Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

+22
billy_gr
The Sanchez
Prometheus
Khaled
Madvillain
jibers
guest7
gondov
free_cat
BarcaKizz
II Capitano
7amood11
the xcx
The Franchise
BarrileteCosmico
alexjanosik
Cotes
Kick
dostoevsky
DuringTheWar
Potential
messixaviesta
26 posters

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by messixaviesta Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:44 am

Here is what the much maligned Goal.com came up with. Anyway this is not about debating the merits and demerits of that website but using these criteria as a template and giving our own detailed views.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/2898/euro-2012/2012/06/10/3154138/xavi-v-andrea-pirlo-the-ultimate-head-to-head-between-the

I think that in dribbling I would give Xavi a 4.5 instead of a 4 and Pirlo too a 4.5 instead of the 5 that he has been given. Also in creativity and decision making I would give Pirlo a 4.5 but a 5 will be reserved exclusively for Xavi especially in decision making. Other than that by and large the ratings seem fair.

What do you all think?


messixaviesta
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 4207
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 44

http://twitter.com/messixaviesta , http://footballbydeepak.blogs

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by Potential Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:08 pm

You seriously post this in the Barcelona section and expect an honest unbiased answers?
Potential
Potential
Banned (Permanent)

Club Supported : Inter Milan
Posts : 1203
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by DuringTheWar Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:15 pm

how can either have any more than 3 stars for dribbling? they get 3 for their shielding ability and close control, but neither does much running with the ball
DuringTheWar
DuringTheWar
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2870
Join date : 2012-01-03

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by dostoevsky Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:17 pm

I agree that Pirlo isn't a better dribbler than Xavi, the latter being underrated in that respect, however as far as the criteria, I object to the suggestion that one can give equal weighting to these aspects and the manner in which they have separated some of these criteria seems fairly inexact in nature. 'Passing' seems to be a fairly significant category to consider with a single analysis, one that contributes an equal value as 'crossing.' Bizarre to say the least.

There are a few other categories where I take issue with the ratings, however I don't believe that a refinement of each mark or even the awarding of 'half marks' would contribute any more insight into the comparison. The manner in which it is done leaves too much unjustified, it doesn't even qualify as statistical analysis, which even then I find frustrating when used as law rather than in support of a point.

Also this isn't relevant, however in the most passes completed list there is a player called Ashley Williams...is it bad that I have no idea who he is?
dostoevsky
dostoevsky
Super Moderator
Super Moderator

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 7557
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by Kick Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:33 pm

Ashley Williams is Swansealona's Captain and CB.
Kick
Kick
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Chelsea
Posts : 34814
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by Cotes Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:58 pm

The truth about Pirlo & Xavi...
both are maestro's & they play according to their league...

For instance, Xavi will find a killer through ball that leaves the defense stunned in La Liga because of the type of league...
Once you are tactically gift, u will always find space...
While...
In Italy where teams focus more on defense, a through pass might not be as effective being intercepted or tracked back & cut out...
So Pirlo normally plays them over the top...

Creativeness & Vision...
They are equal...

I believe both can do what the other does but they just play that way because of their respective league...

That being said.
ANDREA ALL DAY Very Happy!!!!
Cotes
Cotes
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 3597
Join date : 2011-08-30
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by alexjanosik Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:07 pm

Over the past 4 years Xavi has played at a level that Pirlo never played at.
He has played atleast a couple of levels above a prime Pirlo during this time.
He has been outplayed in midfield just once in 4 years.Nobody has dominated a midfield like Xavi has over the past 4 years.

alexjanosik
First Team
First Team

Posts : 3236
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by Cotes Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:41 pm

alexjanosik wrote:Over the past 4 years Xavi has played at a level that Pirlo never played at.
He has played atleast a couple of levels above a prime Pirlo during this time.
He has been outplayed in midfield just once in 4 years.Nobody has dominated a midfield like Xavi has over the past 4 years.

your ignorance is too much...
Pirlo proved himself vs arguable the world's best midfielder ever Zidane...
People started highlighting Xavi once Zidane retired...
Anyone who watched the World Cup final 2006 would see that Pirlo dominated the midfield...

Xavi thrives in Barca's "tika-taka" system
while Pirlo is basically the system of whatever team he plays, whether it Ac Milan, Juve, or the defence minded Italian style of play before or this offensive style of play Italian team..
Either way he thrives...

For me...If Xavi can leave his beloved Barcelona & prove his dominance of the midfield in a next team, in a whole new system then we have something to argue about...


Last edited by Cotes on Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
Cotes
Cotes
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 3597
Join date : 2011-08-30
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:12 pm

Potential wrote:You seriously post this in the Barcelona section and expect an honest unbiased answers?
He can't post this anywhere else, otherwise it would turn into a troll-fest. Milan and Juve fans are welcome to come in and contribute.

Cotes wrote:you're ignorance is too much...
Laughing

Cotes wrote:For me...If Xavi can leave his beloved Barcelona & prove his dominance of the midfield in a next team, in a whole new system then we have something to argue about...
Yes, because Pele needed to leave Santos,, Del Piero needed to leave Juve, Maldini needed to leave Milan, Yashin needed to leave Dynamo Moscow, etc. That's a ridiculous argument.
BarrileteCosmico
BarrileteCosmico
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 28032
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 32

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by alexjanosik Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:25 pm

Cotes wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:Over the past 4 years Xavi has played at a level that Pirlo never played at.
He has played atleast a couple of levels above a prime Pirlo during this time.
He has been outplayed in midfield just once in 4 years.Nobody has dominated a midfield like Xavi has over the past 4 years.

you're ignorance is too much...
Pirlo proved himself vs arguable the world's best midfielder ever Zidane...
People started highlighting Xavi once Zidane retired...
Anyone who watched the World Cup final 2006 would see that Pirlo dominated the midfield...

Xavi thrives in Barca's "tika-taka" system
while Pirlo is basically the system of whatever team he plays, whether it Ac Milan, Juve, or the defence minded Italian style of play before or this offensive style of play Italian team..
Either way he thrives...

For me...If Xavi can leave his beloved Barcelona & prove his dominance of the midfield in a next team, in a whole new system then we have something to argue about...

Kindly enlighten me as to all these different systems that Pirlo proved himself in.He has always had 2 other midfielders doing the dirty work for him.But lets pretend that he has proved himself in different systems.
And last I checked Xavi is the MVP for a Spain side which is the reigning Euro and World champions,a team other than Barcelona.
So thats your needs to prove himself in another team theory debunked.
Proving himself against Zidane.Xavi did that when Zidane played in La Liga.

alexjanosik
First Team
First Team

Posts : 3236
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by The Franchise Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:35 pm

I dont even see the point of this anymore to be honest.

For me, as great as Pirlo is, that kind of debate was fine when Pep wasnt coach. However, since Pep showed, made the tactical differences needed to bring out the best in our players..frankly, its not even that close...and I dont care who agrees or disagrees.

There are guys here, like Arq, like Doest and others..whos opinons I take with the upmost respect..but not even they can change my mind on this issue.

I have seen enough. Xavi has played at a level, in all my time watching football very few reach in his position..in fact, in his exact role..there is not one player.


Finally..Pirlo proved himself vs Zidane..erm..what? Italy beating France doesnt mean Pirlo "proved himself" (whatever that means) vs anyone. Pirlo had a good game..and what?

The Franchise
The Franchise
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 19651
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by The Franchise Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:36 pm

Potential wrote:You seriously post this in the Barcelona section and expect an honest unbiased answers?

He didnt ask for unbias answers, he asked for OUR (as in us in the Barca section) opinions.

The Franchise
The Franchise
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 19651
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by the xcx Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:37 pm

Xavi, no doubt about it.
the xcx
the xcx
Banned (Decade)

Club Supported : Manchester United
Posts : 7478
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by The Franchise Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:43 pm

Oh and to answer JD for a minute. We can scrap that article to be honest.

Getting individual attributes, putting them together and then coming out with an answer doesnt really work.

But anyway..Pirlo 5 star Free kicks...erm..he hasnt scored on like over 3 years I think. Even Xavi (who to me isnt great at them) is better than him in this area right now.
The Franchise
The Franchise
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 19651
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by DuringTheWar Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:56 pm

The Franchise wrote:

For me, as great as Pirlo is, that kind of debate was fine when Pep wasnt coach. However, since Pep showed, made the tactical differences needed to bring out the best in our players..frankly its not even that close


so.... xavi is only better in the perfect environment? an environment we havent seen pirlo play in
DuringTheWar
DuringTheWar
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2870
Join date : 2012-01-03

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by 7amood11 Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:06 pm

alexjanosik wrote:Over the past 4 years Xavi has played at a level that Pirlo never played at.
He has played atleast a couple of levels above a prime Pirlo during this time.
He has been outplayed in midfield just once in 4 years.Nobody has dominated a midfield like Xavi has over the past 4 years.

That is very, very wrong.

I have a sincere question to you: How many Juve matches have you watched last season? If you've watched just a handful, you'd know how great Pirlo is. I've watched Barca plenty of times last season and don't get me wrong, Xavi is great, but imo Pirlo out shined him.

At the beginning of Pep's era, Xavi was unrivaled, because Pirlo was having a dip at that time. But if you were to talk about last season or pre-2008, it's Pirlo >>> Xavi by a healthy margin. Both statistically and by just watching both of them play.

7amood11
7amood11
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 3112
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by The Franchise Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:10 pm

Is that what I said?

I really hate having to explain basic things.

No, it means once Pep came in the balance of the side changed and he brought a cohension and stability where everyone had their place and understood their role.

Once this happened, the team played at a high level and it did that behind individuals (Xavi being one of the main ones, in fact THE main one after Messi) who formed a collective.

Because of Xavi's high level, the team played at a high level.

There is no "pefect environement"..there are players and coaches who create situations.

But im sure you would prefer the magical "system" which magically makes players play well.

The Franchise
The Franchise
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 19651
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by Potential Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:13 pm

Anyone who says Xavi's 4 years dominance is what edges him over Pirlo haven't seen pre-injury Pirlo.
Potential
Potential
Banned (Permanent)

Club Supported : Inter Milan
Posts : 1203
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by The Franchise Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:13 pm

Pirlo was better than Xavi last season..In Europe..you know, where the best of the best play?


No, thought not.
The Franchise
The Franchise
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 19651
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by The Franchise Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:14 pm

Potential wrote:Anyone who says Xavi's 4 years dominance is what edges him over Pirlo haven't seen pre-injury Pirlo.

Or we have and we still say hes better.

You know, that is possible you know lol
The Franchise
The Franchise
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 19651
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by II Capitano Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 pm

Who cares, stop making a big meal out of it, and be grateful that we're watching two amazing midfielders. Truth is, we won't get to see similar players for a while, out of this current generation. For the record, Xavi has been more consistent than Pirlo over the past four seasons LOL, so you can't really argue any point. Pirlo had a better season last season, that's about it.
II Capitano
II Capitano
Starlet
Starlet

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 784
Join date : 2011-10-28
Age : 28

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by 7amood11 Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:23 pm

The Franchise wrote:Pirlo was better than Xavi last season..In Europe..you know, where the best of the best play?


No, thought not.

Yeah, Juve didn't qualify for the CL last season, but that's not Pirlo's fault. Compare them through their domestic leagues to see Pirlo's dominance last season.
7amood11
7amood11
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 3112
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by DuringTheWar Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:23 pm

I didnt ask for a description of barcelonas tactics. I questioned your suggestion that pirlo vs xavi was a reasonable debate before pep strolled in. It seems you dont think xavi is inherently better than pirlo (or at least not by much) but that the results of a synergy with other players brought about by a manager has brought him more success. Its either that or you should just state you think xavi has always been a better player or always had greater potential from day 1 before pep
DuringTheWar
DuringTheWar
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2870
Join date : 2012-01-03

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by 7amood11 Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:26 pm

II Capitano wrote:Who cares, stop making a big meal out of it, and be grateful that we're watching two amazing midfielders. Truth is, we won't get to see similar players for a while, out of this current generation. For the record, Xavi has been more consistent than Pirlo over the past four seasons LOL, so you can't really argue any point. Pirlo had a better season last season, that's about it.

I'm not sure that you have watched the pre-2008 Pirlo? His injury made him dip in form, but before that, he was completely unrivaled. Even last season, he was somewhat back to his best and outperformed Xavi.
7amood11
7amood11
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 3112
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by BarcaKizz Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:33 pm

I feel the same as Dani, and I think you know how I feel about Xavi anyway JD. Although I would love to answer you properly, I feel this topic has been done to death a bit, here, in other sections and its brought some hostile, very stubborn opinions which have just resulted in boring, unhelpful discussion.

Its as if every time somebody states a valid opinion with an explanation somebody has to come in and say 'Are you serious you idiot? Have you even seen ****?' and leaves their post at that... nothing helpful, no explanation given. This is why I post less and less....
BarcaKizz
BarcaKizz
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 3406
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way Empty Re: Xavi vs. Pirlo - Let's Revisit This In Our Own Way

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum