Official Serie A Thread

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Post by Luca Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:43 pm

Surag wrote:
@Luca wrote: Pescara will definitely miss him, and he might raise questions of Juventus for not trusting him this season.

I dont know where the 'trust' factor came from ,but he is definitely not ready for Juventus ,not this year for sure.Even if ends up doing well for them its hardly a regrettable decision from the board.Its actually good for his progress that he is playing for Genoa right now,he is going to get a lot of playing time.

Also assuming that he does very well at Genoa this year,i'm not sure we can bring him here next season itself.I think this co-ownership deal probably lasts two years,i am not so sure but i read it somewhere.

Well, Juventus was looking to sign a very raw player like Destro and was beaten to the punch by Roma and didn't even make an attempt at Ciro.

If he scores 15-20 goals with Genoa this season (which might be a stretch) and Juventus is left with a strikeforce of players scoring 10 goals or so like last season then I don't see why you wouldn't say why not Ciro?

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Post by S Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:53 pm

'IF' is a very key word right there.To be honest i really dont think he would have gotten enough playing time around here which is why i back the board on this decision.He would have probably been 3rd or 4th choice striker which would hardly help his cause.

If he shines there ,i know we would have to pay a substantial price to get him back but at what cost ?the cost of developing him into a better player from Genoa.In odd cases ,in other leagues you would see youth players sent on 2 year loans(which would've been an ideal case scenario) like Bayern sent Kroos to Bayer04 a few years ago for example.But in Italy co-ownerships seems to be the prominent type of transfer involving young players as the small clubs in Italy arent that financially strong and it would help them in a way as well.All in all its a good decision from the board in my opinion and we would probably ending up saving a lot of cash ,instead of purchasing a big name forward into spending a much lesser but a decent amount to bring our own youth back.

Also if Destro would've been signed ,we would've bought another more experienced quality forward along with him and there's no guarantee that he would have been first choice.
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Post by zizzle Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:44 pm

Any updates on Juvi's attempts to bring in a quality striker ?
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Post by Luca Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:01 pm

Surag wrote:'IF' is a very key word right there.To be honest i really dont think he would have gotten enough playing time around here which is why i back the board on this decision.He would have probably been 3rd or 4th choice striker which would hardly help his cause.

If he shines there ,i know we would have to pay a substantial price to get him back but at what cost ?the cost of developing him into a better player from Genoa.In odd cases ,in other leagues you would see youth players sent on 2 year loans(which would've been an ideal case scenario) like Bayern sent Kroos to Bayer04 a few years ago for example.But in Italy co-ownerships seems to be the prominent type of transfer involving young players as the small clubs in Italy arent that financially strong and it would help them in a way as well.All in all its a good decision from the board in my opinion and we would probably ending up saving a lot of cash ,instead of purchasing a big name forward into spending a much lesser but a decent amount to bring our own youth back.

Also if Destro would've been signed ,we would've bought another more experienced quality forward along with him and there's no guarantee that he would have been first choice.

My whole post was predicated on 'IF'....

'he might raise questions of Juventus for not trusting him this season.'

He might, as in may. If he has a stellar season, like he did last season with a high flying Pescara side then I would say that my claim is well founded.

Your argument about Destro isn't well founded however. You're also relying on 'IF' Destro would have been signed. Juventus have had enough problems signing one striker, now you're saying they would have signed Destro AND another striker in the same window? That's a tall order. I know the team needs it but it would also mean one of Matri/Quagliarella (if not both) definitely leaving.

I agree with you though Surag, it wasn't Ciro's time, but if he has another fantastic season, which I hope he does, then we might see calls for him

@zizzle wrote:Any updates on Juvi's attempts to bring in a quality striker ?
[quote="zizzle"]

Nothing of substance. I have a feeling that the situation will stay the same until January and then Juventus will scramble to sign any half decent striker, just a feeling.

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Post by S Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:17 pm

Luca you say questions will be raised if Immobile has a great season at Genoa and i highly disagree with that.For what ?The playing time he's going to get at Juventus is nowhere near what he's going to get at Genoa.In my opinion in terms of experience atleast he's no better than Matri or Quagliarella let alone quality so i would assume he would be down the pecking order and this market was more about raising the 'quality' of the attack which we have with Giovinco addition and i'm certain we'll sign one more quality striker..Given a choice i'm sure you would rather have a quality strikeforce going into the CL season after 2 years than with a young unproven Immobile for example.

That being said i'm sure he'll develop into a better player at Genoa and i'm sure whatever price we pay to bring him back it would be worth it if we decide to that is.
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Post by Luca Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:22 pm

Surag wrote:Luca you say questions will be raised if Immobile has a great season at Genoa and i highly disagree with that.For what ?The playing time he's going to get at Juventus is nowhere near what he's going to get at Genoa.In my opinion in terms of experience atleast he's no better than Matri or Quagliarella let alone quality so i would assume he would be down the pecking order and this market was more about raising the 'quality' of the attack which we have with Giovinco addition and i'm certain we'll sign one more quality striker..Given a choice i'm sure you would rather have a quality strikeforce going into the CL season after 2 years than with a young unproven Immobile for example.

That being said i'm sure he'll develop into a better player at Genoa and i'm sure whatever price we pay to bring him back it would be worth it if we decide to that is.

It's a pretty simple idea
-If Immobile scores 20 goals lets say, after scoring I believe 28 last season for Pescara
-And Juventus have Matri and Quagliarella scoring a similar amount as last season then of course it will raise questions...

Even if he was third choice behind Vucinic and Giovinco, Juventus has so many games this season. I fail to see how he wouldn't have gotten minutes.

And like I said, I agree it wasn't the right time for him to come to Juventus, but that doesn't mean he can't have a spectacular season with Genoa and leave us questioning that thought as well

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Post by S Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:40 pm

I have a question to all Inter fans btw.

I thought you were in similar situation to Milan in terms of your finances.Where did all the cash influx come from for your transfers ?I mean you've spent a fair bit on the market almost close to €50m.Thats a lot of money considering Inter's precarious financial situation.
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Post by zizzle Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:16 pm

There was never a problem with lack of finances. Both Milan and Inter has been making losses since god knows when but these losses were always covered by our presidents. Milan's recent problems came from that fact that berlusconi (who's italy's priminister) is unwilling to spend on a football club while italy faces a financial crises. Moratti on the other hand is still willing to spend but ever since the FFP rule he decided to take things slowly so we wont find ourselves in a bad position later. Of course his lack of investement lead to us losing CL finances so he had to invest again.

That said Inter did release some of their older players saving a few millions in salaries, plus the money we made from selling eto'o wasnt reinvested untill now. We also sold Mota to PSG for 12m, got 7m for Pazzini, 6m from Casta, and 7.5m from the sale of pandev. We did spend 20m net (figure raising to 35 with bonuses and buy clauses) but we should recoup with the CL money next year.
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Post by Forza Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:58 am

@zizzle wrote:There was never a problem with lack of finances. Both Milan and Inter has been making losses since god knows when but these losses were always covered by our presidents. Milan's recent problems came from that fact that berlusconi (who's italy's priminister) is unwilling to spend on a football club while italy faces a financial crises. Moratti on the other hand is still willing to spend but ever since the FFP rule he decided to take things slowly so we wont find ourselves in a bad position later. Of course his lack of investement lead to us losing CL finances so he had to invest again.

That said Inter did release some of their older players saving a few millions in salaries, plus the money we made from selling eto'o wasnt reinvested untill now. We also sold Mota to PSG for 12m, got 7m for Pazzini, 6m from Casta, and 7.5m from the sale of pandev. We did spend 20m net (figure raising to 35 with bonuses and buy clauses) but we should recoup with the CL money next year.
1. He hasn't been in power for months.

2. We have saved 85mil in salaries and have received around 60mil in transfer fees.

Inter are spending far more than Milan and I have no idea how when they are in huge debt.
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Post by zizzle Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:50 pm

1. He still has political ambition. being in position or not is pointless.

2. President money, as made clear in my post.
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Post by Forza Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:41 am

@zizzle wrote:1. He still has political ambition. being in position or not is pointless.

2. President money, as made clear in my post.
This explains why Milan do not have money, but not why Inter does. I remember reading a bleacher report and Inter's finances were really bad.

http://swissramble.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Inter
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Post by zizzle Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:42 pm

thanks for the link, they're basically saying we're broke but then again its from last season
this post my vibe might also explain our spending this summer

@Vibe wrote:Moratti the financial wizard :bow:

Players in:

Pereira - 13 mill
Handanovic - 11 mill + 50% of Faraoni
Guarin - 11 mill
Palacio - 10 mill
Silvestre - 2 mill
Gargano - 1.25 mill
Mudingayi - 0.75 mill
Cassano - 0

Wages in:

Cassano - 3 mill
Pereira - 2.5 mill
Palacio - 2.5 mill
Handanovic - 2.5 mill
Guarin - 2 mill
Silvestre - 2 mill
Gargano - 2 mill
Mudingayi - 1 mill

Overall: 67 million

Players out:

Pandev - 7.5 mill
Pazzini - 7 mill
Castaignos - 6 mill
Maicon - 6 mill
Kucka - 5 mill
Viviano - 4 mill

Wages out:

Julio Cesar - 4.5 mill
Maicon - 4 mill
Lucio - 3.5 mill
Forlan - 3 mill
Cordoba - 3 mill
Zarate - 2.5 mill
Pazzini - 2.5 mill
Pandev - 2 mill
Muntari - 2 mill
Palombo - 2 mill
Poli - 1 mill

Wages reduced

Samuel - 3 mill now 2 mill
Chivu - 3.5 mill now 2.5 mill

Overall 67 million

We strengthened and revitalized our squad youthfully without spending a dime Laughing WTF Laughing
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Post by Cotes Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:42 pm

Inter In Search Of Milito's Cover....
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Post by Cotes Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:44 pm

Bendtner To Juve? Del Piero or Borriello Return???

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Post by Cotes Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:40 am

Nickolas Bendtner to Juve Official!

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Post by Cotes Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:42 am

Napoli Active In The Market

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Post by Cotes Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:44 am

Milan Adding Youngsters

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Post by Cotes Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:52 am

Nigal De Jong Complete Move To San Siro


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Post by Forza Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:19 am

I definitely did not expect pazzini to score today, let alone a hattrick.
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Post by Luca Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:24 am

What do you guys think:
Is this a penalty?



Personally, I think they were pulling at each other- but it was initiated by the Bologna player. However, Pazzini's over the moon reaction is what kills it for me.

I'm hoping we can discuss this maturely, as this is the place for that, which is why I did not post this in the general section or anything like that instead.

Apart from that, Pazzini showed exactly what Milan needed I think. They lost such a presence with Ibra, and it's a presence you cannot replace, but you can adapt and play differently. Pazzini is a fighter, he scored three goals today and look at them. First one, great run, won the penalty and finished it. Second, opportunistic strike, but fortunate. Third goal, genius flick. Three goals from nothing pretty much. From a Milan's fan point of view, I would be happy with what I'm seeing from him.

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Post by Forza Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:44 am

@Luca wrote:What do you guys think:
Is this a penalty?



Personally, I think they were pulling at each other- but it was initiated by the Bologna player. However, Pazzini's over the moon reaction is what kills it for me.

I'm hoping we can discuss this maturely, as this is the place for that, which is why I did not post this in the general section or anything like that instead.

Apart from that, Pazzini showed exactly what Milan needed I think. They lost such a presence with Ibra, and it's a presence you cannot replace, but you can adapt and play differently. Pazzini is a fighter, he scored three goals today and look at them. First one, great run, won the penalty and finished it. Second, opportunistic strike, but fortunate. Third goal, genius flick. Three goals from nothing pretty much. From a Milan's fan point of view, I would be happy with what I'm seeing from him.
It was a penalty... and it was a dive too. But the illegal action came before the dive and it's a real pity that the ref didn't just call the penalty before Pazzini went to ground.
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Post by dostoevsky Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:20 pm

I agree with Forza in that I considered it a penalty, however Pazzini also clearly dives. It's difficult to have sympathy for either player, as simulation in the box is always distasteful to see, however there is clearly an illegal impedement that deserves to be punished. Pazzini went to ground in order to win what should have been called as a penalty had he managed to stay on his feet, however it is an issue that this sort of behaviour is necessary in order to garner what might be seen as the 'fair' result of this situation.

It's also a problem to be solved and it's one that requires stricter attention to the rules. When Nesta conceded a penalty last year to Barcelona which killed our challenge in the quarterfinals it was for shirt pulling, something that we rarely see punished in Europe or Serie A, however also something that is impossible to justify when a decision is made to award a penalty. Different scenarios, one from open play and one at a set-piece, however the principle is the same in that we should not treat incidents inside the box differently than we would outside the area. Had this shirt pulling gone on outside the box the play would have been immediately halted. If we let this continue in the league, we train our defenders to play the same way in Europe and it can cost Serie A during pivotal moments.

It's also a difficult thing for the coach, one doesn't want to chastise a striker who deserved a penalty and did what was necessary for the team, however it's also not something you want to encourage. Asking for discernment in knowing when to go down is hardly a better proposition, however it's the somewhat sad, pragmatic nature of football.

Thanks for bringing this up here by the way Luca, it's an interesting issue that deserves sincere discussion.
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Post by Luca Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:11 pm

Good points, there was definitely illegal action initiated by the Bologna player. It's just the dive that makes it over the top, I wonder if without the dive, would it have been called though? Which almost makes the dive a necessary component for such a call, in this case.

So, I'll try and recap this weekend's games as quickly as I can.

Torino ran rampant against a 10 man Pescara, who suffered a second 3-0 scoreline in two games. It's not looking good for them early.

Milan winning 3-1 over Bologna, away. A tough game in my books, it was the Pazzini show. He stepped up.

Juventus, amid more controversy, batter Udinese 4-1. A pleasing note is that Giovinco had a brace, and Vucinic scored as well- the strikers are actually scoring, it's almost unheard of lately for Juventus.*

Cagliari missed two penalties in the first 30 minutes against Atalanta. They then played against 10 men for the majority of the game and managed a 1-1 draw.

I was unable to watch Catania-Genoa, but it was back and forth and Catania won 3-2, great start from them after drawing Roma in their first game.

Lazio dispatched of Palermo 3-0. Thanks to a brace from Klose and a wonder strike from Antonio Candreva.**

Napoli won 2-1 over Fiorentina. Another game I would have liked to watch. Jovetic added another goal late, after Napoli was leading for 2-0.

Parma won 2-0, a nice goal was scored by Aleandro Rosi (Roma fans know him).

Sampdoria won 2-1 over Siena, Maxi Lopez was on the score sheet.

Onto the game of the round, Inter and Roma. Fantastic match. Deserved victory from Roma in every way, they played a very explosive style. I think Inter could have done better to expose them on a few occasions when the break was on, but it wasn't their night. Totti was incredible. Roma certainly looks to be the real deal, the main question is (which many had for Juventus last season) is can they keep this pace? Do they have the depth to play this style each game? We'll see, I hope they can keep it, because they'll be fun to watch.

*Is this a penalty and a red card?



I've posted my thoughts on this in the Juventus section, but I'll share them here as well.
I think it is a penalty the moment Giovinco lifts the ball past the advancing goalkeeper.
I think a red card is incredibly harsh though, but I can see the reasons why it could be given (not that I'm agreeing with the decision).
-Last man, is arguable
-Dangerous contact with the head, again arguable
-Clear goal scoring opportunity

Again though, I don't think it should have been a red card.

**Candreva's goal against Palermo
1:00 mark of this video


Reminds me a little of, just because of the range:

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Post by Juveman17 Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:29 pm

The thing is, why did he dive when he clearly got past the Bologna defender even if he was fouled? He clearly got past him but the purposeful dive at the end really pisses me off.
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Post by Guest Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:52 pm

@juveman17 wrote:The thing is, why did he dive when he clearly got past the Bologna defender even if he was fouled? He clearly got past him but the purposeful dive at the end really pisses me off.

It is rare to see such players who'd just go on after being kicked nowadays. All players, heck even the best do it nowadays.

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Post by Cotes Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:28 am

Serie A Week 2 Highlights

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