Re: Pepe vs Vermaelen

by guest7 Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:32 pm

Pepe's Accurate longballs per game: 6.7
Vermaelens: 3.1

Both are league only.

stats from whoscored.com

by Mr Nick09 Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:38 pm

Crimson wrote:

Pepe all day everyday, oh and to all the idiots claiming Pepe is a thug look at that he fouls less per game than Verm.....

Oh give us a break with your statistic, it's not the average of fouls per game that matters in that case, it's the violence of the faults. I bet there is no statistic to measure that

by DuringTheWar Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:35 am

Sina wrote:Vermaelen played one third of those games as a Left Back
that affects his stats passing. shots blocked ETC
For example against Bolton as a LB he had 67% passing accuracy
vs Everton in CB with 86%PA

Obviously the silly little matter of context is irrelevent when using stats to prove one player is better than another. Either that or some people here are just happy to take them at face value when it suits them

by Lord Hades Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:16 am

i am sorry violence of the fouls? so you jusge what happened in two games out of 50 as a reliable measure of a player's attribute rather than the whole season which crimson's statistics provide?

by The Verminator Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:46 pm

Lord Hades wrote:i am sorry violence of the fouls? so you jusge what happened in two games out of 50 as a reliable measure of a player's attribute rather than the whole season which crimson's statistics provide?

Tbf he has had a little bit of a violent past....

by Le Samourai Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:52 pm

Pepe really lacks tactical sense.

by Lex Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:03 pm

Vermaelen isn't an unstable psychopath with a face only a black hole could love

by Mr Nick09 Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:06 pm

Lord Hades wrote:i am sorry violence of the fouls? so you jusge what happened in two games out of 50 as a reliable measure of a player's attribute rather than the whole season which crimson's statistics provide?

No i judge what happens in a consistent basis and in some pressure cooked games, he is quite violent and aggressive in his interventions.

And to be correct, we played barca 10 times. Remember Lyon? or Atletico last year? Valencia? he can be a bully sometimes.

anyway, this thread is not dedicated to his aggressiveness, i just want to know how both compare.

by Lord Hades Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:34 pm

yeah so why are people talking about those aggresive moments then.. sure vermaelen handles himself better than pepe . but i though this was about their quality in terms of the football aspect ?

by Mr Nick09 Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:41 pm

Lord Hades wrote:yeah so why are people talking about those aggresive moments then.. sure vermaelen handles himself better than pepe . but i though this was about their quality in terms of the football aspect ?

i just reacted to a post Crimson made, and you asked for more explanation.

by Onyx Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:11 pm

Pepe's overrated in terms of FIFA.

by REWB Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:45 pm

Crimson wrote:Pepe - LigaBBVA 2011/2012
2.2 tackles pg
2 interceptions ppg
4.2 clearences pg
0.9 times dribbled pg
0.6 blocked shots pg
1.1 fouls pg
51.3 passes pg @ 85.4%

Varmaelens - BPL 2011/2012
1.7 tackles pg
2.1 interceptions pg
3.9 clearences pg
0.1 dribbled pg
0.5 blocked shots pg
1.3 fouls pg
50 passes pg @ 84.4%

--------------------------------------------

The only category where Verm is better than Pepe in defense is being dribbled less and thats prob only because theres hardly a single decent dribbler in the BPL

The other stat is interceptions and it's 2.1 per game to Pepe's 2, hardly a difference worth mentioning.

Pepe all day everyday, oh and to all the idiots claiming Pepe is a thug look at that he fouls less per game than Verm.....

one of the most pointless and stupid statistical analyses EVER. first of all verm has only played like half the season, and only 3/4 of that as a cb as he was playing fullback. ridiculous statistics

btw verm is better imo, i see too many mistakes and vulnerabilities in pepe's game whenever i watch him play. thats why rm fans even want to sell him.

by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:53 am

Only idiot fans want to sell Pepe lmao

BTW Nick I was reacting to people calling Pepe a thug when he fouls less than Verm ffs

Sure he may be dirty but not more so than a ton of CB's out there even Ramos is as bad if not worse ffs

Verm playing as a fullback generally means it would add to his tackles and interceptions per game, seem it hasn't and that Pepe is still better no matter what.

Pepe I believe is one of the absolute best CB's in the game and is good enough to step in as a DM as well and perform just as well.

If people don't believe it they don't know football plain and simple.

Also Pepe is a starter in defense for one of the absolute best teams in the world atm, not only thaat but he is an integral part of keeping Madrid as one of the top 5 defenses in the world despite our attacking mentality.

Verm has the pleasure of playing for a team that only ever fights to be in the top four and nothing more, not hard to be a starter in defense for Arsenal ffs.

by Mr Nick09 Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:34 am

Crimson wrote:Only idiot fans want to sell Pepe lmao

BTW Nick I was reacting to people calling Pepe a thug when he fouls less than Verm ffs

Sure he may be dirty but not more so than a ton of CB's out there even Ramos is as bad if not worse ffs

Verm playing as a fullback generally means it would add to his tackles and interceptions per game, seem it hasn't and that Pepe is still better no matter what.

Pepe I believe is one of the absolute best CB's in the game and is good enough to step in as a DM as well and perform just as well.

If people don't believe it they don't know football plain and simple.

Also Pepe is a starter in defense for one of the absolute best teams in the world atm, not only thaat but he is an integral part of keeping Madrid as one of the top 5 defenses in the world despite our attacking mentality.

Verm has the pleasure of playing for a team that only ever fights to be in the top four and nothing more, not hard to be a starter in defense for Arsenal ffs.

Number of fouls has nothing to do with how violent a player is on the pitch lol. Not many CBs are as violent and aggressive as Pepe, no need to sugarcoat it, pepe is in a special category (among elite players of course).

I dont know why you would seek to belittle people's knowledge of the game because they would have a different opinion than yours.

The rambling about Pepe playing for Real Madrid, hence he must be amazing is a fallacy. Albiol was starting for us not so long ago...

Another fallacy is saying that Pepe's ability to play as a DM makes him a top notch defender. I doubt Vidic could play as a DM, yet he wipes the floor with Pepe.

A 3rd fallacy is saying that because Arsenal might not have a title winning squad, Vermaelen is not good enough. Respectfully, that's rubbish, because i can mention to you a player like Chiellini and his situation at Juventus...

There is very much debate to have in my opinion, that's why i am asking for people's opinion. Pepe is having one of his best season probably, but thankfully players arent rated over a single season.

by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:02 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Number of fouls has nothing to do with how violent a player is on the pitch lol. Not many CBs are as violent and aggressive as Pepe, no need to sugarcoat it, pepe is in a special category.

Really take a look around there are plenty of examples all over the place. Pepe just gets highlighted because of the Getafe incident and media attention the clasicos get.

I dont know why you would seek to belittle people's knowledge of the game because they would have a different opinion than yours.

Thinking Verm is better than Pepe is pretty idiotic no matter how you look at it.....

The rambling about Pepe playing for Real Madrid, hence he must be amazing is a fallacy. Albiol was starting for us not so long ago...

If you bothered to read what I wrote which seems to me you didn't, you would see I mentioned Real Madrid's defensive record and being one of the best teams in the world. Tell me were we ever 10 or 6 points above Barcelona and doing this well in the UCL with Albiol being a constant starter? No, didn't think so, use your brain ffs.

Another fallacy is saying that Pepe's ability to play as a DM makes him a top notch defender. I doubt Vidic could play as a DM, yet he wipes the floor with Pepe.

Never said that, again with your failure to read, I was just mentioning he can step into DM and perform just as well another notch in his belt to the player he is.

A 3rd fallacy is saying that because Arsenal might not have a title winning squad, Vermaelen is not good enough. Respectfully, that's rubbish, because i can mention to you a player like Chiellini and his situation at Juventus...

Chiellini is destroying with Juventus atm never seen Verm even get close to doing what Chiellini is at Juventus. Verm also hasn't had to deal with all the political problems that the club Juventus has had to go through over the last 5 years ffs. Terrible example.

There is very much debate to have in my opinion, that's why i am asking for people's opinion. Pepe is having a his better season probably, but thankfully players arent rated over a single season.

That's your opinion don't presume to make them for me.

The way I see it is Pepe is miles better, Pepe was a beast for Porto, absolutely bossed for us, dominates for Porto, his performances in Euro 2008 are worth a mention for sure, not to mention his involvement in Portugal's international defensive record.

What has Verm done? Be poor for a very talented Belgium team? Win a couple of trophies in one of the worst leagues in Europe? And helped Arsenal win, what exactly? Oh right make the top 4?

by REWB Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:39 am

Crimson wrote:Only idiot fans want to sell Pepe lmao

BTW Nick I was reacting to people calling Pepe a thug when he fouls less than Verm ffs

Sure he may be dirty but not more so than a ton of CB's out there even Ramos is as bad if not worse ffs

Verm playing as a fullback generally means it would add to his tackles and interceptions per game, seem it hasn't and that Pepe is still better no matter what.

Pepe I believe is one of the absolute best CB's in the game and is good enough to step in as a DM as well and perform just as well.

If people don't believe it they don't know football plain and simple.

Also Pepe is a starter in defense for one of the absolute best teams in the world atm, not only thaat but he is an integral part of keeping Madrid as one of the top 5 defenses in the world despite our attacking mentality.

Verm has the pleasure of playing for a team that only ever fights to be in the top four and nothing more, not hard to be a starter in defense for Arsenal ffs.

its not easy to perform week in week out the epl you moron, just because he plays for arsenal he is looked down upon, and anyone who plays for madrid is automatically better. the arrogance in that statement :facepalm:

and you wonder why people hate madrid fans like you?

by Mr Nick09 Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:48 am

Crimson wrote:
Really take a look around there are plenty of examples all over the place. Pepe just gets highlighted because of the Getafe incident and media attention the clasicos get.

Thinking Verm is better than Pepe is pretty idiotic no matter how you look at it.....

If you bothered to read what I wrote which seems to me you didn't, you would see I mentioned Real Madrid's defensive record and being one of the best teams in the world. Tell me were we ever 10 or 6 points above Barcelona and doing this well in the UCL with Albiol being a constant starter? No, didn't think so, use your brain ffs.

I mentioned games like Atletico madrid or even Lyon because i have seen those behaviors from Pepe elsewhere. He gets highlighted because of the clasicos sure, but it's also a general truth.

Hammering that we have a great defensive record doesnt mean that we have the best defenders in Europe. I guess Marcela has become a top notch defender now, stopping everything and anything on his flank. If i follow your rather poor logic, Bayern Munich is in similar situation (even better record if my numbers are correct), so that would make Badstuber and Boateng, the new Ferdinand and Vidic of world football...right, that makes a lot of sense.

Crimson wrote:Never said that, again with your failure to read, I was just mentioning he can step into DM and perform just as well another notch in his belt to the player he is.

We are discussing who is the better CB, his ability to perform as a DM is completely irrelevant. you shouldnt have brought it up in the first place.

Crimson wrote:Chiellini is destroying with Juventus atm never seen Verm even get close to doing what Chiellini is at Juventus. Verm also hasn't had to deal with all the political problems that the club Juventus has had to go through over the last 5 years ffs. Terrible example.

You made a rather poor argument that Vermaelen playing for a team that cant challenge for the title like Arsenal, didnt deserve to be compared to Pepe because it's not difficult to start for Arsenal. And i responded by mentioning a player like Chiellini who hasnt been competing for the title for a while, and played for a rather lackluster Juventus side while maintaining his world class credentials. What the hell do I care about Juventus situation, i just used the same logic you did to demonstrate how it fails.

That's your opinion don't presume to make them for me.

The way I see it is Pepe is miles better, Pepe was a beast for Porto, absolutely bossed for us, dominates for Porto, his performances in Euro 2008 are worth a mention for sure, not to mention his involvement in Portugal's international defensive record.

What has Verm done? Be poor for a very talented Belgium team? Win a couple of trophies in one of the worst leagues in Europe? And helped Arsenal win, what exactly? Oh right make the top 4?

You know what, you are right. That's your opinion and I was just looking to see if you could argue it.

But there you go just listing the trophies they have won in their club careers, as if it bears any relevance in this topic.

I am not actually surprised anyway, for someone who draw so much for random and useless stats to justifyy everything and anything it was expected.

You wrote a lot of lines, but ultimately not even once you tried to draw a sensible comparison between both, maybe we should go back to that.

by Swanhends Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:01 am

Raptorgunner wrote:

Gervinho's hairline is like the freaking horizon ffs...

by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:02 am

Well I mentioned in terms before how I thought Pepe was better.

Let me break it down more clearly for those that don't understand.

The only area in which I feel Verm is better than Pepe is in the air.

Taking the ball of a player, Pepe wins hands down.

Intercepting the ball and ability to take the ball forward, Pepe wins hands down.

Clearing the ball and long ball ability again I would say Pepe wins.

Reading the play Pepe again.

Verm is better at attacking set pieces and as for defending set pieces I would say it's pretty even.

I would say Pepe is more aggressive and plays with more heart but does not give up the ball due to careless fouls as much as people think. or as much as Verm.

How many penalties has our defense given up or Pepe for that matter?

Pepe had a pretty serious injury but all in all I would say Verm is much more injury prone.

In what area is Verm seriously better than Pepe apart from attacking set pieces? I can't see it.

by Tomasso Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:14 am

Pepe is a top center-back, disciplinary issues aside.

Vermaelan is an average center-back.

by Lex Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:45 pm

Tomasso wrote:Pepe is a top center-back, disciplinary issues aside

Don't you just love same sentence contradictions? Laughing

by Le Samourai Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:56 pm

I disagree with reading the play Crim.He relies on Ramos alot for that.

by FalcaoPunch Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:11 pm

Pepe falls way to easily against smaller opponents.

by FalcaoPunch Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:12 pm

I personally think pepe is TERRIBLE at taking the ball forward. All he does is hoof it.

by sportsczy Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:28 pm

Pepe is a much better defender and Vermaelen is much better with the ball and going forward. Just depends what you're looking for... if you need a defender first and could care less what the CB does with the ball once it's recovered, you go with Pepe all day long. If you're looking for a good overall CB, you go with Vermaelen all day long.

The CB pairing, fullbacks, team system and league style are all important factors. It's very difficult to be an aggressive defender in La Liga because they call very soft fouls. It doesn't excuse Pepe's craziness at times... but i actually think he's very ill suited to the league he plays in and still doing very well.

Personally, i'd take Pepe. As most know, i prefer defenders who excel at defending first. As long as they're decent with getting the ball forward... the rest is a bonus to me.

by Lex Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:35 pm

You guys act like Verm is shit at defending Laughing

by Sponsored content