Messi makes history

nandrolona wrote:

vanDEEZ wrote:am i being a dick by pointing out that muller broke the record in 60 games and it took messi 65 games?

Seconded.

And how many penalties for Messi and Muller?

See:

jiopsi wrote:

vanDEEZ wrote:am i being a dick by pointing out that muller broke the record in 60 games and it took messi 65 games?

Didnt 12 of Muller's goals come from a certain micky mouse competition or glorified preaseason tournament/ cup introduced so as to avoid rustiness to players before the start of the season ?

I'm not too sure on the details but the league was delayed or something.

could someone please further enlighten me on this issue ?

gondov wrote:

vanDEEZ wrote:am i being a dick by pointing out that muller broke the record in 60 games and it took messi 65 games?

Didnt 12 of Muller's goals come from a certain micky mouse competition or glorified preaseason tournament/ cup introduced so as to avoid rustiness to players before the start of the season ?

I'm not too sure on the details but the league was delayed or something.

could someone please further enlighten me on this issue ?

If you substract the games in question and adjust his goals scored to as many games as Messi has played he has him beat anyways.

And I still don't know how many penalties. I can't see it in the in the picture.

Talking about "first level" opposition, might as well follow it to its logical conclusion and analyse how many were scored against top 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 teams in the league and how many against bottom 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10 teams, if we want to distinguish which is more impressive based on quality of opposition

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Talking about "first level" opposition, might as well follow it to its logical conclusion and analyse how many were scored against top 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 teams in the league and how many against bottom 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10 teams, if we want to distinguish which is more impressive based on quality of opposition

That wouldn't be a favorable comparison for Messi I can tell you that.

I would assume Jiopsi knows how many pens Messi scored this season. I tried googling Muller's amount but couldn't find it anywhere.

nandrolona wrote:

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Talking about "first level" opposition, might as well follow it to its logical conclusion and analyse how many were scored against top 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 teams in the league and how many against bottom 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10 teams, if we want to distinguish which is more impressive based on quality of opposition

That wouldn't be a favorable comparison for Messi I can tell you that.

So what are we debating here?

Who is the better player? Gerd Muller or Messi ?

How many assists did Muller have as well?

Tbh, I dont really know much about Muller but I havent heard him being mentioned in the same boat as Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, etc.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I would assume Jiopsi knows how many pens Messi scored this season. I tried googling Muller's amount but couldn't find it anywhere.

And you'll never find it, he scored all of the goals from in-game

He is a great forward the best around these days. The only other ones that can do what he does, i.e. attack defenses alone but not quite as effectively are Falcao and Cavani.

Devi all 85 goals? I find that hard to believe.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I would assume Jiopsi knows how many pens Messi scored this season. I tried googling Muller's amount but couldn't find it anywhere.

Somewhere in the vicinity of 13-14 I believe.

Muller didn't take penalties according to what I read.

Anyway, Messi is great. Don't personally think it was his best year but it's still a great statistical achievement.

Did Muller create and assist many goals too ?

gondov wrote:Did Muller create and assist many goals too ?

Assists were not properly recorded at the time so we will never know. Even if you find assist numbers they were probably recorded employing a much different methodology.

But it's safe to say he wasn't as creative a player as Messi is. It's pretty safe to say he wasn't quite as good either...though I see the argument (and personally tend to agree with it) for his year being better.

The penalty point isn't really a significant part of the argument IMO.

DeviAngel wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I would assume Jiopsi knows how many pens Messi scored this season. I tried googling Muller's amount but couldn't find it anywhere.

And you'll never find it, he scored all of the goals from in-game

It began on January 20, 1972, with a game away at Fortuna Dusseldorf. On a foggy, damp afternoon, Muller had a very quiet game - until the 70th minute. Franz Krauthausen took a corner and tipped it to Uli Hoeness, who sent in a cross, which Fortuna's goalkeeper Wilfried Woyke misjudged. Muller headed home from close range for the only goal of the game.

Muller's football year ended on December 20, 1972, with a cup game against Barmbek-Uhlenhorst, a club based in Hamburg and at that time in the second division. He opened the scoring in the third minute from a Hoeness pass, then he made it 5-0 on 57 minutes when he moved past a defender and the goalkeeper in the tightest of spaces and just walked across the line with the ball at his feet. Four minutes from time, he completed his hat-trick from the penalty spot.



http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story/_/id/1228330/hesse:-looking-for-gerd-muller-goals?cc=5739

Scoring against Barmbek-Uhlenhorst is worth 50 La Liga goals though.

http://www.fussballdaten.de/

Gerd Muller scored a total of 6 penalties in the Bundesliga in 71/72 and 72/73 combined, which unfortunately doesn't tell us how many just in 1972.

He scored 0 penalties in the Euro Cup.

Gondov was curious about assists so....

Gerd Muller had 14 assists in the Bundesliga in 71/72

So he did take penalties and had many assists.....interesting

Apparently he was a heskey-drogba kind of player.

Credit to him though, however Messi will probably go down in history as the superior player.

gondov wrote:So he did take penalties and had many assists.....interesting

Not nearly as many penalties as Messi.

nandrolona wrote:

gondov wrote:So he did take penalties and had many assists.....interesting

Not nearly as many penalties as Messi.

So in your opinion, Messi is still an inferior player to Muller?

Gerd Mueller never get the credit he deserves because he wasn't a flashy player.

It'd be interesting to see the goal break downs of both seasons, but ultimately it doesn't matter. The record was not for goals per game scored, or goals against top opposition (which Messi routine gets as CL top scorer 3 years in a row), but for most goals in a calendar year. Let's just celebrate the fact that in this day and age it's still possible for a footballer to break a nearly 40 year old record - something none of us could have hoped for even 2 years ago.

nandrolona wrote:Gerd Mueller never get the credit he deserves because he wasn't a flashy player.

So in your opinion, Messi is still an inferior player to Muller?

gondov wrote:

nandrolona wrote:

gondov wrote:So he did take penalties and had many assists.....interesting

Not nearly as many penalties as Messi.

So in your opinion, Messi is still an inferior player to Muller?

I never said that. You're just insecure about something. That's why you started bringing assists etc. into the conversation.

nandrolona wrote:

gondov wrote:

nandrolona wrote:

Not nearly as many penalties as Messi.

So in your opinion, Messi is still an inferior player to Muller?

I never said that. You're just insecure about something. That's why you started bringing assists etc. into the conversation.

I never claimed you did, LOL.

Its a simple question..do you or do you not ? Thats why I repeated the question.

I never saw Muller play, and I just wanted to hear from the perspective of someone who has either watched him play or seems to know a lot about him

His stats prove he was a class act and scored in very big games. Thats a good thing, for Messi, at least. He is not just breaking some ordinary Joe's record