Thiago or Verratti?

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Post by Gil Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:33 pm

The Xavi and Pirlo of their generation. Who's the better CM, both short and long term?
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Post by Robespierre Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:35 pm

It's difficult to say it now but I prefer Verratti , anyway I might be biased as Italian


Last edited by Robespierre on Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Franchise Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:54 pm

If anything Verratti is more like Xavi than Pirlo, and more like Xavi than even Thiago.

Anyway, Thiago. The difference I see is defensive skills. Thiago has some, Verratti has very little.
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Post by Gil Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:00 am

The Franchise wrote:If anything Verratti is more like Xavi than Pirlo, and more like Xavi than even Thiago.

Anyway, Thiago. The difference I see is defensive skills. Thiago has some, Verratti has very little.

Have to agree with that. He's also superior physically and has an eye for goal unlike Verratti.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:05 am

I think his superior physical skills are probably why he is better defensively. He wins aerial balls, he tackles, he presses, he runs...he isnt a holdind midfielder, so if he struggled there for Bayern (I didnt see the game/s in which he played there) I am not surprised by I hardly think it means anything because that role isnt much about physical skills but understanding when to move and when not to..which isnt for everyone.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:49 am

Thiago has an eye for goal because his natural position on the pitch is higher that Verratti's.

Verratti worries about order and control in the middle of the pitch, conductor of the orchestra and all that, where as Thiago shows times and times again that the closer to goal you play him, the better. It's almost as if his natural goes against the type of footballer he was instructed to be, but as he matures, he makes better decisions about what kind of role he needs to perform games by games.

For the defensive part of it, i blamed Verratti a great deal last season for that, but this season he has made tremendous strides in that regard. He can still be rash but he has improved by a lot. I am not sure what's the metric here to compare the level of defending but i am positive Verratti isnt that bad in comparison to Thiago. As far as tackling, running and pressing, he does it. challenging for headers however, well, he is just too short anyway
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Post by dostoevsky Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:21 am

I basically share Dani's opinion, though I think Nick's point about Verratti's defensive improvement is important when you consider their different career trajectories. Verratti went straight from playing in Serie B with a suicidally offensive team to playing in the Champions League against the likes of Barcelona, it's unsurprising that he looked vulnerable last season. Thiago on the other hand was able to be eased into top flight football, though even so he's never looked to be a liability in defence from the very first moment, even against opposition such as Madrid.

Importantly for the future Verratti has the sort of attitude and work ethic that allows him to improve in this aspect. His positioning requires work, however his zealousness and aggression in the tackle at least speak of a player willing to do the hard yards and I'm certain we'll see him grow defensively. I'm too enamoured of Thiago's work in the final third to pick anyone else though, at least at this stage in their careers.
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Post by Adit Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:28 am

Both plays like Xavi's of their generation . Verrati plays the regista role,yet his primary instinct is to keep the ball at his feet, he will always dribble through players if there is any chance of a dribble.Still dont like Verrati defensively,he cant play in a 2 man midfield.

Any way it is very close and i rate both higher than Pogba.
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:59 am

Can't say who is better, but I like Thiago more. But still, if Gundogan goes back to his 2012-13 level, he is the best young CM out there, and one of the best in the world.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:31 pm

Verratti is poised as can be...  it's impossible to take the ball away from him and he plays with the same ease whether it's in his own box or in the opponents's area.  Just dominates the midfield with his technique.

Defensively, he's become very solid.  He anticipates passes and moves... thus recovering a large number of balls this year.  Really, Van Der Wiel's improvement has a lot to do with Verratti offering him good cover this year.  He's no Matuidi obviously who helps Maxwell... but he's doing a very good job this year.  

He's better than Thiago for me.  He's younger, has more experience and, frankly, more technically gifted... and that's saying a lot because as Thiago is very gifted too.

He's a true CM.  He's not looking to score.  He's looking to get the ball as close to the defense as he can and get the ball forward to give it to one of the forwards in perfect conditions... there's no gloryhunting for goals or assists, which is exactly what you want from a CM.  What's also interesting is that, if the forwards have troube creating, he jumps forward and helps them... but he only does it if they're struggling. Never forces himself forward unless there's a reason to.  Incredible ball control, dribbling and vision.  Love Verratti.
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Post by Crimson Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:35 pm

Verratti all the way. I would say Thiago prob has better ball control and is a bit more creative minded but he gets a lot closer to goal than Marco usually does.

In every other regard Verratti for me is better. As for Marco having little defensive skills, I would say you need to watch him play this season for my mind defensively this season and for Italy he has been very good.

Forza Italia!
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:40 pm

Very impressive posts in this thread especially by Nick and Sports, credit to Gil for its inception and maintaining the integrity of the debate.

At THIS very stage? Thiago is the overall more superior footballer which does not come to a surprise given his almost two year gap with Marco.

Thiago excels over Verratti in areas regarding defensive skill, to which Verratti needs to work on. The latter screens the defence excellently yet his rash tackles, poor use of responsibility and lack of physical presence in defence has Thiago standing out as the more complete player.

Verratti though, is naturally actually a Trequartista, as to which is why he is so composed in tight spaces and shields the ball impeccably. The control he imposes upon the game along with the use of two feet (Thiago dominantly right-footed) to propel his scintillating visionary passes to any proponent on the field is mesmerizing at times as is his composure under pressure. His shooting is also excellent despite not a goal threat as his goal (on debut) for Italia versus Netherlands just showed his composure followed by the shot.

Thiago is a more finished product yet the propensity of talent that Verratti is displaying is scary as he has overcome his tactical deficiencies and turned into a very consistent product.  


Difficult comparing them as I would compare Gündogan more to Thiago given their all-rounded abilities while Verratti is a stand-out in what he does in his class.

Thiago for now, yet no doubt for me that Verratti will surpass the upper echelon levels that both will inevitably reach.

The quintessential heir to Xavi as I don't even want to hear a mention of Koke.
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:59 am

sportsczy wrote:there's no gloryhunting for goals or assists, which is exactly what you want from a CM.

I agreed with the rest of your post but this, on this I think verratti should be more creative sometimes. He has the ability to make space in the final third and play a defence splitting pass, I think he should do it more often, to go to the next level.

Also, on what you said on technique, I agree verratti is in better control in crowded spaces and when pressured, but thiago is more gifted at some things, like first touch and shot technique.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:54 am

Arquitescu wrote:Very impressive posts in this thread especially by Nick and Sports, credit to Gil for its inception and maintaining the integrity of the debate.

At THIS very stage? Thiago is the overall more superior footballer which does not come to a surprise given his almost two year gap with Marco.

Thiago excels over Verratti in areas regarding defensive skill, to which Verratti needs to work on. The latter screens the defence excellently yet his rash tackles, poor use of responsibility and lack of physical presence in defence has Thiago standing out as the more complete player.

Verratti though, is naturally actually a Trequartista, as to which is why he is so composed in tight spaces and shields the ball impeccably. The control he imposes upon the game along with the use of two feet (Thiago dominantly right-footed) to propel his scintillating visionary passes to any proponent on the field is mesmerizing at times as is his composure under pressure. His shooting is also excellent despite not a goal threat as his goal (on debut) for Italia versus Netherlands just showed his composure followed by the shot.

Thiago is a more finished product yet the propensity of talent that Verratti is displaying is scary as he has overcome his tactical deficiencies and turned into a very consistent product.  


Difficult comparing them as I would compare Gündogan more to Thiago given their all-rounded abilities while Verratti is a stand-out in what he does in his class.

Thiago for now, yet no doubt for me that Verratti will surpass the upper echelon levels that both will inevitably reach.

The quintessential heir to Xavi as I don't even want to hear a mention of Koke.
I am not sure that i am as willing as you are to say who is better, even now. What are we basing that off? abilities? performances? The sample to compare both is very small. For some masterclass that Thiago might have given vs freiburg, i can name you an equivalent for verratti in ligue 1. Have they become the crux of their teams in midfield yet? No i dont think so.

I hear the argument for completeness, but Pirlo was never the complete article, yet he dominated the game to unprecedented levels. that's how i see both of them, i think Verratti is going to find his niche, as that one of a kind midfield maestro who just establish control and dominance at levels that go beyond scoring and tackling. While Thiago, the less Pep will want to play him as somekind of Xavi 2.0, the better he will be. That's just not him, Thiago is a mediapunta, he wants to dribble, he wants to dribble, he wants to score. If you recall, during the last u21 tourney, he started in double pivot with Illarra and it just wasnt working. Then koke unleashed him and gave him freedom to do want he does best, that masterclass in final was what Thiago is supposed to be. Pep annoys me whenever he tries to play him so deep in midfield, it doesnt work for him.

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Post by Arquitecto Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:23 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:Very impressive posts in this thread especially by Nick and Sports, credit to Gil for its inception and maintaining the integrity of the debate.

At THIS very stage? Thiago is the overall more superior footballer which does not come to a surprise given his almost two year gap with Marco.

Thiago excels over Verratti in areas regarding defensive skill, to which Verratti needs to work on. The latter screens the defence excellently yet his rash tackles, poor use of responsibility and lack of physical presence in defence has Thiago standing out as the more complete player.

Verratti though, is naturally actually a Trequartista, as to which is why he is so composed in tight spaces and shields the ball impeccably. The control he imposes upon the game along with the use of two feet (Thiago dominantly right-footed) to propel his scintillating visionary passes to any proponent on the field is mesmerizing at times as is his composure under pressure. His shooting is also excellent despite not a goal threat as his goal (on debut) for Italia versus Netherlands just showed his composure followed by the shot.

Thiago is a more finished product yet the propensity of talent that Verratti is displaying is scary as he has overcome his tactical deficiencies and turned into a very consistent product.  


Difficult comparing them as I would compare Gündogan more to Thiago given their all-rounded abilities while Verratti is a stand-out in what he does in his class.

Thiago for now, yet no doubt for me that Verratti will surpass the upper echelon levels that both will inevitably reach.

The quintessential heir to Xavi as I don't even want to hear a mention of Koke.
I am not sure that i am as willing as you are to say who is better, even now. What are we basing that off? abilities? performances? The sample to compare both is very small. For some masterclass that Thiago might have given vs freiburg, i can name you an equivalent for verratti in ligue 1. Have they become the crux of their teams in midfield yet? No i dont think so.

I hear the argument for completeness, but Pirlo was never the complete article, yet he dominated the game to unprecedented levels. that's how i see both of them, i think Verratti is going to find his niche, as that one of a kind midfield maestro who just establish control and dominance at levels that go beyond scoring and tackling. While Thiago, the less Pep will want to play him as somekind of Xavi 2.0, the better he will be. That's just not him, Thiago is a mediapunta, he wants to dribble, he wants to dribble, he wants to score. If you recall, during the last u21 tourney, he started in double pivot with Illarra and it just wasnt working. Then koke unleashed him and gave him freedom to do want he does best, that masterclass in final was what Thiago is supposed to be. Pep annoys me whenever he tries to play him so deep in midfield, it doesnt work for him.


Excellent points.

The reason my comparison is in incongruity is due to the difficulty of comparing the players who have different roles in their varied semantic.

My point of Thiago's current superiority stems from how he contributes more than Verratti within all dimensions. Where? Defensively his presence is more felt despite Verratti's improved screening of the defence. His consistent goal threat despite Verratti's dangerous shots also present a more tangible threat along with his superior off the ball movement, something Verratti needs to improve given he is dominantly an on-ball player.

Deep? As evidenced by versus Arsenal Thiago does not possess the deep central positioning to navigate himself in the optimum open spaces as he is one to thrive within the pressure of tighter spaces to which he does not have to consistently calculate options in the open. Where Verrattti succeeds is his ability to play Trequartista and CM. Same thing with Pirlo who still excels in both roles along with having his defensive reading tremendously improved under Conte.

Predicament is which type of players will compliment each other as Motta is a vital component to release Verratti's preferred channels of passing while Thiago under too much responsibility tends to falter and does not elevate his performances when the tide is against his cause, sort of like Oezil.

Again it would be difficult to compare them as Thiago's moments of late runs followed by his goals are in stark contrast to Verratti's display of exquisite control over Leverkusen and Marseille as the most apt way to compare them would be to measure the impact on has for another.

That would depend if you prefer Thiago's all-rounded approach or Verratti's control of the game and difference made by his choices of passes and dribbles to create space for the midfield.




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Post by sportsczy Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:30 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:
sportsczy wrote:there's no gloryhunting for goals or assists, which is exactly what you want from a CM.

I agreed with the rest of your post but this, on this I think verratti should be more creative sometimes. He has the ability to make space in the final third and play a defence splitting pass, I think he should do it more often, to go to the next level.

Also, on what you said on technique, I agree verratti is in better control in crowded spaces and when pressured, but thiago is more gifted at some things, like first touch and shot technique.
Then you're a B2B or CAM, not a CM. The shape of the team is everything in footy as well as spacing... you can't have a CM getting caught too far up front.

Also, PSG want to give absolute freedom to the fullbacks to attack without any hesitation... and thery're both very advanced in almost every attack. That means both Motta and Verratti must stay further back to recover with the CBs. You MUST always have 4 players in good defensive recovery position. Matuidi is the one that goes B2B for PSG. So the recovery shape by design is 2 CBs, Motta and Verratti. You will see an additional mid jump in, but only if there's an opportunity and only if he sees that one of the fullbacks has remained in good recovery position.
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Post by Killer Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:24 am

The Franchise wrote:If anything Verratti is more like Xavi than Pirlo, and more like Xavi than even Thiago.

Anyway, Thiago. The difference I see is defensive skills. Thiago has some, Verratti has very little.

Verrati has much more.

some stat from who scored:
Verrati 53 tacles, 34 total intercepetions, 41 fouls.
Thiago 23 tacles, 19 tot intercepetions, 8 fouls.


Verrati is easy more better in defense.

Verrati for me is more skillful, he is like a hybrid of Iniesta, Pirlo and Xavi

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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:25 pm

you post like a hybrid of harmonica, xcx and khaled
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Post by Casciavit Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:32 pm

I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but I've always thought that the closest player Verratti plays like in terms of style is David Pizarro, not Xavi nor Pirlo. Although he does he share similarities with Xavi and Pirlo as well.

Anyways on topic, both are great players and will have fantastic futures ahead of them. Thiago is better now though as he's more developed compared to Verratti.

I also share the opinion that Verratti's defensive skills have improved A LOT, this season compared to last season.
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Post by harhar11 Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:17 pm

Killer wrote:
The Franchise wrote:If anything Verratti is more like Xavi than Pirlo, and more like Xavi than even Thiago.

Anyway, Thiago. The difference I see is defensive skills. Thiago has some, Verratti has very little.

Verrati has much more.

some stat from who scored:
Verrati 53 tacles, 34 total intercepetions, 41 fouls.
Thiago 23 tacles, 19 tot intercepetions, 8 fouls.


Verrati is easy more better in defense.

Verrati for me is more skillful, he is like a hybrid of Iniesta, Pirlo and Xavi

According to Espn, Thiago has played 11 games in the league while Veratti has played 21(don't know how many games they have started/sub). That might be why he has better stat so far, no?

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Post by Killer Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:25 pm

harhar11 wrote:
Killer wrote:
The Franchise wrote:If anything Verratti is more like Xavi than Pirlo, and more like Xavi than even Thiago.

Anyway, Thiago. The difference I see is defensive skills. Thiago has some, Verratti has very little.

Verrati has much more.

some stat from who scored:
Verrati 53 tacles, 34 total intercepetions, 41 fouls.
Thiago 23 tacles, 19 tot intercepetions, 8 fouls.


Verrati is easy more better in defense.

Verrati for me is more skillful, he is like a hybrid of Iniesta, Pirlo and Xavi

According to Espn, Thiago has played 11 games in the league while Veratti has played 21(don't know how many games they have started/sub). That might be why he has better stat so far, no?

also in other seasons Verrati is better. Verratti is simply more aggressive.

Verratti reminds me a lot more Iniesta than Pirlo, Pirlo is not a great dribbler, Verrati is. Pirlo is not even good in defense, is much slower than Verrati.




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Post by Killer Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:33 pm

Verratti is the new Xavi. He is exactly the copy of Xavi. Pure class  :wub: 
Barcelona should buy him is the only one who could replace Xavi in Barca, and he is absolutely perfect for the Tiki Taka.

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Post by Kick Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:37 am

I am not a fan of Verratti, he lacks a lot in big games.
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:39 am

He was absolutely outstanding during PSG's clash with Barcelona two years ago, the only real disappointment thus far has been his second leg against Chelsea last season.
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Post by Kick Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:48 am

Perhaps it's just the games I have seen then.
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