Re: LEquipe: Thiago Silva, Ibra and Verratti to PSG! (UPDATED July 17)

by nichabr Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:48 pm

What is Thiago being paid at PSG now that hes gone over because AC Milan already raised it before he left...has it raised again?

And does anyone know what PSG spends on wages alone?

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:50 pm

Doc wrote:I do love an informative thread. The "get a clue" part probably could have been not used though. Anyway, since BeIn Sport 1 is launching in the States apparently, how exactly are they gonna go about actually convincing the masses to actually subscribe. No disrespect to Ligue 1 but it isn't exactly a league that says "Watch me" nor does PSG have all that star power (as yet).

They also got La Liga and Serie A and Ligue 1in the US. They're broadcasting all the games.

by nichabr Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:53 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Doc wrote:I do love an informative thread. The "get a clue" part probably could have been not used though. Anyway, since BeIn Sport 1 is launching in the States apparently, how exactly are they gonna go about actually convincing the masses to actually subscribe. No disrespect to Ligue 1 but it isn't exactly a league that says "Watch me" nor does PSG have all that star power (as yet).

They also got La Liga and Serie A and Ligue 1in the US. They're broadcasting all the games.

so BeIn is gonna broadcast all leagues? scratch

If so why is it only funding PSG? and what rights do they pay to broadcast those matches? has to be alot.

by tonger Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:58 pm

nichabr wrote:What is Thiago being paid at PSG now that hes gone over because AC Milan already raised it before he left...has it raised again?

And does anyone know what PSG spends on wages alone?

iirc they are paying around the same (~6mil) but with bonus, and the specific clauses on bonuses i dun really know.

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:58 pm

nichabr wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
Doc wrote:I do love an informative thread. The "get a clue" part probably could have been not used though. Anyway, since BeIn Sport 1 is launching in the States apparently, how exactly are they gonna go about actually convincing the masses to actually subscribe. No disrespect to Ligue 1 but it isn't exactly a league that says "Watch me" nor does PSG have all that star power (as yet).

They also got La Liga and Serie A and Ligue 1in the US. They're broadcasting all the games.

so BeIn is gonna broadcast all leagues?

If so why is it only funding PSG? and what rights do they pay to broadcast those matches? has to be alot.

BeIn's programming will depend on the country. But it's not just footy, although its main asset is football rights. They broadcast everything. They eventually want to compete with ESPN, Sky and Fox.

In France, they broadcast rugby, tennis, track & field, etc. around the football schedule.

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:59 pm

tonger wrote:
nichabr wrote:What is Thiago being paid at PSG now that hes gone over because AC Milan already raised it before he left...has it raised again?

And does anyone know what PSG spends on wages alone?

iirc they are paying around the same (~6mil) but with bonus, and the specific clauses on bonuses i dun really know.

It's the exact same contract, except that PSG will indemnify against any additional French taxes.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:03 pm

When I predicted 2 years ago that Pastore would play for Milan this is not exactly what I had in mind hmm

by nichabr Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:03 pm

sportsczy wrote:
nichabr wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
Doc wrote:I do love an informative thread. The "get a clue" part probably could have been not used though. Anyway, since BeIn Sport 1 is launching in the States apparently, how exactly are they gonna go about actually convincing the masses to actually subscribe. No disrespect to Ligue 1 but it isn't exactly a league that says "Watch me" nor does PSG have all that star power (as yet).

They also got La Liga and Serie A and Ligue 1in the US. They're broadcasting all the games.

so BeIn is gonna broadcast all leagues?

If so why is it only funding PSG? and what rights do they pay to broadcast those matches? has to be alot.

BeIn's programming will depend on the country. But it's not just footy, although its main asset is football rights. They broadcast everything. They eventually want to compete with ESPN, Sky and Fox.

In France, they broadcast rugby, tennis, track & field, etc. around the football schedule.

Ok then...that would be crap if income from it would translate to what PSG as a club earn because it is not a channel solely devoted to PSG but multiple leagues and sports.

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:10 pm

You can't have a TV network just on one team lol. the YES Network in NY is owned by the Yankees and all its income hits operating profit & loss. But they do fill their programming when NY Yankees are in the offseason or not playing with everything else.

I won't get into the accounting rules... but the key is investment risk (PSG umbrella) and whether the accounting principles allow it to be treated as operating income (which the accountants have for PSG).

They invested over a billion euros to pay for these rights btw... let alone the cost for operating a TV network.

by Swanhends Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:31 pm

sportsczy wrote:They invested over a billion euros to pay for these rights btw... let alone the cost for operating a TV network.

....

So is the billion dollar payment is also on PSG's books?

I'm finding it extremely difficult to wrap my head around how you're talking as if PSG is going to get revenue from this TV network without having to bear the expense of purchasing the rights

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:37 pm

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:
sportsczy wrote:They invested over a billion euros to pay for these rights btw... let alone the cost for operating a TV network.

....

So is the billion dollar payment is also on PSG's books?

I'm finding it extremely difficult to wrap my head around how you're talking as if PSG is going to get revenue from this TV network without having to bear the expense of purchasing the rights

It's a capital investment.... an asset.. It amortizes over the life of the rights. Keep in mind that in France alone, BeIn Sport 1 had 400k at its launch and is over 1 mil now. at 11 euros a month pop, that's already 133 mil in revenue a year. They share that 50% with the distributor (cable, satellite, etc.). So they are making almost 70 mil a year while barely starting in revenue. With the new signings, i expect the total subscription to reach 5 mil by the time the season starts... and to watch La Liga, Seria A, EPL and Bundi, you need to get the network.

TV Networks that have content make HUGE money. That's inclusive of the amortization of the capital investment.

by Swanhends Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:40 pm

sportsczy wrote:
BhritanniaBhlue wrote:
sportsczy wrote:They invested over a billion euros to pay for these rights btw... let alone the cost for operating a TV network.

....

So is the billion dollar payment is also on PSG's books?

I'm finding it extremely difficult to wrap my head around how you're talking as if PSG is going to get revenue from this TV network without having to bear the expense of purchasing the rights

It's a capital investment.... an asset.. It amortizes over the life of the rights. Keep in mind that in France alone, BeIn Sport 1 had 400k at its launch and is over 1 mil now. at 11 euros a month pop, that's already 133 mil in revenue a year. They share that 50% with the distributor (cable, satellite, etc.). So they are making almost 70 mil a year while barely starting in revenue. With the new signings, i expect the total subscription to reach 5 mil by the time the season starts... and to watch La Liga, Seria A, EPL and Bundi, you need to get the network.

TV Networks that have content make HUGE money. That's inclusive of the amortization of the capital investment.

Assets are expensed as they are used, though...

In a 10 year, 1 billion dollar TV deal, after the first year 100 million of that is expensed

Does that 100 million dollar expense go on PSG's books?

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:47 pm

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
BhritanniaBhlue wrote:
sportsczy wrote:They invested over a billion euros to pay for these rights btw... let alone the cost for operating a TV network.

....

So is the billion dollar payment is also on PSG's books?

I'm finding it extremely difficult to wrap my head around how you're talking as if PSG is going to get revenue from this TV network without having to bear the expense of purchasing the rights

It's a capital investment.... an asset.. It amortizes over the life of the rights. Keep in mind that in France alone, BeIn Sport 1 had 400k at its launch and is over 1 mil now. at 11 euros a month pop, that's already 133 mil in revenue a year. They share that 50% with the distributor (cable, satellite, etc.). So they are making almost 70 mil a year while barely starting in revenue. With the new signings, i expect the total subscription to reach 5 mil by the time the season starts... and to watch La Liga, Seria A, EPL and Bundi, you need to get the network.

TV Networks that have content make HUGE money. That's inclusive of the amortization of the capital investment.

Assets are expensed as they are used, though...

In a 10 year, 1 billion dollar TV deal, after the first year 100 million of that is expensed

Does that 100 million dollar expense go on PSG's books?

That's just not for one territory. They spent that money for multiple leagues distribution rights over multiple territories. As they launch TV networks in the US, UK, Germany, etc., it grows exponentially.

I just gave you an example of the first network that launched. BeIn Sport 2 launches in France in October. BeIN Sports in the US in August. Etc.

As far as how it's accounted on the PSG's holding company books, i'm sure there's an allocation. For example, if 30% of the programming is Ligue 1 and PSG content, 30% of the revenue & expenses of the network gets booked. The key is that it's a percentage of the overall.... so the benefit of having quality overall content is massive.

by zizzle Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:52 pm

sportsczy you are dancing around the subject without giving any real answers. Im no expert on the FFP rules but basic accounting rules says expenses follow the revenues and PSG should carry the expenses of that project if they're to count the income as revenue

by Guest Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:58 pm

zizzle wrote:sportsczy you are dancing around the subject without giving any real answers. Im no expert on the FFP rules but basic accounting rules says expenses follow the revenues and PSG should carry the expenses of that project if they're to count the income as revenue

by nichabr Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:03 pm

According to what ive read so far PSG are screwed and won't be making much cash until maybe 15 years time.

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:04 pm

zizzle wrote:sportsczy you are dancing around the subject without giving any real answers. Im no expert on the FFP rules but basic accounting rules says expenses follow the revenues and PSG should carry the expenses of that project if they're to count the income as revenue

Absolutely. But BeIn Sport 1 is already scheduled to make a 20 mil+ profit on revenue of 60+ mil even with around 1 million subscribers.... there's no dancing around it. They are going to make massive monies on this in France alone. They assessed (correctly) that they could better monetize their own product than a 3rd party or the league could. So in essence, they bought back their rights from the league. the 350 mil + euros they invested in Ligue 1 rights (5-years)... they get some of that back in the revenue share lol.

What they're likely going to do is put PSG/Ligue 1 material in off hours on the network so they maximize their allocation.

Also keep in mind that all the previous P&Ls didn't include CL since PSG has not made CL in a while... so that's coming into the pot too.

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:05 pm

Anyhow, if you guys are still hoping that PSG will not make this work.... keep dreaming lol

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:17 pm

Verizon better carry BeIn Sad

by nichabr Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:17 pm

sportsczy wrote:Anyhow, if you guys are still hoping that PSG will not make this work.... keep dreaming lol

You haven't said anything to make us think otherwise.

You said that this BeIn's income will go to PSGs books but the expenses aren't going into their books either?...Also you stated they are building or buying a stadium which is going to be more expenses that will show up on PSGs books unless they get a lucrative sponsorship from a big company and add to all that they probably have to pay more wages than any other team in the league by a good margin which is more strain on their books yet again....these expenses are going to cripple any chance of a decent income for PSG even if they win the CL.

by Guest Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:19 pm

nichabr wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Anyhow, if you guys are still hoping that PSG will not make this work.... keep dreaming lol
You haven't said anything to make us think otherwise.

You said that this BeIn's income will go to PSGs books but the expenses aren't going into their books either?...Also you stated they are building or buying a stadium which is going to be more expenses that will show up on PSGs books unless they get a lucrative sponsorship from a big company and add to all that they probably have to pay more wages than any other team in the league by a good margin which is more strain on their books yet again....these expenses are going to cripple any chance of a decent income for PSG.

sports trying to convince us was like watching an ant trying to drill a hole into a rock so he could screw it sideways

mildly entertaining, but ultimately stupid haha

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:27 pm

Crimson.... i know it's hard to count past 20 since that's your maximum number of fingers and toes. You're not my target audience until you take algebra.

@nichabr. Quote me. I always talked in terms of revenue. The zizzle said it's more relevant to him to know the expenses involved against the revenue so he can understand profitability. Ok. on 60 mil+ of revenue, BeIn Sport 1 is expected to make 20+ mil. That's in France only keep in mind.

Before going off on the 350 mil divided by 5 years is 70 mil.... keep in mind that it's worldwide rights. So only a portion of this total is allocated to the France market. Portions of it will be allocated to other markets. Roughly 30-35 mil of it is allocated to the France networks annually. The rest of it is spread across the world.

by Swanhends Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:32 pm

sportsczy wrote:Anyhow, if you guys are still hoping that PSG will not make this work.... keep dreaming lol

There isn't any "hoping" involved here. I have literally no reason to dislike PSG, and what their doing at the moment has little to no impact on me.

But either there is some funamental principle of french accounting that none of us seem to to have heard of or understand, or you are misinformed about this TV Networks effect on PSG's relationship with FFP.

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:34 pm

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Anyhow, if you guys are still hoping that PSG will not make this work.... keep dreaming lol

There isn't any "hoping" involved here. I have literally no reason to dislike PSG, and what their doing at the moment has little to no impact on me.

But either there is some funamental principle of french accounting that none of us seem to to have heard of or understand, or you are misinformed about this TV Networks effect on PSG's relationship with FFP.

What's so hard about understanding that PSG bought back its media rights from Ligue 1 and has created its own platform to distribute its content?

by nichabr Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:43 pm

sportsczy wrote:Crimson.... i know it's hard to count past 20 since that's your maximum number of fingers and toes. You're not my target audience until you take algebra.

@nichabr. Quote me. I always talked in terms of revenue. The zizzle said it's more relevant to him to know the expenses involved against the revenue so he can understand profitability. Ok. on 60 mil+ of revenue, BeIn Sport 1 is expected to make 20+ mil. That's in France only keep in mind.
Before going off on the 350 mil divided by 5 years is 70 mil.... keep in mind that it's worldwide rights. So only a portion of this total is allocated to the France market. Portions of it will be allocated to other markets. Roughly 30-35 mil of it is allocated to the France networks annually. The rest of it is spread across the world.

No im not that bored or desperate to prove anything wrong
That doesn't explain how a Tv Channel not devoted to PSG can have its income on their books. If anything its a good way of marketing but it has nothing to do with the club or their earning so PSG should not have it on their books.

by sportsczy Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:51 pm

nichabr wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Crimson.... i know it's hard to count past 20 since that's your maximum number of fingers and toes. You're not my target audience until you take algebra.

@nichabr. Quote me. I always talked in terms of revenue. The zizzle said it's more relevant to him to know the expenses involved against the revenue so he can understand profitability. Ok. on 60 mil+ of revenue, BeIn Sport 1 is expected to make 20+ mil. That's in France only keep in mind.
Before going off on the 350 mil divided by 5 years is 70 mil.... keep in mind that it's worldwide rights. So only a portion of this total is allocated to the France market. Portions of it will be allocated to other markets. Roughly 30-35 mil of it is allocated to the France networks annually. The rest of it is spread across the world.
No im not that bored or desperate to prove anything wrong
That doesn't explain how a Tv Channel not devoted to PSG can have its income on their books. If anything its a good way of marketing but it has nothing to do with the club or their earning so PSG should not have it on their books.

It'll just show up on their book next year anyhow. Once the annual report comes out, i'll go over it with you guys at the time. It'll be easier than trying to explain it.

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