Euro 2012 Referee Thread

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Post by rwo power Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:25 am

I thought it might be practical to have a ref thread, too.

Yesterday in the chat, there was some discussion where it was claimed that Wolfgang Stark was not so convincing in the Poland-Russia match, and opinion I didn't share. Interestingly, the officials pertaining to refereeing in Germany (DFB refereeing instructor, Vice-chairman of the DFB Referee Committee and DFL Referee Representative) gave Stark only the very best marks for his performance.

Source: http://www.sport1.de/de/fussball/fussball_em/newspage_572393.html (Language: German)
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Post by Die Borussen Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:20 am

i feel there is so much favor towards sides with larger fan-base that travelled to poland-ukraine
i cant explain it differently, i know i might sound stupid and childish but i dont care
probably its to avoid any kind of violence,

and this is crap, i saw yesterday's game, it doesnt have to be decisive moments. every tackle/touch/ball steal the russians made it was converted to a foul,
i even remember that moment in the penalty area with dzagoev when the poland guy jumped on dzagoev's back and the ref gave the foul for poland, seriously now?

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Post by Art Morte Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:25 am

Refereeing has been below-par in the last few matches.
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Post by Zealous Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:36 am

Stark is bad because the ''less important'' calls always go to the team he likes the most lol
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Post by Die Borussen Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:46 am

not sure if ironic hmm

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Post by Lex Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:19 pm

Have basically cost Greece the tournament. Two soft yellows in their first game which resulted in a red and suspension, then yesterday, disallowed a perfectly legit goal that would have eventually tied the game 2-2 by the end
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Post by Forza Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:20 pm

Kassai was GOAT in Italy v Spain.
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:42 pm

rwo power wrote:I thought it might be practical to have a ref thread, too.

Yesterday in the chat, there was some discussion where it was claimed that Wolfgang Stark was not so convincing in the Poland-Russia match, and opinion I didn't share. Interestingly, the officials pertaining to refereeing in Germany (DFB refereeing instructor, Vice-chairman of the DFB Referee Committee and DFL Referee Representative) gave Stark only the very best marks for his performance.

Source: http://www.sport1.de/de/fussball/fussball_em/newspage_572393.html (Language: German)

I don't see why you need others opinion to back your up.

I guess by this logic since the FA rates Howard Webb, Martin Atkinson or the FIGC rates Paolo Tagliavento highly, they must be very good.

Quite the contrary as I can bet a large number of fans here rate all 4 of these names as below average and poor referees. I would agree with them.

Lannoy, Kassai, Erikkson, Thomson, Rizzoli>>>>>>Stark.

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Post by Abramovich Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:45 pm

The italian ref for England vs France was a frog loving bastard as well.
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Post by billy_gr Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:02 pm

what Lex said...
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Post by rwo power Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:43 pm

Arquitecto wrote:I don't see why you need others opinion to back your up.

I guess by this logic since the FA rates Howard Webb, Martin Atkinson or the FIGC rates Paolo Tagliavento highly, they must be very good.

Quite the contrary as I can bet a large number of fans here rate all 4 of these names as below average and poor referees. I would agree with them.

Lannoy, Kassai, Erikkson, Thomson, Rizzoli>>>>>>Stark.
Well, it is you who again started a "Schwanzvergleich" (as we say in German, meaning those silly "mine is bigger than yours" comparisons). I have in no place put a comparison of X is better than Y, I just stated my opinion that Stark was very good yesterday (which you derided) and that I wasn't alone in that opinion.

BTW, other people interested in refereeing also agreed in that respect:
http://worldreferee.com/site/match.php?refID=494&matchID=47414
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:50 pm

rwo power wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:I don't see why you need others opinion to back your up.

I guess by this logic since the FA rates Howard Webb, Martin Atkinson or the FIGC rates Paolo Tagliavento highly, they must be very good.

Quite the contrary as I can bet a large number of fans here rate all 4 of these names as below average and poor referees. I would agree with them.

Lannoy, Kassai, Erikkson, Thomson, Rizzoli>>>>>>Stark.
Well, it is you who again started a "Schwanzvergleich" (as we say in German, meaning those silly "mine is bigger than yours" comparisons). I have in no place put a comparison of X is better than Y, I just stated my opinion that Stark was very good yesterday (which you derided) and that I wasn't alone in that opinion.

BTW, other people interested in refereeing also agreed in that respect:
http://worldreferee.com/site/match.php?refID=494&matchID=47414

I don't see when I said Stark was poor yesterday considering I said Stark is a poor ref as a whole.

And no I never resorted to Schwanzvergliech at any time considering I only made comparison's of other German's who deserve to be ahead of Stark in that respect. Fine, Rafarti was harsh on Stark yet the other names I provided are undoubtedly better than Stark who has a record of dozing off in matches and thus making his controversial calls.

You provided me a link of an individual defending Stark's refereeing. I guess I will provide you a page of opinions and refs defending Mike Dean or Phil Dowd, both who are proven imbeciles. Laughing



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Post by dostoevsky Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:52 pm

I know this is off topic, but who else is in favour of renaming the Right Back Section: Schwanzvergleich?
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Post by Forza Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:57 pm

dostoevsky wrote:I know this is off topic, but who else is in favour of renaming the Right Back Section: Schwanzvergleich?
I think it should be called "E-Schwanzvergleich"
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Post by rwo power Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:04 pm

dostoevsky wrote:I know this is off topic, but who else is in favour of renaming the Right Back Section: Schwanzvergleich?
Euro 2012 Referee Thread Rofl_smilie
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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:24 am

Germany has bad experiences with Spanish refs. Remember Alberto Undiano in the WC2010? :facepalm: And Carlos Velasco Carballo seems to be similarly card-happy...
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Post by guest7 Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:33 am

Everyone has bad experiences with Spanish refs. Laughing I really think they're brain dead Laughing
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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:48 am

I bet UEFA wants sufficient numbers of yellows and suspensions for Germany so that we are weakened and possibly go out earlier and don't endanger their favourite kiddies Spain :coffee:
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Post by dostoevsky Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:54 am

rwo power wrote:Germany has bad experiences with Spanish refs. Remember Alberto Undiano in the WC2010? :facepalm: And Carlos Velasco Carballo seems to be similarly card-happy...

It was a very dirty game to begin with, the game only calmed down after Klose's red card when the players realised they couldn't get away with poor tackles. The referee made himself respected, as he should have done.
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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:59 am

dostoevsky wrote:It was a very dirty game to begin with, the game only calmed down after Klose's red card when the players realised they couldn't get away with poor tackles. The referee made himself respected, as he should have done.
o_O Undiano had no real control over the game at all and tried to make up for not getting respected due to his lacking personality by wildly dishing out cards! A good ref would be able to get respect without having to pose as card dealer!

If you look at the bookings - 6 were given before the break. And it looked very much as if someone told Undiano in the break that he was way too card happy, so he was even extremely inconsistent and didn't give cards for the same stuff in the 2nd half. Very bad performance, that.
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Post by dostoevsky Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:08 am

Most of the cards he issued were justified, the players continued to tackle recklessly until one of them finally went too far and the consequences scared the living daylights out of the players.

Referees are too often blamed for not being respected for letting too much go and for being too strict and it's a common argument because it requires little justification other than frustration with the game and its contradictions don't matter. Was the referee supposedly at fault as well during the Netherlands-Portugal in 2006? If players are constantly committing fouls then they get what they deserve. Being too strict never led to a more violent game, that's on the head of the players.
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Post by rwo power Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:24 am

From what I remember, several of the booked fouls in the Germany-Serbia game were what in Germany is considered "normale Härte" (that is "normal, if somewhat hard tackles"). The problem is that Spanish referees are obviously used to ref fairies that flutter wildly around. That's probably why German refs are often considered a bit too lenient when on international duty.

As for the Portugal-Netherlands match - that was total :facepalm: I think some cold shower from above like yesterday before the France-Ukraine game would have been beneficial to cool the players down. Valentin Ivanov obviously had in no time any control over the match, and obviously the bookings and sendings off didn't help him either (I think that was his last international match, he refereed, too). If a ref can't command respect by his personality, then not even dozens of cards will really help him.


I just remembered, we have a referee thread, so I moved the OT stuff from the DEN-GER match here.
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Post by dostoevsky Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:36 am

This doesn't really classify itself as "Euro 2012" discussion, so I'll keep this brief. The referee will at all times remain partly responsible for the nature of a match, however this is mostly at keeping temperatures below boiling point to begin with. Depending on the nature of the players, what is at stake, the rivalry between the two teams and the severity of the incidents, referees have a sometimes horrific job controlling games and whilst personality helps, players are meant to show respect for those officiating games, not demand that they earn it. I've no problem with a referee who is particularly strict and in my eyes the fact that the game noticeably calmed down from the opening twenty minutes was indicative of his positive effect.
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Post by The Sanchez Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:40 am

rwo power wrote:I bet UEFA wants sufficient numbers of yellows and suspensions for Germany so that we are weakened and possibly go out earlier and don't endanger their favourite kiddies Spain :coffee:
Love the sarcasm :coffee:
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Post by Lex Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:08 pm

Another shit call against Greece. Karagounsi tripped and should be a penalty...............but instead, is booked for diving and misses the next game

Uefa should stop hiring the homeless and mentally unstable as referees
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