Group C: Italy vs Croatia discussion

Balotelli’s neat turn and shot in the box had Stipe Pletikosa beaten but it was inches wide.

Claudio Marchisio drilled narrowly over from 15 yards.

Twice Cassano in front of goal

Claudio Marchisio double save by Croat GK

so leehuis and dante u guys think maybe italy should keep things at it is , tactics as well??

i think so... and these guys just need to practice on concentration and finishing....

leemhuis wrote:Balotelli’s neat turn and shot in the box had Stipe Pletikosa beaten but it was inches wide.

Claudio Marchisio drilled narrowly over from 15 yards.

Twice Cassano in front of goal

Claudio Marchisio double save by Croat GK

I have already mentioned the Marchisio chance. His first chance doesn't count, you said "sitters", hence you can't use it to back up your statement. Cassano missed one chance and that wasn't even a "sitter", it was more of a scuff and the position he found himself in was a very difficult one, actually. I'll give you the Balotelli chance, however, it was harder than what you may think.

JespSwe wrote:so leehuis and dante u guys think maybe italy should keep things at it is , tactics as well??

i think so... and these guys just need to practice on concentration and finishing....

yeah , i had my doubts as to if the 3-5-2 to would be the best way to go against a side that doesn't necessarily depend on possesion football like Spain , i was thinking they would have build up issues , but Pirlo's brlliance overshadows systems in the middle when he wants it!

If they were a bit more precise , even lucky , Italy would have won today. Not to mention the wrong call on 77m when it was pretty clear this wasn't offside . This would have easily resulted in a goal .

But big credit should go to Croatia as well . They looked Italy in the eyes , played them as much better they could and they even took that precious point. Amazing game from both teams .

All Italy needs to do now , is win Ireland and go with the same tactics and system again.
It's within their powers , but if they take Ireland lightly , they ll have it tough.

Dante wrote:

JespSwe wrote:so leehuis and dante u guys think maybe italy should keep things at it is , tactics as well??

i think so... and these guys just need to practice on concentration and finishing....

yeah , i had my doubts as to if the 3-5-2 to would be the best way to go against a side that doesn't necessarily depend on possesion football like Spain , i was thinking they would have build up issues , but Pirlo's brlliance overshadows systems in the middle when he wants it!

If they were a bit more precise , even lucky , Italy would have won today. Not to mention the wrong call on 77m when it was pretty clear this wasn't offside . This would have easily resulted in a goal .

But big credit should go to Croatia as well . They looked Italy in the eyes , played them as much better they could and they even took that precious point. Amazing game from both teams .

All Italy needs to do now , is win Ireland and go with the same tactics and system again.
It's within their powers , but if they take Ireland lightly , they ll have it tough.

yeah i think so as welll i also feel its just how training and preparations thats hinding italy a bit...

II Capitano wrote:

leemhuis wrote:Balotelli’s neat turn and shot in the box had Stipe Pletikosa beaten but it was inches wide.

Claudio Marchisio drilled narrowly over from 15 yards.

Twice Cassano in front of goal

Claudio Marchisio double save by Croat GK

I have already mentioned the Marchisio chance. His first chance doesn't count, you said "sitters", hence you can't use it to back up your statement. Cassano missed one chance and that wasn't even a "sitter", it was more of a scuff and the position he found himself in was a very difficult one, actually. I'll give you the Balotelli chance, however, it was harder than what you may think.

At this level they are sitters. Mind you, our players are just as terribel as finishers, that is why we are realistically eliminated. Cassano had 2 sitters.

Marchisio was alone in front of the goal. Sitter

Marchisio had two chances at the same occasion, sitter.

Balotelli if he had real quality would have scored the sitter.

Facts is, the Italians do not have the same level of quality in forwards I remember from before 2006. This started in 2008 when the Italian forwards started missing in front of the goal.

i dont see italy getting out of this group the way the table looks now

leemhuis wrote:

II Capitano wrote:

leemhuis wrote:Balotelli’s neat turn and shot in the box had Stipe Pletikosa beaten but it was inches wide.

Claudio Marchisio drilled narrowly over from 15 yards.

Twice Cassano in front of goal

Claudio Marchisio double save by Croat GK

I have already mentioned the Marchisio chance. His first chance doesn't count, you said "sitters", hence you can't use it to back up your statement. Cassano missed one chance and that wasn't even a "sitter", it was more of a scuff and the position he found himself in was a very difficult one, actually. I'll give you the Balotelli chance, however, it was harder than what you may think.

At this level they are sitters. Mind you, our players are just as terribel as finishers, that is why we are realistically eliminated. Cassano had 2 sitters.

Marchisio was alone in front of the goal. Sitter

Marchisio had two chances at the same occasion, sitter.

Balotelli if he had real quality would have scored the sitter.

Facts is, the Italians do not have the same level of quality in forwards I remember from before 2006. This started in 2008 when the Italian forwards started missing in front of the goal.

Yes, but you said Marchisio's chance from 15 yards is a sitter, which doesn't make sense. Also, the rebound, after Marchisio's initial shot when he was through, isn't really a sitter considering the bodies that covered Croatia's goalkeeper.

Balotelli does have quality, and his importance to the side has shown in the last two games. When he has been subbed off, we have looked less likely of getting a goal (Di Natale's goal acts as a smokescreen). His hold-up play and intelligence could have been used more, and he could have scored, he was unlucky.

I agree with you, but Holland have better finishers, you're doing yourself injustice. We're busy playing Cassano and Balotelli up front, whilst looking like idiots.

zizzle wrote:i dont see italy getting out of this group the way the table looks now

If they beat Ireland, they're through. Unless Spain tie Croatia in which case we'll have three teams at 5 points. The point is that although Italy are not in the most ideal situation, they're still very much in control of progressing past the group stage.

Italy are definitely not going to lose to Ireland. The way they played against Croatia, and the way they are currently playing against Spain, shows how much quality they lack.

Cookie Monster wrote:

zizzle wrote:i dont see italy getting out of this group the way the table looks now

If they beat Ireland, they're through. Unless Spain tie Croatia in which case we'll have three teams at 5 points. The point is that although Italy are not in the most ideal situation, they're still very much in control of progressing past the group stage.

This.

If no draw occurs between Spain and Croatia, and Italy beat Ireland, they're through.

Italy? They should try to hit a few past Ireland, that's for sure. If they want to have a chance to qualify that is.

Spain vs Croatia. I think the first goal will be very crucial. Croatia are a well-balanced side. They are good at attacking but they are also quite good at defending and if they score first, they will make it extremely difficult for Spain to score a goal. If Spain score first however, Croatia will have to come out and attack, leaving more space for Spain's tiki-taka masters to exploit and this will get them destroyed.

"I made the mistake for Croatia's goal. I gave too much space to Mandzukic. He did well to control the ball and score, but I had to be closer to him," Chiellini told reporters after the game.

It was the same story against Spain in their opening Group C game as Italy took the lead through Antonio Di Natale but were pegged back just four minutes later when Cesc Fabregas was allowed to run through and score.

The Juventus defender knows the importance of keeping a clean sheet and how tough it can be defending on an international level.

"Even against Spain we were winning and at this level it is like this. You give away a chance and they will score. In the second half we were too close to our own goal."

The two draws means Italy will have to beat the Republic of Ireland in their final game to have a chance of qualifying for the knockout rounds.

danyjr wrote:Italy? They should try to hit a few past Ireland, that's for sure. If they want to have a chance to qualify that is.

Spain vs Croatia. I think the first goal will be very crucial. Croatia are a well-balanced side. They are good at attacking but they are also quite good at defending and if they score first, they will make it extremely difficult for Spain to score a goal. If Spain score first however, Croatia will have to come out and attack, leaving more space for Spain's tiki-taka masters to exploit and this will get them destroyed.

In the scenario where Spain and Croatia draw with a score more than 1-1, Italy could score 50 goals against Ireland and it would not matter. They would be eliminated. It would be the total goals scored by the three teams even on points that would decide.

Right, so unless I understand something wrong, if Italy win by more than 2 goals they're through. And that's highly likely given that Ireland are mathematically out of the competition, they have an Italian manager, and when teams are mathematically out they tend to play subs to give the players more European experience.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Right, so unless I understand something wrong, if Italy win by more than 2 goals they're through. And that's highly likely given that Ireland are mathematically out of the competition, they have an Italian manager, and when teams are mathematically out they tend to play subs to give the players more European experience.

No. If Spain and Croatia draw more than 1-1. (2-2, 3-3 etc.). Italy are eliminated no matter what they do against Ireland.

leemhuis wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Right, so unless I understand something wrong, if Italy win by more than 2 goals they're through. And that's highly likely given that Ireland are mathematically out of the competition, they have an Italian manager, and when teams are mathematically out they tend to play subs to give the players more European experience.

No. If Spain and Croatia draw more than 1-1. (2-2, 3-3 etc.). Italy are eliminated no matter what they do against Ireland.

why?

if spain and croatia tie 5-5, then croatia have a goal difference of +2
Italy's GD is 0.

if Italy win by 3, their goal difference will be +3.

It would look like::
Spain 5 PTS GD 4
Italy 5 PTS GD 3
Croatia 5 PTS GD 2
Ireland 0 PTS GD -2492348234

or is goal differential not used?

Qualification is at this stage decided by goal difference in head-to-head meetings (which is 0, because they're all draws) and then goals scored in head-to-heads.

This means if Spain-Croatia ended 2-2, then both those teams would qualify thanks to a superior number of goals scored in the head-to-heads.

It is exactly the same situation that saw Italy knocked out of Euro 2004 when Denmark and Sweden drew 2-2.

However, if Spain-Croatia were to end 1-1, then the overall goal difference would be taken into consideration.

http://www.football-italia.net/19994/euro-2012-italy-qualify-if

Ireland does not count for the goal difference, only goals between the teams involved in the tie breaking. So since all the teams involved have only ties between them goal difference of all three is zero. So it goes to total goals scored by the three teams involved in the tie break.

leemhuis wrote:Ireland does not count for the goal difference, only goals between the teams involved in the tie breaking. So since all the teams involved have only ties between them goal difference of all three is zero. So it goes to total goals scored by the three teams involved in the tie break.

makes perfect sense, thanks.

Pretty stupid if you ask me to count head-to-head goal difference. But rules are rules. It should be this way in my opinion:

1. Points
   
2. Head to head results
   
3. Goal difference (this is where I disagree with the rules, why should head-to-head goal difference count above overall goal difference?)
   
4. etc

No disrespect to Croatia, but I hope Spain and Italy make it through because they are the better teams in the group. Unquestionable fact for me is that Spain can win against Croatia if they want to. But wouldn't they prefer if Italy were eliminated in order to avoid them in the final stages?

Also I don't buy the 'cause Trapatoni is Italian so he will let his team get thrashed by his compatriots'. He's only a manager after all.

i believe in Spanish professionalism. if i see anything deliberate between spain and croatia i will be very disappointed.

though italy has only themselves to blame for putting themselves in that position however, i am proud of what italians have done, in terms of general display. they have been pretty good in defense, pretty good in build up play and creating chances, unlike absolutely horrendous euro 2008 and world cup 2010 campaign. italy have been poor just in loosing their concentration a bit. i mean in general italians played well against Spain and Croatia but just one off-judgement or concentration have cost them goals.

whatever happens to italians should they go out, its not because of tactics, its not because of prandelli squad selection, its because how they have prepared themselves in training, and being less clinical infront of goal.

perhaps giuseppe rossi is missed the most because with number of chances italians have been creating would have been a perfect situation for rossi to grace.

I don't think spain really care who goes through in this competition, the only team they're probably watching out for now is germany.

They enjoyed 60+% possesion vs the italians and as soon as a striker came on spain looked very comfortable..

Croatians & italy are at a similar level from what I gathered. I think spain will win Cro though tbh so Italy should be going through.

Gemini wrote:I don't think spain really care who goes through in this competition, the only team they're probably watching out for now is germany.

They enjoyed 60+% possesion vs the italians and as soon as a striker came on spain looked very comfortable..

Croatians & italy are at a similar level from what I gathered. I think spain will win Cro though tbh so Italy should be going through.

yeah well i hope so , i hope spain are just concerned about their own business. i am azzurri fan so its not nice to rely now on spain to beat croatia, and to be fair to croatia they dont deserve to be out either. they have put a brave display out there.

and italy problem always is that they struggle against small nations more than against bigger opposition so, thats my biggest fear atm...

Yeah I totally agree with you that the croatians put a very spirited performance together. I was especially impressed with their striker, haven't heard of him prior the euro's.

This was the group of death in disguise, Ireland were weak, but the one of the strongest teams from the group stages of this tournament will end up going home.

They are so gonna tie 2-2, PLUS Italy has to beat Ireland. You know that's not easy for them.

I'm sure, I'm SO SURE, Ireland is gonna score first on that game.