Who will Demba Ba join in January?

80k a week, plus 5m in agent fees, plus the transfer fee for a player that will only start some matches?

Rodgers obviously has his preferred approach and it's equally obvious he's not going to alter it unless injuries or vastly difficult opponents (top 2 or 3 teams in the league) demand it. As such that much expenditure doesn't make sense.




@ Art: Borini hardly had proper time to settle before his injury. It seems very harsh to decide to basically replace him already.

Genuinely good players settle fast (like Suarez), but maybe Borini will come good in the end. We'll see.

RedOranje wrote:80k a week, plus 5m in agent fees, plus the transfer fee for a player that will only start some matches?

Rodgers obviously has his preferred approach and it's equally obvious he's not going to alter it unless injuries or vastly difficult opponents (top 2 or 3 teams in the league) demand it. As such that much expenditure doesn't make sense.




@ Art: Borini hardly had proper time to settle before his injury. It seems very harsh to decide to basically replace him already.

Well how much is Walcott going to demand and cost, or Remy, or whoever?

Not saying you must buy him, just for me he is a better all around deal than those guys.

If Rodgers is that narrow-minded and closed to variations then I would be surprised. Changing the philosophy I understand not going for, but refusing changes details within the philosophy? Never heard of that honestly.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:I'm sure Liverpool and Arsenal can do better. I think he'll end up staying at Newcastle.

Unless they get Rooney or RVP i find that unlikely.....

Find it funny how Ba is treated as some average striker when only Rooney and RVP have scored more over last 2 years than Ba has....

So why is Newcastle selling him?

Swagg wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:I'm sure Liverpool and Arsenal can do better. I think he'll end up staying at Newcastle.

Unless they get Rooney or RVP i find that unlikely.....

Find it funny how Ba is treated as some average striker when only Rooney and RVP have scored more over last 2 years than Ba has....

So why is Newcastle selling him?

Your question is answered in page 2

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:It's really not a case of us selling him.... it's a release clause anyone that meets that clause and gives him the wages him and his agents want will most likely get him.

As far as Juve go he's not the marquee signing some fans may want but he's probably a better CF than what you have currently. ( if we consider Vucinic a SS that is)

Because he has a 7.5m release clause and refuses to sign a new contract....

It's best to move him on if he doesn't want to commit long term and get his replacement in and not cause any stabilizing effect in the dressing room.

Also i can't understand the people saying i don't want Ba and anyone but Ba....

Red O's reasons are fair enough because he doesn't fit tactically if Suarez is continued as a false 9.... but going PLEASE NO to a striker who has a 1 in 2 record over his career and as i said since joining the PL in Jan 2011 only Rooney and RVP have scored more....

You would think Ba is a average middle of the road striker with a poor record with some of the reactions.

It's not like he's useless outside the box either....

Again, both Walcott and Remy would start week in and week out... playing either alongside Suarez or in the central role when he's not playing, whereas Ba would likely only start when Suarez was either moved to accommodate him or when he's not playing. As such they would be more worth the fee and wages involved.

And bringing Ba in for the wages and fees discussed would entail changing the starting line-up to fit him... altering our style to fit his. That necessitates a movement away from the core approach we're attempting to establish. It's not a small change that would be required but a fairly drastic one... including moving our star player out of his (current) most influential and effective role. When he's found such form and the team is steadily improving in the current system it really, truly, honestly doesn't make sense to change it in January for one player, especially when there are other players available that would fit the system we're attempting to establish.

You're downplaying the types of changes that would be required to bring Ba into the side while seemingly brushing over the fact that the other players mentioned all fit into the current style while also adding other options.

@ Art: A key differences there being that Suarez is more than just a "good player," Borini is still very young, and is/was playing in a side that is/was still adapting to a new style itself. So not only did he have to try to adapt to the rigours of the PL (which are different from those of the Championship) but he had to do so while the entire team behind him was also going through growing pains and underperforming. Borini also relies on the rest of the team more than Suarez as well, due to the reasons mentioned above.

I did say your reasons were fair enough tbf.... i was talking about the people in this thread who seem desperate not to get him and it seems due to not being good enough....

Which is very unfair IMO, tactically i agree it isn't an ideal fit.

I get the feeling he will go to Arsenal anyway.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I did say your reasons were fair enough tbf.... i was talking about the people in this thread who seem desperate not to get him and it seems due to not being good enough....

Which is very unfair IMO, tactically i agree it isn't an ideal fit.

I get the feeling he will go to Arsenal anyway.

Those posts were directed at Franchise and Art.

tuddor wrote:
Your question is answered in page 2

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:It's really not a case of us selling him.... it's a release clause anyone that meets that clause and gives him the wages him and his agents want will most likely get him.

As far as Juve go he's not the marquee signing some fans may want but he's probably a better CF than what you have currently. ( if we consider Vucinic a SS that is)

I assumed it was something like that before I even read the next page.. I mean if he is statistically the third best goal scorer in the EPL, why not give him the pay raise and increase his release clause?

Or does he just want to leave the club?

He want's 80k a week and we can't really afford that.

We wanted him to sign a new contract with no clause but he declined so instead of leaving it until someone buys the clause and leave him vulnerable we plan to sell him early and get his replacement in early and move on.

I see

RedOranje wrote:Again, both Walcott and Remy would start week in and week out... playing either alongside Suarez or in the central role when he's not playing, whereas Ba would likely only start when Suarez was either moved to accommodate him or when he's not playing. As such they would be more worth the fee and wages involved.

And bringing Ba in for the wages and fees discussed would entail changing the starting line-up to fit him... altering our style to fit his. That necessitates a movement away from the core approach we're attempting to establish. It's not a small change that would be required but a fairly drastic one... including moving our star player out of his (current) most influential and effective role. When he's found such form and the team is steadily improving in the current system it really, truly, honestly doesn't make sense to change it in January for one player, especially when there are other players available that would fit the system we're attempting to establish.

You're downplaying the types of changes that would be required to bring Ba into the side while seemingly brushing over the fact that the other players mentioned all fit into the current style while also adding other options.

I am not so sure they will start week in week out, we will have to see but thats my feeling. Remy is coming from another league and Walcott has his own spells of inconsistency, I dont think, unless Remy sets the league on fire, either will start more consistently than in my hypothetical situation Ba would. But we are going very much into what if's now.

I dont think the issue of moving Suarez position is very drastic as your saying honestly. Better players have moved before despite success so I dont see why Suarez would be an exception.

And moving Suarez from false 9, to second striker in a 4411 does almost nothing, they are essentially the same role for him, the only difference being an extra body to play with in attack. Which at times, I think he even needs.

But more importantly, its not a permanent move...merely a tactical change. Starting Ba with Suarez in games where you may need more firepower, or throwing Ba on 20-30 minutes to go seems very worthwhile to me. Your saying you dont think he can be on the bench for what your paying him, but dont you have Joe Cole on your bench collectively a small fortune and not really contributing? Ba would be at least contributing.

I am not trying to downplay the type of change required, I just dont think its such an impossible situation or that drastic a change because its just a variation.

If Messi can go from playing false 9 to playing with a 9 in front of him (as he has done already this season) and being sucessful at both, then why not Suarez?

Dani it's not the question of which position Suarez can or cannot play but more of Rodgers moving him. Rodgers clearly sees Suarez as his main man up front, he wasn't willing to play Carroll or Borini there, so I don't see why he would want to buy Ba. Also everyone knows Ba is a prima-donna, playing anywhere other than his favored position will lead to unrest.

Switching from 4-3-3 to 4-4-1-1 isn't the issue either, it's a matter of changing from the short, quick passing we're trying to implement to a style that more suits Ba. Certainly Ba is decently capable of playing with the ball at his feet, but the type of game we're looking to play does not call for someone like Ba up top. Again, by suggesting its "just a tactical change" you seem to be either underestimating or down playing the significance of the change and what it represents as a divergence from our long term goals in terms of style of play and identity. Walcott, Remy, Sturridge all fit into that style, inconsistencies or no. Even though they can be inconsistent and/or frustrating they do so from a position where our only current options (as I've previously said) are apparently an 18yo, a fullback, a CAM, and an injured ST.

Walcott, Sturridge, Remy, etc would all walk into the side and improve it immediately without changing the preferred tactics, moving the star player, or forcing any type of reshuffle. Ba simply wouldn't.


It's that simple.

@ Messiah

Why was you pushing for Huntelaar a few weeks back then? i don't mean the club i mean some of the fans on here....

If you don't want Ba for the reasons stated then surely Huntelaar who is even more static and even less versatile not to mention being a worse footballer.

Then surely there's no reason to want Huntelaar either?

Also i don't think Ba would refuse to play wide if he was asked.... he played there through out his Hoffenheim career and West Ham career....

The main reason he's played central this season was because... A. Pardew wanted to find a way to play him and Cisse up top and get it to work B. once it was clear it didn't work Ba was in form and Cisse was terribly out of form it wouldn't make sense to to move the top scorer out wide and put a striker void of all confidence and believe in his place.

Oh and the fact Pardew is a clueless nut but lets not go into all that.

If you bought him i don't think he would make all sorts of demands to play centrally.

I agree with Red here

Rodgers is gonna want someone who is not just capable with the ball at their feet, but exceptional
(i.e Suarez makes more sense than Ba)

Also we all know Rodgers emphasizes possession and a true 3rd midfielder is a more effective way to achieve that ends than 2 true midfielders and a Second Striker

Suarez will likely continue at CF with wingers being brought in around him, I would think

If you think back then you'd know my personal first choices were always Jovetic and Giuseppe Rossi or Pukki ( ), and at the time when I was pushing for Huntelaar, Borini was injured and we had Cole and Downing getting way too many minutes for my liking. So you could call it knee-jerk reaction at the time.

Now that we are close to the window and it's time to be realistic, I want nothing to do with Huntelaar/Carroll/Ba type players. We simply have no need for them and frankly most of us are tired of signing useless players and selling them six months later.

Fair enough.... FYI i'm not saying you will buy him or even interested just what BBC are saying that you and Arsenal are the front runners currently.

They are not bulletproof in their reliability but more reliable than most none the less.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Fair enough.... FYI i'm not saying you will buy him or even interested just what BBC are saying that you and Arsenal are the front runners currently.

They are not bulletproof in their reliability but more reliable than most none the less.

A lot of those stories (even BBC's ) are based around need. We need goals from someone besides Suarez, therefore we must be "interested" in every quality striker on the market. If you look back at what the British media very generously refers to as links, you will notice that the pattern is the same. We're linked to any striker that might be available, regardless of age or playing style. This is all in spite of Rodgers statements praising Suarez as the club's false9, our Messi, and the player he wants to build the squad around. honestly, the last one is the most decisive for me in this matter. It's obvious that we want to play through Suarez as much as possible (not unlike Barcelona want to play through Messi). With that in mind, why would we move him out wide, making it more difficult to play through him on every possession?

The thing about Rodgers's playing style is that a fair number of goals should come from the wingers/wide-forwards. Suarez is going to drop deep to receive the ball. When he does this, the wide players are the ones that need to be stretching the defense and/or making diagonal runs to get in behind. That's why players like Sturridge, Walcott, Remy, Mertens, etc. are who we should be going after. Not to play them as a main striker, but to play them as a wide forward. Because of this, I don't really expect too much unrest, even from the forwards clamoring for a CF spot, because the wide forwards will get plenty of joy in this set-up.

As for Ba... what about Arsenal? They've been more and more direct this season with Podolski and Ramsey/Gervinho/Walcott/Ox/(whoever mans the RW) being more and more likely to get wide and cross. They're still no Stoke, but more direct none-the-less. Moreover, Wenger needs a ready-made goal-scorer. He can't pull his usual stunt of signing a semi-star from a foreign league and transitioning him into a Prem League star. He needs someone who can do a job right now. That said, his wage demands would likely scupper any deal there. If they’re not will to pay Walcott 80K, they’re unlikely to pay Demba Ba that figure.

Everton is a place where Ba would make tactical sense. This is assuming that Fellaini leaves in January, which I honestly don’t think will happen. However, if it did, Ba would make sense. He could hold up play, and provide a decent foil to Jelavic. Then again, Ba is unlikely to perform the “midfielder” responsibilities that Fellaini does so well. However, the wage demands would again scupper any deal that might be there.

To be honest, I don’t know what club would pursue him that could/would be willing to pay his wage demands.