but it is factored by other issues. Its definitely not the result of government having lenient gun laws.

Most guns and arms that are available in the ghettos and inter cities are infact smuggled in from south of the border.
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Post by Freeza Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:00 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/31/idaho-nuclear-scientist-shot-dead-son-walmart


Laughing tragic
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:05 pm

I don't personally really see the comic side of it, but I'm sure stories like that give some people a good laugh, along with a fuzzy feeling of validation.
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Post by McLewis Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:58 am

She paid the price for her carelessness honestly. That's not at all comical. It's senseless and tragic.

If anything, that kid is just as much a victim in this. That's going to be a doozy of a conversation when he's older and he finds out how his mom died, I'd think.
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Post by RedOranje Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:16 am

@Arsenalfaithfull wrote:America is a 1st world  country with a population of 300 million+  and shares its borders wtih Mexico (a a country where its  hard to differentiate government with the drug cartel).

Gun crimes in the US is ironically active in states where they have banned hand guns. Work around that fact. lol


But that's patently, factually false.

Gun crime rates are statistically lower in states with stringent gun control laws and lower gun ownership.

http://www.vpc.org/press/1406gundeath.htm
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Post by Arsenalfaithfull Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:00 am

^ wow that goes entirely against the points people bring up  to support pro gun laws. Let me get back to you that.
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:14 pm

Can someone explain south Dakota to me?

Population contains 4th highest % of gun owners, yet has the 13th lowest gun death rate, and lenient laws to say the least judging by its Wikipedia page.

Are they doing something other states aren't? Louisiana has a much lower % of gun owners and much higher death rate (ranked n1)
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:48 pm

@Arsenalfaithfull wrote:^ wow that goes entirely against the points people bring up  to support pro gun laws. Let me get back to you that.


There are no statistical arguments to be made for the NRAs points.
Arming the populace increases crime in every instance (or rather, de-arming the populace decreased crime everywhere it happened, iE Australia).

As I said before, you can make a normative judgement and say that a few (hundred) deaths a year are worth the increased liberty. After all, the gun ownership in the US has a romanticized connection to the public being able to defend the constitution and democracy against a tyrannical government. While that is retarded nowadays, it had a point back in the England-was-a-proper-monarchy-days.

So I will take someone at face value, and agree to disagree, if they told me they prefer that liberty over the alternate safety, even if sometimes your liberty can be pretty infringed by armed people bullying you.

I will not, however, abide fudged statistics and invented secondary benefits.
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:50 pm

@DuringTheWar wrote:Can someone explain south Dakota to me?

Population contains 4th highest % of gun owners, yet has the 13th lowest gun death rate, and lenient laws to say the least judging by its Wikipedia page.

Are they doing something other states aren't? Louisiana has a much lower % of gun owners and much higher death rate (ranked n1)


Much lower population density, I'd guess with a quick glance at the relevant statistics. South Dakotans have all the space they need and their gun owners are probably farmers in a lot of instances, who shoot the odd coyote (mountain lion? I'm not good at Dakotan fauna) or put down the occasional horse, while Louisiana contains a few larger cities, a few of them with grown-up city problems you get, when you country doesn't have proper social security (iE the unemployed and working poor eying crime as a not-so-bad option).
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Post by RedOranje Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:10 pm

@DuringTheWar wrote:Can someone explain south Dakota to me?

Population contains 4th highest % of gun owners, yet has the 13th lowest gun death rate, and lenient laws to say the least judging by its Wikipedia page.

Are they doing something other states aren't? Louisiana has a much lower % of gun owners and much higher death rate (ranked n1)

Living in extremely rural, sparse populations with an almost nonexistent dense, poor, urban population and very low diversity rate compared to other states with large cities and populations.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:06 pm

I may be off here as I've never looked much into American gun problems, but I was under the impression the majority of deaths involving legally obtained guns took place in the home by either accident or suicide, which has what to do with population density or urban population? Is the big problem people getting hold of the gun by illegal means?
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Post by LeVersacci Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:54 am

So a black man in wheel chair just got shot once by a officer followed by a a dozen of shots from mulitple officers.

Don't even.. Laughing

The video is on youtube if you want to watch
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