barca midfield (Xaviesta+Busquets) vs. (Alonso+Gerrard+Kaka)

I'm very delighted and very glad that my thread has initiated such thoughtful and informative debate!

Very good points from all.

^ nice butt

alexjanosik wrote:

So esentially you are agreeing.Iknow Maradona played some games in midfield towards the end of his career.But he played the majority of his games as a 10.As a 10 you simply dont have the amount of passes that Xavi would have.
So who would pick in your CM?
A 10(arguably the greatest 10 ever) who played his entire career as a 10 and averaged around 30-40 passes per game.
Or the undisputed possession king in history,the man who averages 100 passes a game week in week out.The undisputed master of tempo control.

Basically you ask if you want a midfielder that keeps the ball well playing conservitively or a midfieder who can destroy the opponents as well as keep the ball well but plays it more risky. This is question of tactics, i have previously written my hypothetical midfield would be more direct, naturally you would therefore expect more turnovers and xavi's midfield to retain the ball more. However i would still expect the midfield i wrote to outpass xavi's midfield in the sense that their passing would be more penetrating and dangerous, i dont think barcas pressing would be able to stop it. My midfield also has the bonus of having a player capable of dribbling past 4 or more players when its needed and also has far better shooting ability. It also has the prospect of maradona and messi running at the defense.

alexjanosik wrote:

Also I never said Maradona had no workrate.i said he didnt have the workrate of the Barca trio which is true.Xavi runs the most in the Barca team almost every single game.And this in a team where everyone(barring Messi) works ridiculously hard.Based on the games I have seen I very much doubt Maradona was the hardest working player on the team.
And I never said Maradona didnt have tactical discipline,positioning and awareness.
I said that in comparison to xavi.Do you seriously think Maradona would have the tactical discipline,positioning and awareness of Xavi in midfield.
I dont think so.Not even close. .

Presuming he was in the right condition, i dont think maradona would work less than xavi. I recall times when he repeatedly tracked back wiith an opponent. But this is not going to be proved one way or another, neither of us have evidence to measure his workrate, they didnt record stuff like the distance a player ran back then i dont think.
Remember apart from midfield im using the same team which has the same workrate.
Does xavi have better positioning and awareness? maradona was excellent at seeing weaknesses in his opponents and seeing the whole field. I would say his positioning in forward areas was as good or better than xavis positioning in deeper areas, and his positioning in deeper areas was better than xavis positioning in forward areas. Even though xavi knows centre midfield more well, i dont doubt maradona would be able to compete with him and outskill him.

alexjanosik wrote:

You are going all by hypotheticals.If Maradona had the system,if Maradona played in CM,if Maradona had the workrate,if maradona had the tactical awareness and positioning etc.
I am going all by facts.And the facts say that Maradona would get comfortably outplayed by Xavi in CM. .

There is no "if" about some of those. But some of those are indeed hypotheticals, but the whole concept of this thread is hypothetical. We are talking about a midfield that never existed, with players that played in different conditions, how can you predict who would win and how they would play without being hypothetical to some extent? you are using facts (in some instances at least), but there is a pretty big leap between the facts you listed and the conlusion you reached

alexjanosik wrote:

Regarding Beckenbauer,I never said he was an attacking defender who never held position.
You claimed that the Kaiser was positionally better than Busquets.I refuted that by saying that the kaiser was an attacking sweeper so by definition Busquets is positionally superior.

Okay, i considered beckenbauer to better positionally in defensive areas. If what you are saying is that busquets positions better in midfield, as he plays his whole career there i wont refute it on the basis beckenbauer often had a deeper starting position. I would include him in midfield for his 1 on 1 ability and his ability to carry and pass the ball.

alexjanosik wrote:

Its like saying Dani Alves is positionally great.By nature he is an attacking wingback so he is not positionally perfect.Sure in the odd games he would hold position but it goes against his nature.Same with the Kaiser.I have seen the 74 WC final.Impressive but one off games prove nothing.He was an attacking sweeper and Busquets has the edge in positioning.

A one off game that was the most important game in the world and against one of the best attacking teams of all time proves nothing? i would disagree, bossing in 50 games against scrubs proves much less, for example

alexjanosik wrote:

Again you are dealing in hypotheticals.If Beckenbauer was in a team that pressed!!
Fact is he was not

Right from the start, i said to make a fair comparison we have to put the players in the same conditions, and this is indeed, a FACT. Dont you agree?

alexjanosik wrote:
They would get outpassed and outplayed comfortably.

hypothetically speaking

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:

ynwa wrote:Alonso Gerrard and Mascherano. Those were the days.

Do not remind me of those times or I will mention you by name in my suicide note.

If I remember right, we did not lose a game with that trio starting in over 3 seasons.