Re: Iniesta: Messi deserves the Ballon D'Or

by harhar11 Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:32 pm

buddytaller wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
buddytaller wrote:Messi was so good that even with the GOAT Barcelona team, he only managed to trail Real Madrid by 9 points.

He was so good that in 120 minutes against Chelsea, he lost the ball that led to Chelsea's first goal in the first leg, missed a penalty that would have killed of Chelsea, and scored a massive 0 goals in the two legs.

yeah, it was Messis fault that Villa, Pedro, Sanchez, Xavi,Puyol and Iniesta missed alot of games last season because injury. It was Messi's fault that when HE put goals on a plate for his teammates just for them to miss in crucial games(like for Xavi against Real Madrid or Villa against Valencia).

Football is a 11 men game. There is only so much that a single player can do for his team single handedly. And if it wasnt for Messi, we wouldnt even be on Europa league IIRC..

Messi missed just as many chances as his teammates dude, give credit where it's due last season Ronaldo and Madrid were superior to Barcelona and Messi.

Against Chelsea in the 2nd leg Messi did miss alot of chances, but he did create a goal. But against Real Madrid? No way.. And apart from Sevilla and Chelsea, Messi didnt miss that many decisive misses that made us lose points..

by Harmonica Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:33 pm

buddytaller wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
buddytaller wrote:Messi was so good that even with the GOAT Barcelona team, he only managed to trail Real Madrid by 9 points.

He was so good that in 120 minutes against Chelsea, he lost the ball that led to Chelsea's first goal in the first leg, missed a penalty that would have killed of Chelsea, and scored a massive 0 goals in the two legs.

yeah, it was Messis fault that Villa, Pedro, Sanchez, Xavi,Puyol and Iniesta missed alot of games last season because injury. It was Messi's fault that when HE put goals on a plate for his teammates just for them to miss in crucial games(like for Xavi against Real Madrid or Villa against Valencia).

Football is a 11 men game. There is only so much that a single player can do for his team single handedly. And if it wasnt for Messi, we wouldnt even be on Europa league IIRC..

Messi missed just as many chances as his teammates dude, give credit where it's due last season Ronaldo and Madrid were superior to Barcelona and Messi.

RMA were, with the help of refs. Messi was clearly better than Cronaldo though.

by buddytaller Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:39 pm

Xavi made 51 appearances last season, one more than he did the previous season, Iniesta made 47 appearances last season only three less than he had done the previous season, where is the so called WORST injury crisis ever, Real had a lot of injuries themselves, Di Maria was out for a lot of the season due to hamstring problems.

by Real Kandahar Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:02 pm

jiopsi wrote:
buddytaller wrote:Messi was so good that even with the GOAT Barcelona team, he only managed to trail Real Madrid by 9 points.

He was so good that in 120 minutes against Chelsea, he lost the ball that led to Chelsea's first goal in the first leg, missed a penalty that would have killed of Chelsea, and scored a massive 0 goals in the two legs.
You must be new here?

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 5.5 shots/ goal
Cronaldo 6.9 shots/ goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists:

Messi 20
Cronaldo 12

Creativity:

Messi 56 throughballs, 92 key passes (resulting in a shot)
Cronaldo 19 throughballs, 60 key passes (resulting in a shot)

Build up play:

Messi 176 dribbless
Cronaldo 73 dribbless

Lost posession:

Messi 96 dispossessed + 61 turnovers = 157 times
Cronaldo 79 dispossessed + 86 turnovers = 165 times

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 24
Cronaldo 15

Importance of stats:

Here is La Liga 11-12 without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals, and assists:

Messi got points for the team in 15 games, 35 overall.
Cronaldo got points for the team in 11 games, 25 overall.

I think that is self explanatory, Messi was best pretty much in everything. Same pretty much applies to CL.

Have fun.

hey um, did he score against real madrid in april in title decider? um.. oh hey did he score against chelsea?... oh maybe the penalty awarded against chealsea? ohhhh ok ok i get u now, u mean he scored against kid teams like Neverkusen and Rayo :coffee:

by Real Kandahar Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:04 pm

jiopsi wrote:
buddytaller wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
buddytaller wrote:Messi was so good that even with the GOAT Barcelona team, he only managed to trail Real Madrid by 9 points.

He was so good that in 120 minutes against Chelsea, he lost the ball that led to Chelsea's first goal in the first leg, missed a penalty that would have killed of Chelsea, and scored a massive 0 goals in the two legs.

yeah, it was Messis fault that Villa, Pedro, Sanchez, Xavi,Puyol and Iniesta missed alot of games last season because injury. It was Messi's fault that when HE put goals on a plate for his teammates just for them to miss in crucial games(like for Xavi against Real Madrid or Villa against Valencia).

Football is a 11 men game. There is only so much that a single player can do for his team single handedly. And if it wasnt for Messi, we wouldnt even be on Europa league IIRC..

Messi missed just as many chances as his teammates dude, give credit where it's due last season Ronaldo and Madrid were superior to Barcelona and Messi.
RMA were, with the help of refs. Messi was clearly better than Cronaldo though.

cry me a river princess boo hoo

by Harmonica Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:15 pm

Real Kandahar wrote:
jiopsi wrote:
buddytaller wrote:Messi was so good that even with the GOAT Barcelona team, he only managed to trail Real Madrid by 9 points.

He was so good that in 120 minutes against Chelsea, he lost the ball that led to Chelsea's first goal in the first leg, missed a penalty that would have killed of Chelsea, and scored a massive 0 goals in the two legs.
You must be new here?

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 5.5 shots/ goal
Cronaldo 6.9 shots/ goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists:

Messi 20
Cronaldo 12

Creativity:

Messi 56 throughballs, 92 key passes (resulting in a shot)
Cronaldo 19 throughballs, 60 key passes (resulting in a shot)

Build up play:

Messi 176 dribbless
Cronaldo 73 dribbless

Lost posession:

Messi 96 dispossessed + 61 turnovers = 157 times
Cronaldo 79 dispossessed + 86 turnovers = 165 times

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 24
Cronaldo 15

Importance of stats:

Here is La Liga 11-12 without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals, and assists:

Messi got points for the team in 15 games, 35 overall.
Cronaldo got points for the team in 11 games, 25 overall.

I think that is self explanatory, Messi was best pretty much in everything. Same pretty much applies to CL.

Have fun.

hey um, did he score against real madrid in april in title decider? um.. oh hey did he score against chelsea?... oh maybe the penalty awarded against chealsea? ohhhh ok ok i get u now, u mean he scored against kid teams like Neverkusen and Rayo

Both were involved in one goal in that match:

Iniesta: Messi deserves the Ballon D'Or - Page 2 Di-P7UH

But I didn't see Cronaldo creating any 1on1 situations for his teammates:

Iniesta: Messi deserves the Ballon D'Or - Page 2 Di-WAWF

What I did see, was Özil creating 1on1 for Cronaldo though.

Now please tell me those arguments were not your only ones for Cronaldo? Laughing

by buddytaller Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:26 pm

What is one on one? The dude silenced the Camp Nou on two occassions, one in the Copa del Rey second leg, when the Camp Nou was raining insults on Pepe till, Madrid led by Ronaldo pulled 2 goals back and had Barcelona resorting to time wasting tactics to avoid getting knocked out, he did it again in the last el clasico of the season Laughing

by Harmonica Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:40 pm

by gondov Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:22 am

Not this again. Frankly, cr7 lost the race at the euros, the liga by itself isnt enough to win cr7 the balon dor. even his perfomance in the last clasico is not enough!!

Messi terrorised madrid TWICE in the supercopa, TWICE in the copa del rey, ONCE in the league. madristas will try and make out as if these cups are not important but when it comes to barca vs real, nothing is insignificant. madrid still played with the same hunger as in that league clasico. cr7 did outshine messi in that ONE clasico.

the score last season is therefore - Messi 5 - cr7 1

Now when it comes to the 'WOW' factor Messi was and is clearly superior. messi has much more to offer than scoring goals. Even in his so called ''flop'' games, he still offers much more to the team than cr7, he is a creator . Fans are sill very entertained when messi doesnt get on the score sheet. (cr7 got booed by his fans and then started scoring vs barca)

The only chance voters would have been persuaded otherwise , was if cr7 won the Euros, or at least put on a magical perfomance. he failed to do that and to me ballotelli perfomed better than/= cr7, (balo also won the PL, remember)

and plz dont use that ''messi won more titles than cr7 last yr, and thats why he won balo dor, so this yr cr7 deserves it cz of laliga'' - messi still had a better individual perfomance excluding the trophies and did not just win ONE trophy, he had the CL too!!!

by gondov Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:40 am

buddytaller wrote:What is one on one? The dude silenced the Camp Nou on two occassions, one in the Copa del Rey second leg, when the Camp Nou was raining insults on Pepe till, Madrid led by Ronaldo pulled 2 goals back and had Barcelona resorting to time wasting tactics to avoid getting knocked out, he did it again in the last el clasico of the season

CR7 did not silence the camp nou, he scored to make it 2-1. Its more like benzema who caused discomfort to the cules as he scored to make it 2-2. and CR7 wasnt leading this comeback, stop exegerrating !!

cr7 only outshined messi ONCE out of SIX direct meetings with Messi last season. cr7 scored the winner, messi created the equaliser!!!!

by buddytaller Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:42 am

It's funny how Barcelona fans rate Messi season, as good as he is, he was partly the reason why Barcelona had a relatively mediocre season, he wanted everything to go through him, but choked when his team needed him the most. (ie. Chelsea in CL semis, many away games in la liga, and the all important second la liga clasico)

Ronaldo has shown more consistent form this season, he's the first person to have scored against every opposition in la liga, he didn't just score his goals at home, he scored almost the same amount away as he did at home.

The fact is that Ronaldo was the main reason why Real Madrid was better than Barcelona last season, he's the main reason why Portugal a team that almost failed to qualify for the Euros made it to the semi finals and were only eliminated by Spain (a team some consider to be the GOAT) on penalty shootouts.

For these reasons alone, Ronaldo deserves the Ballon D'Or.

by buddytaller Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:47 am

gondov wrote:
buddytaller wrote:What is one on one? The dude silenced the Camp Nou on two occassions, one in the Copa del Rey second leg, when the Camp Nou was raining insults on Pepe till, Madrid led by Ronaldo pulled 2 goals back and had Barcelona resorting to time wasting tactics to avoid getting knocked out, he did it again in the last el clasico of the season

CR7 did not silence the camp nou, he scored to make it 2-1. Its more like benzema who caused discomfort to the cules as he scored to make it 2-2. and CR7 wasnt leading this comeback, stop exegerrating !!

cr7 only outshined messi ONCE out of SIX direct meetings with Messi last season. cr7 scored the winner, messi created the equaliser!!!!

The Camp Nou went quite after Ronaldo scored, from then on it was all Madrid, the scoreline was not a fair reflection of the match, Ronaldo and Ozil had a wonderful game, the two were the main ochestrators of Madrid's comeback.

by jontsu Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:54 am

In my opinion
1.Messi
2.Iniesta
3.Ozil
4.Pirlo
5.Ronaldo

But it will be
1.Messi
2.Ronaldo
3.Iniesta.

by buddytaller Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:58 am

My opinion it should be
1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Pirlo
4. Iniesta
5. Casillas

But it would be
1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Iniesta

by gondov Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:12 am

buddytaller wrote:
gondov wrote:
buddytaller wrote:What is one on one? The dude silenced the Camp Nou on two occassions, one in the Copa del Rey second leg, when the Camp Nou was raining insults on Pepe till, Madrid led by Ronaldo pulled 2 goals back and had Barcelona resorting to time wasting tactics to avoid getting knocked out, he did it again in the last el clasico of the season

CR7 did not silence the camp nou, he scored to make it 2-1. Its more like benzema who caused discomfort to the cules as he scored to make it 2-2. and CR7 wasnt leading this comeback, stop exegerrating !!

cr7 only outshined messi ONCE out of SIX direct meetings with Messi last season. cr7 scored the winner, messi created the equaliser!!!!

The Camp Nou went quite after Ronaldo scored, from then on it was all Madrid, the scoreline was not a fair reflection of the match, Ronaldo and Ozil had a wonderful game, the two were the main ochestrators of Madrid's comeback.

There u go again exegerrating. The camp nou still continued to cheer their team on after that cr7 goal, benzema's is the one that put cules at unease, making it 2-2. And it wasnt one way trafic after the cr7 goal, Barca had good chances to win it from 2-2. messi had a run and shot that missed the post by inches ,pedro had a diving header that went straight to the goalie.

And the comeback was more like, oezil, benzema and cr7. not forgetin pique's mistaken clearence leading to benzema goal

by buddytaller Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:23 am

Well the decibel level and the hate chant against Pepe was way lower than at the start of the match. The fact remains though, that Madrid created a host of chances, and outplayed Barcelona for most of that match. But rather ironically Barcelona jumped to a 2-0 lead, justice was served and Madrid at least pulled 2 goals back, and would have won the tie, if Ramos' goal had stood.

Another fact is that Ronaldo has 5 goals in his last 6 clasico's, Messi has 0 in his last four.

by FennecFox7 Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:46 am

ballon d'or
1.messi
2.ronaldo
3.iniesta
4.pirlo

by gondov Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:01 am

buddytaller wrote:Well the decibel level and the hate chant against Pepe was way lower than at the start of the match. The fact remains though, that Madrid created a host of chances, and outplayed Barcelona for most of that match. But rather ironically Barcelona jumped to a 2-0 lead, justice was served and Madrid at least pulled 2 goals back, and would have won the tie, if Ramos' goal had stood.

Another fact is that Ronaldo has 5 goals in his last 6 clasico's, Messi has 0 in his last four.

Fact is barca have won 3 and drawn 2, out of the 6 last clasicos, because of messi. madrid have only won ONCE!!!!

by buddytaller Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:26 am

Fact is that in the end Madrid won the trophy that counted the most and Barcelona were outplayed in 4 of those 6 (ie, Both legs of the Super cup, the CDR second leg, and the last liga clasico), but ended up snatching a draw or victory from the jaws of defeat.

by kiranr Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:32 am

Don't you guys get tired of posting the same old drivel in every Balon D'or thread?

It is tiresome and frankly, it is embarrassing looking at you guys fighting over a couple of men.

by buddytaller Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:48 am

Very tiresome I agree, I don't really post often, just bumped into this, this is the second Ballon D'Or thread I've commented in, and there must be a lot of them.

The Ballon D'Or can't be awarded to Ronaldo soon enough, but you never know with these awards, anyway, I hope Ronaldo has a repeat of the season he had and Messi has a repeat of what he had, as a Madrid fan I'd be more than happy to see Real win the league for an unprecedented 33rd time, and hopefully add la decima to it.

by Dreamau Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:08 am

i go for Drogba just because i believe he deserves 1 ,

by jibers Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:27 am

I'm sorry but anyone that thinks Messi won't et the balon d'or is kidding themseleves. There is a point where statistics comes into play. The guy broke every goal scoring record in Europe. Players have had seasons similar to Ronaldo, N one has had a season like Messi did. Gerd Muller won the Balon d'or for scoring 66 goals and didn't even win any trophies.

Messi was still head and shoulders above Ronaldo. Anyone that watched them could tell. Barcelona struggled because all their wide players were injured. Why else would Shiteenca and the even worse and ovverated shitello get any minutes?

Messi is a level above everyother player. Why would Ronaldo win it above Balotelli? Above Ozil? above Pilro? Above RVP? hell even above Gomez? These delusions Ronaldo fans are having makes me lol. Messi raped MAdrid in two supercups, 1 league game, the first leg of the copa. That's 4 classicos. People saying Messi flopped against Chelsea? I suppose Ronaldo didn't flop by missing the all important penalty. That was the BIGGEST moment in the cl for Madrid that season. And as usual he flopped, just like he did in the cl final in 07 and 09, and pretty much every classico.

Ronaldo won't win jack squat, and it will be interesting to see the reaction of people on this forum when the inevitable happens.

by Albiceleste Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:04 am

jibers wrote:I'm sorry but anyone that thinks Messi won't et the balon d'or is kidding themseleves. There is a point where statistics comes into play. The guy broke every goal scoring record in Europe. Players have had seasons similar to Ronaldo, N one has had a season like Messi did. Gerd Muller won the Balon d'or for scoring 66 goals and didn't even win any trophies.

Messi was still head and shoulders above Ronaldo. Anyone that watched them could tell. Barcelona struggled because all their wide players were injured. Why else would Shiteenca and the even worse and ovverated shitello get any minutes?

Messi is a level above everyother player. Why would Ronaldo win it above Balotelli? Above Ozil? above Pilro? Above RVP? hell even above Gomez? These delusions Ronaldo fans are having makes me lol. Messi raped MAdrid in two supercups, 1 league game, the first leg of the copa. That's 4 classicos. People saying Messi flopped against Chelsea? I suppose Ronaldo didn't flop by missing the all important penalty. That was the BIGGEST moment in the cl for Madrid that season. And as usual he flopped, just like he did in the cl final in 07 and 09, and pretty much every classico.

Ronaldo won't win jack squat, and it will be interesting to see the reaction of people on this forum when the inevitable happens.

by Donuts Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:07 am

Ronaldo fan boys only argument is the last match vs Barcelona, which is fair enough considering its the first one out 6 Barcelona and Madrid played that they actually won..
Please guys try to remember that the Ballon D'ore considers the whole year not just Ronaldo's only goal that had any value.

by larisano Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:30 am

Messi just won ESPY award for not Best Footballer of the year, but Best Sportsperson of the year.... The first of many more to come,me thinks...

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