FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
+33
norton
McLewis
Abramovich
Be/\/ceCALI
Nishankly
Cassius
TheRedStag
Forza
DukeStreetKing
free_cat
DeviAngel
chinomaster182
7amood11
BarrileteCosmico
The Franchise
justdoit_
SaintJoe
FalcaoPunch
Zuess99
FennecFox7
danyjr
Art Morte
the xcx
VanDeezNuts
McAgger
white_star
Arquitecto
Pedram
stevieg8
Great Leader Sprucenuce
RealGunner
Le Samourai
sportsczy
37 posters
Page 4 of 4
Page 4 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
That means a lot to me, stevieg, I always enjoy reading your thoughts. Those type of comments keep me motivated to keep writing and sharing my thoughts and ideas with you guys.
Guest- Guest
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
rac-ism
Noun
1. A belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 racial prejudice or discrimination
------------------------------------------------
1. We hear all the time of Russian fans throwing bananas at black players. Why do they do this? Because they see black men as monkeys and believe white players are superior to them in every way possible.
2. These Zenit fans have quite literally said they do not want black players at their club because they believe in a tradition that holds that the club should remain 100% white. It may well have been a coincidence that this club has never signed a black player before Hulk and Witsel, but that's not the case anymore. It's now textbook discrimination and prejudice.
Both of the above meet the exact criteria for Merriam-Webster's definition of racism.
But no, I'm looking forward to White Star continuing to say this is anything but that
Noun
1. A belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 racial prejudice or discrimination
------------------------------------------------
1. We hear all the time of Russian fans throwing bananas at black players. Why do they do this? Because they see black men as monkeys and believe white players are superior to them in every way possible.
2. These Zenit fans have quite literally said they do not want black players at their club because they believe in a tradition that holds that the club should remain 100% white. It may well have been a coincidence that this club has never signed a black player before Hulk and Witsel, but that's not the case anymore. It's now textbook discrimination and prejudice.
Both of the above meet the exact criteria for Merriam-Webster's definition of racism.
But no, I'm looking forward to White Star continuing to say this is anything but that
McLewis- Admin
- Club Supported :
Posts : 13512
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
Minor correction Lewis.
They signed Bruno Alves a couple years back.
They signed Bruno Alves a couple years back.
The Franchise- Admin
- Club Supported :
Posts : 19651
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 38
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
Don't they have an Italian coach and at least an Italian player. They are not Slavs.
norton- Banned (Permanent)
- Posts : 187
Join date : 2012-09-20
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
"Zenit Saint Petersburg fans are demanding there should be no players from Africa or Latin America as well as gays in the team's lineup."
Also
"Many are also unhappy with the club’s purchase of star-forward Hulk as there was even a home-made bomb with a picture of the Brazilian on it discovered outside Zenit’s training base."
I don't expect Hulk to stay in Russia long, especially considering his recent bust-up with Spalletti.
Also
"Many are also unhappy with the club’s purchase of star-forward Hulk as there was even a home-made bomb with a picture of the Brazilian on it discovered outside Zenit’s training base."
I don't expect Hulk to stay in Russia long, especially considering his recent bust-up with Spalletti.
7amood11- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 3113
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
white_star wrote:Never said it wasn't racist!
You were heavily implying it.
white_star wrote:vanDEEZ wrote:white_star wrote:LOL I see some people don't understand what these fans are trying to say but I'm not surprised.
then what are they trying to say?
why even put in that kinda statement without explaining?
Because I am not an encyclopedia read what it says! Everyone jumps the gun on racism without thinking about it.
7amood11- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 3113
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
white_star wrote:LOL I see some people don't understand what these fans are trying to say but I'm not surprised.
Oh I understand them quite well, they're saying "Hello dear club management. We, the fans, are humungous racists and homophobes and really would not like to have our small-minded world view challenged by reality, so would you please lessen our football club, so we can all pretend that we live in Hitler-conquered eastern territories? Thanks in advance, XOXOXO,
Ku Klux Ultras, St. Petersburg
PS: Bortschtsch evening at my Grandma's on friday, wear a tie.
PPS: No homos."
VivaStPauli- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 9030
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 40
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
VivaStPauli wrote:white_star wrote:LOL I see some people don't understand what these fans are trying to say but I'm not surprised.
Oh I understand them quite well, they're saying "Hello dear club management. We, the fans, are humungous racists and homophobes and really would not like to have our small-minded world view challenged by reality, so would you please lessen our football club, so we can all pretend that we live in Hitler-conquered eastern territories? Thanks in advance, XOXOXO,
Ku Klux Ultras, St. Petersburg
PS: Bortschtsch evening at my Grandma's on friday, wear a tie.
PPS: No homos."
haha post of the year. some one book mark this.
VanDeezNuts- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 5869
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
stevieg8 wrote:white_star wrote:stevieg8 wrote:
I specifically said "you're entitled toy our views." But having an opinion does not make that opinion valid, and considering the manner in which you've gotten told off by the entirety of this community (twice in the last four days, I think?), maybe you should try taking a second look at yourself rather than calling everyone ELSE ignorant.
When literally everyone is dumping on you, maybe you should stop attacking others and do some introspection for once.
Just as a side-note - claiming people don't understand racism because they haven't experienced it in a European soccer stadium is one of the least intelligent things I've seen posted on here. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if your only experience of racism is from being around soccer ultras who are penned in and watched by security guards, you probably don't understand what racism can really manifest itself as.
And you can because you read it in a book? Please go and don't insult my imtellegence because I did not call anybody stupid! I was defending the club not the supporters but it's not my fault you can't read! I made a point and I dot care if a community of kids and fragiles agree with me.
Wow, great job showing you know nothing about me. I haven't asserted anything about why I know about racism, while you have repeatedly said you understand it do to being a Wisla Ultra. I'm going off of statements you've made, while you're making assumptions not based anywhere within miles of fact.
The part of your arguments I have disagreed with have NOT been the defense of the club or the city. I actually think you're right on that. You have repeatedly said that the letter wasn't disgraceful, though, and specifically pointed out how they say they're not racist - I'll edit my post in just a minute to provide the quotes from earlier on in the thread. You took quite a 180 on that position once you realized how wrong you were, and I actually find that commendable; as angry as my advice made you, it seems you actually took it, so props for that. Stop trying to act like I misread your original posts, though, they're all here for everyone to see.
The posts to which I'm referring: "LOL I see some people don't understand what these fans are trying to say but I'm not surprised."
"Everyone jumps the gun on racism without thinking about it."
SaintJoe: "The letter is disgraceful" white_star: "Why is it disgraceful?"
"They are sharing their point of you through a letter even stating they are not racist. Based on that they cannot be held accountable of wrong doing."
As you can see, you've made several statements defending the fans and claiming this isn't racist, then switched to the "stop generalizing" argument later on. I'm not responding to the generalization argument, because I agree with you on that. I'm responding to the fact that you claim to understand what constitutes racism better than everyone on here, and your reasoning is because you've been around racists in football stadiums. This is faulty for a lot of reasons, and I repeat - claiming you understand racism because of a sports game is painful to listen to. It's actually making me feel less prepared for my upcoming finals, because I'm worried it's making me less intelligent by listening to it. Please god, if not for the sake of a useless online reputation than at least for the sake of my sanity, stop saying something that makes me want to pound my head against the wall.
Stevieg8 is rapidly becoming a favourite of mine.
Post of the month.
free_cat- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 8546
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
Hulk to PSG, We will take Witsel.
Abramovich- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 6544
Join date : 2011-06-06
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
Hulk Arshavin swap pls
RealGunner- Admin
- Club Supported :
Posts : 89517
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
VivaStPauli wrote:white_star wrote:LOL I see some people don't understand what these fans are trying to say but I'm not surprised.
Oh I understand them quite well, they're saying "Hello dear club management. We, the fans, are humungous racists and homophobes and really would not like to have our small-minded world view challenged by reality, so would you please lessen our football club, so we can all pretend that we live in Hitler-conquered eastern territories? Thanks in advance, XOXOXO,
Ku Klux Ultras, St. Petersburg
PS: Bortschtsch evening at my Grandma's on friday, wear a tie.
PPS: No homos."
Good post but I think they are entitled to their beliefs and traditions good or bad as long there is no violence involved. Not defending their ideas just not going to act like I can stop their views!
white_star- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 1965
Join date : 2011-06-06
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
white_star wrote:
Good post but I think they are entitled to their beliefs and traditions good or bad as long there is no violence involved. Not defending their ideas just not going to act like I can stop their views!
stevieg8 wrote:
Just as a side-note - claiming people don't understand racism because they haven't experienced it in a European soccer stadium is one of the least intelligent things I've seen posted on here. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if your only experience of racism is from being around soccer ultras who are penned in and watched by security guards, you probably don't understand what racism can really manifest itself as.
This group is not content being entitled to their views, they expect the club to hear out their demands and I'm sure they won't be happy with the clubs most recent signings. The Hulk bomb leads me to believe something tragic might happen - I know that doesn't mean all ultras will that far, but we're not off to a good start. They just don't come across as the type of racists who are willing to sit and watch as "their" club starts welcoming minorities and homosexuals.
Guest- Guest
B-Mac- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 8830
Join date : 2011-06-07
Age : 34
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
white_star wrote:
Good post but I think they are entitled to their beliefs and traditions good or bad as long there is no violence involved. Not defending their ideas just not going to act like I can stop their views!
Of course everybody is allowed to have their voice heard in a proper discurse, but that doesn't mean that their position isn't objectively retarded, and racist despite beginning the letter with "we're not racist", which pretty much always is a clear sign you're dealing with a racist.
VivaStPauli- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 9030
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 40
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
Russia 2018, Uniting the World!!!! Pride of FIFA!!!
Swanhends- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 8451
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
Thanks to the Russian Orthodox Church it might actually be as homophobic and xenophobic by 2018 as Qatar is now
VivaStPauli- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 9030
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 40
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
VivaStPauli wrote:Thanks to the Russian Orthodox Church it might actually be as homophobic and xenophobic by 2018 as Qatar is now
FalcaoPunch- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 4186
Join date : 2011-06-05
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
Completely agreedfree_cat wrote:Stevieg8 is rapidly becoming a favourite of mine.
Also Vivas what a goat post
BarrileteCosmico- Admin
- Club Supported :
Posts : 28389
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 34
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
Whether they are racist, maybe they are, but from reading the letter alone, I'd call them nationalists. I remember the shitstorm when arsenal didn't field a single English player, this is on a similar path but further down the road.
DuringTheWar- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 2870
Join date : 2012-01-03
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
They're nationalists with a ethnicity-bound understanding of citizenship, though, then.
Which is the basis for fascism. Boom.
Which is the basis for fascism. Boom.
VivaStPauli- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 9030
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 40
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
THC 10 wrote:white_star wrote:
Good post but I think they are entitled to their beliefs and traditions good or bad as long there is no violence involved. Not defending their ideas just not going to act like I can stop their views!stevieg8 wrote:
Just as a side-note - claiming people don't understand racism because they haven't experienced it in a European soccer stadium is one of the least intelligent things I've seen posted on here. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if your only experience of racism is from being around soccer ultras who are penned in and watched by security guards, you probably don't understand what racism can really manifest itself as.
This group is not content being entitled to their views, they expect the club to hear out their demands and I'm sure they won't be happy with the clubs most recent signings. The Hulk bomb leads me to believe something tragic might happen - I know that doesn't mean all ultras will that far, but we're not off to a good start. They just don't come across as the type of racists who are willing to sit and watch as "their" club starts welcoming minorities and homosexuals.
Exactly the violence is why no one will take it seriously. There is no need for home made bombs and violence. The club needs to reject this dumb idea and the fans have to except of they are trully loyal to the club. If they don't they are not true fans but just racist Russians
VivaStPauli wrote:white_star wrote:
Good post but I think they are entitled to their beliefs and traditions good or bad as long there is no violence involved. Not defending their ideas just not going to act like I can stop their views!
Of course everybody is allowed to have their voice heard in a proper discurse, but that doesn't mean that their position isn't objectively retarded, and racist despite beginning the letter with "we're not racist", which pretty much always is a clear sign you're dealing with a racist.
Their view is idiotic but it's theirs. The club need to stand up to it. Trust me as a former ultra even if a club does not meet demands we stick to the club unless your views on racism are stronger then your love for the club. Like I said above club or racism the fans must choose.
white_star- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 1965
Join date : 2011-06-06
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
VivaStPauli wrote:They're nationalists with a ethnicity-bound understanding of citizenship, though, then.
Which is the basis for fascism. Boom.
If there were any black Russian footballers maybe they would revise the language they used. I don't know a single black Russian footballer
Last edited by Diego Armando Maradona on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
DuringTheWar- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 2870
Join date : 2012-01-03
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
VivaStPauli wrote:white_star wrote:LOL I see some people don't understand what these fans are trying to say but I'm not surprised.
Oh I understand them quite well, they're saying "Hello dear club management. We, the fans, are humungous racists and homophobes and really would not like to have our small-minded world view challenged by reality, so would you please lessen our football club, so we can all pretend that we live in Hitler-conquered eastern territories? Thanks in advance, XOXOXO,
Ku Klux Ultras, St. Petersburg
PS: Bortschtsch evening at my Grandma's on friday, wear a tie.
PPS: No homos."
Viva
TheRedStag- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 3045
Join date : 2011-06-06
Re: FFS: Zenit's largest fan group write open letter to owners
Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Whether they are racist, maybe they are, but from reading the letter alone, I'd call them nationalists. I remember the shitstorm when arsenal didn't field a single English player, this is on a similar path but further down the road.
Why expand to Slav, Baltic and Scandinavian states if that is the case? Clearly we're talking about an ethnicity and not a nation. I'm sure some of those countries have black players. Would you advise them to play for Zenit because you think the fans won't care about the color of his skin due to his nationality? Who's to say they would even accept a black Russian player when some users here still doubt Balotelli is Italian. And that line of logic certainly falls short when talking about gay players, who would still be shunned even if they were Russian.
BarrileteCosmico- Admin
- Club Supported :
Posts : 28389
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 34
Page 4 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
Similar topics
» PSG owners looking to buy Malaga?
» Open letter from Mourinho
» Champions League Group Stage - Group B
» Champions League Group Stage - Group C
» how do you feel about your team group & what are their chances of getting out of the group ?
» Open letter from Mourinho
» Champions League Group Stage - Group B
» Champions League Group Stage - Group C
» how do you feel about your team group & what are their chances of getting out of the group ?
Page 4 of 4
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Today at 6:22 pm by Arquitecto
» Pep Guardiola - King of the Carabao Club
Today at 6:21 pm by Arquitecto
» La Liga 2024/25
Today at 5:15 pm by BarcaLearning
» Syria
Today at 4:20 pm by Pedram
» Champions League '24/25
Today at 2:29 pm by halamadrid2
» The Racism Thread
Today at 11:29 am by Myesyats
» Serie A 2024/2025
Today at 10:42 am by Myesyats
» The Official Real Madrid Matchday Thread 24 - 25
Yesterday at 10:44 pm by halamadrid2
» General Games Discussion
Mon Dec 09, 2024 10:32 pm by Lord Spencer
» The US Politics Thread
Mon Dec 09, 2024 6:26 pm by Myesyats
» The Official PlayStation 1 Gaming Threads
Mon Dec 09, 2024 4:01 pm by Lord Spencer
» Ruben Amorim Sack Watch
Mon Dec 09, 2024 10:27 am by Glory
» GL NBA fantasy 24-25
Mon Dec 09, 2024 9:58 am by Art Morte