Re: #8 - Javi Martínez

by EL Patron Tue May 28, 2013 4:43 pm

Spain are too technical, need a bit of power and aggression in there

by sportsczy Tue May 28, 2013 4:44 pm

Ramos and Arbeloa say hello. Alonso is not soft either lol.

by jibers Tue May 28, 2013 4:49 pm

Agreed sports. He is more like makelele than busquets tbh. Great ball winer, pep sees him as a cb lol

by Zealous Tue May 28, 2013 4:51 pm

EL Patron wrote:Spain are too technical, need a bit of power and aggression in there

You mean like grit? ......... and steel? hmm

by Zealous Tue May 28, 2013 4:52 pm

jibers wrote:Agreed sports. He is more like makelele than busquets tbh. Great ball winer, pep sees him as a cb lol

Pep probably sees all DMs as CBs lol

by jibers Tue May 28, 2013 4:52 pm

Martinez will never be a starter for Spain.

by jibers Tue May 28, 2013 4:53 pm

Zealous wrote:
jibers wrote:Agreed sports. He is more like makelele than busquets tbh. Great ball winer, pep sees him as a cb lol

Pep probably sees all DMs as a CB lol

Lol true, but Martinez is like a big Mascherano

by FennecFox7 Tue May 28, 2013 4:54 pm

Javi might not be very technical, but he's a fantastic ball winner and a dominant aerial presence. He would be a good match up with busquets, as both compliment each other

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue May 28, 2013 4:55 pm

jibers wrote:Martinez will never be a starter for Spain.

Disagree if they persist with the pivot the Martinez-Busquets would be great once Alonso is gone.

by Mr Nick09 Tue May 28, 2013 5:03 pm

look, mcgrady is in nba finals so today is a bad day to use the word "never"

Me'Mack Proud

by Sushi Master Tue May 28, 2013 5:13 pm

Martinez as a CB?

Say goodbye to our midfield. Schweini can't and never has controlled a midfield by himself. From van Bommel, to Gustavo, to Martinez, to Khedira... he's always needed some good old fashioned grit 'n steel to help him out.

Arq's Basque talent scouting :bow:

. Was spot on.

by VivaStPauli Tue May 28, 2013 5:50 pm

I've said that selling MvB was a huge mistake at the time, and I have said they lack a MvB-type player repeatedly. I just thought that player would be Vidal.
I thought what they wanted to do with Martinez was the right move, but to be honest, I didn't believe that Martinez could really deliver.
And boy did he deliver. Brought exactly the right kind of grit 'n steel Bayern lacked, especially that hint of being a bit unfair und rough is what has been missing. Gets your midfield the respect it needs.

Massively good signing, fixed all of Bayerns problems. The missing link (tm).

by Sushi Master Tue May 28, 2013 5:57 pm

Vidal... I still wake up in the middle of the night creaming my pants to what a Schweini-Vidal midfield would have looked like.

Seriously, Vidal is a monster.

Not that I'm bitching about Javi... we got the next big thing.

What I love about these guys is that they are gritty bastards, but they also have decent technique so they're not at all useless kicking off attacks. Van Bommel Proud

by Mr Nick09 Tue May 28, 2013 6:06 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:I've said that selling MvB was a huge mistake at the time, and I have said they lack a MvB-type player repeatedly. I just thought that player would be Vidal.
I thought what they wanted to do with Martinez was the right move, but to be honest, I didn't believe that Martinez could really deliver.
And boy did he deliver. Brought exactly the right kind of grit 'n steel Bayern lacked, especially that hint of being a bit unfair und rough is what has been missing. Gets your midfield the respect it needs.

Massively good signing, fixed all of Bayerns problems. The missing link (tm).

Viva, is there some chatter in germany about Alaba going back to DM next season under Guardiola?

by VivaStPauli Tue May 28, 2013 6:12 pm

I haven't heard nothin'.
Would be utterly retarded anyway, since they won't find a LB replacement that's as good.

If they want more playmakin' at the pivot, they can always play Schweini-Kroos there, even though that's totally lopsided.

by Sushi Master Tue May 28, 2013 6:16 pm

Alaba's not switching... he's exactly the type of wingback Guardiola dreams of. Austrian Dani Alves.

Schweini-Kroos has already been tried and failed, though. There's a lack of a defensive player in there.

Now, switching to 4-3-3... Ribs and Müller on the wing. Götze as a false 9.

Martinez
Kroos Schweinsteiger
Müller ------ Ribéry
Götze

by VivaStPauli Tue May 28, 2013 6:19 pm

That's a pretty neat formation.
I would even like to see that. It might work. Piggy and Kroos are both good enough at going forward, and can both make the formation shift to a 4-2-3-1 since both of them are comfortable playing as the #10.

Would work.

I just suggested a 4-2-3-1 with a Kroos/Piggy pivot because it's the all-passing-no-defending option that might appeal to a guy like Pep.

by jibers Tue May 28, 2013 6:53 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:That's a pretty neat formation.
I would even like to see that. It might work. Piggy and Kroos are both good enough at going forward, and can both make the formation shift to a 4-2-3-1 since both of them are comfortable playing as the #10.

Would work.

I just suggested a 4-2-3-1 with a Kroos/Piggy pivot because it's the all-passing-no-defending option that might appeal to a guy like Pep.

by VivaStPauli Tue May 28, 2013 7:34 pm

Maybe I phrased that too weirdly, I'm a "bit" tired.

A Kroos/Piggy pivot would be incredible to keep possession, and start up a passing game, but Piggy without a ruffian partner is truly restricted, and would be forced to be the destroyer he really isn't. It might look great on paper, all that creativity, which might appeal to Pep, or rather, Peps disciple, as the man himself would probably be smarter than that, but Javi truly is the missing link, Bayern just function better if Piggy is paired with a destroyer, no matter how great it looks on paper, to cram one more master of passing into the XI.

by jibers Tue May 28, 2013 7:47 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:Maybe I phrased that too weirdly, I'm a "bit" tired.

A Kroos/Piggy pivot would be incredible to keep possession, and start up a passing game, but Piggy without a ruffian partner is truly restricted, and would be forced to be the destroyer he really isn't. It might look great on paper, all that creativity, which might appeal to Pep, or rather, Peps disciple, as the man himself would probably be smarter than that, but Javi truly is the missing link, Bayern just function better if Piggy is paired with a destroyer, no matter how great it looks on paper, to cram one more master of passing into the XI.

Why are you talking about Pep's disciple?

Pep likes plaers that are good at breaking up play, but are good at initiating attacks from the back, something Martinez is not really good at. So I am interetsed to see what he does with Javi.

by Arquitecto Tue May 28, 2013 9:37 pm

Javi Martinez little technique? LMFAO What? The first reason he was hyped was because of his technique, a defensive player with sound technique. Hence why Bielsa played him as a zentrora itzuli to utilize his work in tight spaces and excellent passing. Busquets is still the more established DM yet no evidence that Javi cannot surpass him given he finally has some spotlight on him now. Busquets is better handling a consistent marker of aggression while Javi's tight space work in multiple markers (who don't mark as closely as a single marker) has shown to be better, as has his ambidexterity, crossing and shooting.

I'm a little disappointed that it seems on DnMac and I have been the ones to watch him closely before the Bayern group as the Germans can attest to his technique and that he is far from just a defensive minded midfielder.

His problem is that he is slow and clumsy as times on the tackle yet hardly needs to since his lack of ground covered is made up by his intelligence. He also isn't as good in the air offensively as one might think, yet other than that there is a reason why Del Bosque names him as a "complete player"

And no one is to say he will never be a starter given his performances this year compared to Busquets. Despite what all the Barca happy triggers say, beyond Del Bosque this possession crap will not last longer. As evidenced just by Lopetegui implementing further Basque/Asturian influences based on his players. Needn't even speak of the future since Basques will dominate Espana. Moving on...

There is a reason why Osram bought him as the man before his Athletic stints was a huge student of Basque football and implemented it within his teams. Bayern play a modern German product of football yet Basque influences within are obvious for whoever has studied the style. Javi was as the Zentro Pieza within Bayern, a move he used in his Athletic club days.

by danyjr Tue May 28, 2013 10:06 pm

He's a typical Argentine player, even though he's not.

by McAgger Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:03 am

When's he back from injury?

by Hapless_Hans Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:38 am

not before February probably

by McAgger Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:42 am

Would he even get into the starting XI now that Pep has a hard on for fullbacks in midfield?

by Hapless_Hans Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:07 am

hard to say.

In any case, Pep was planning of playing him in the middle of a three man defense (as in the cup final), not in midfield. Martinez was supposed to be integral for this.
Here's how Javi is quoted in the 'Pep Confidential' book regarding this game/position

‘He’s designed my perfect position. Finally I’ve got the right position in the right system which allows me to give my very best,’ says Martínez.

Of course now Pep has adapted that formation to him being out and we added Benatia, and Alonso, due to that.
Safe to say that IF all our injured players were back at the same time, you couldn't really speak of a 'starting XI'.

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