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Post by Dante Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:05 pm

Potential , you do that Twisted Evil

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:08 pm

baresi wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:You think you can keep a clean sheet against 12 goals in 7 CL matches Messi? hmm

Risky strategy to say the least.
The only strategy available I think. Razz
The best strategy against Barca is to press them. If you sit in the back and wait for them to make a mistake and capitalize on it you will end up losing. You can still rely on counters, but you cannot allow them space.
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Post by Dante Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:20 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
baresi wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:You think you can keep a clean sheet against 12 goals in 7 CL matches Messi? hmm

Risky strategy to say the least.
The only strategy available I think. Razz
The best strategy against Barca is to press them. If you sit in the back and wait for them to make a mistake and capitalize on it you will end up losing. You can still rely on counters, but you cannot allow them space.

true. Another good strategy against them is long balls and switch of play.

Though , i agree that pressing them may be more effective , it will lead to them making their play even more effective.
Unless our players are on top form , we will get hurt from the tiki taka if we press too much without results.
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Post by Potential Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Potential wrote:

My reaction to Barcelona, I'll be posting in this section I can't stay away from you guys <3

B.T.W: I'd put my money on Torres scoring tonight banana

:coffee:

I'll create the matchday thread.
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Post by Ganso Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:43 pm

potentialdamus :bow:
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Post by Ganso Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:49 pm

giancarlo:Now I know for a fact that this draw was fixed.... ugh.

Well at least we got to the quarterfinals. And why can't we ever have the home leg after the away leg? Fixed, fixed, fixed, fixed, fixed. The CL means nothing anymore.

We did give them a run for the money in the group stages (4-5 over the two games... which could have been different if Robinho finished), but this is ridiculous. We won't be distracted from our scudetto run though... as some here would want


negative as always :bow:
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Post by Milan31 Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:38 pm

welcome back Potential drinking
If we can put up a fight against them like we did in the group stages, we have a shot at this! It will be very hard to get a clean sheet so we have to press, waiting for them to make a mistake can cost us badly. Oh, and no one can afford to miss sitters.
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Post by Ganso Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:50 pm

yeah,Nocerino and Robinho will have to finish off their chances
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Post by Spooony Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:03 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
baresi wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:You think you can keep a clean sheet against 12 goals in 7 CL matches Messi? hmm

Risky strategy to say the least.
The only strategy available I think. Razz
The best strategy against Barca is to press them. If you sit in the back and wait for them to make a mistake and capitalize on it you will end up losing. You can still rely on counters, but you cannot allow them space.
You press them and this happens

Real Madrid that also likes to press the opposition, the majority of possession tends to be concentrated just behind the center line in Real Madrid’s half (area marked red below). In that zone, midfielders, especially central attacking play-makers are most comfortable in possession and Guardiola understands this.
Barcelona it is - Page 4 Real-mdrid-image

Do you see the problem in that picture. Higuain and Di Maria in that picture likes to play near their opponents penalty area. Now they are dragged out into a unfamiliar zone and they spend almost 70 percent of the game in that familiar zone which means they playing out of possession effectively.

Forget about Messi, forget about to press or not to press. Remember this time to track Xavi because there is where Milan failed in the previous meeting as well as Busquets/Mascherano CB combo who is shaky when better sides have a go at them. Both of their box play is awful and Pato even won headers of Busquets who is a wopping four inches taller than him. And Boatengs goal was a direct result and proof of their poor box play as Mascherano headed the ball straight to him. Playing two defensive midfielders in central defence works well when you dominate cause then they play in their usual zone (around the halfway line). However, they seemed unsettled when Milan came at them and at times struggled with positioning. This was exploited in the previous game by Pato’s pace and then again by Zlatan setting up Robiniho who missed a easy chance. Minutes later, he had made it 1-1. Poor positioning and loose marking from Mascherano and Busquets was the reason for conceding on both occasions.

They were so hanged up on stopping Messi they thought it was a good idea not to track Xavi. Messi through ball Xavi Penalty. One would have thought the Milan coach who have picked this up but he did not. The third goal Messi through ball Xavi again he tugged it away. Did you stop Messi? He did not score yes but 2 assists. So the answer is no.
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Post by Dante Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:25 pm

Spooony wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
baresi wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:You think you can keep a clean sheet against 12 goals in 7 CL matches Messi? hmm

Risky strategy to say the least.
The only strategy available I think. Razz
The best strategy against Barca is to press them. If you sit in the back and wait for them to make a mistake and capitalize on it you will end up losing. You can still rely on counters, but you cannot allow them space.
You press them and this happens

Real Madrid that also likes to press the opposition, the majority of possession tends to be concentrated just behind the center line in Real Madrid’s half (area marked red below). In that zone, midfielders, especially central attacking play-makers are most comfortable in possession and Guardiola understands this.
Barcelona it is - Page 4 Real-mdrid-image

Do you see the problem in that picture. Higuain and Di Maria in that picture likes to play near their opponents penalty area. Now they are dragged out into a unfamiliar zone and they spend almost 70 percent of the game in that familiar zone which means they playing out of possession effectively.

Forget about Messi, forget about to press or not to press. Remember this time to track Xavi because there is where Milan failed in the previous meeting as well as Busquets/Mascherano CB combo who is shaky when better sides have a go at them. Both of their box play is awful and Pato even won headers of Busquets who is a wopping four inches taller than him. And Boatengs goal was a direct result and proof of their poor box play as Mascherano headed the ball straight to him. Playing two defensive midfielders in central defence works well when you dominate cause then they play in their usual zone (around the halfway line). However, they seemed unsettled when Milan came at them and at times struggled with positioning. This was exploited in the previous game by Pato’s pace and then again by Zlatan setting up Robiniho who missed a easy chance. Minutes later, he had made it 1-1. Poor positioning and loose marking from Mascherano and Busquets was the reason for conceding on both occasions.

They were so hanged up on stopping Messi they thought it was a good idea not to track Xavi. Messi through ball Xavi Penalty. One would have thought the Milan coach who have picked this up but he did not. The third goal Messi through ball Xavi again he tugged it away. Did you stop Messi? He did not score yes but 2 assists. So the answer is no.

If Guardiola plays 2 dmf's as cb in against Milan , it's not Milan's problem who exploited that. Also , we had a hard time with Messi but the penalty was a fluke , it's laughable the ref gave it.

Next time at San Siro , it's you who need to learn from mistakes more than we do. Milan played their game from start to finish and Barcelona won with a penalty which wasn't so fair. Many , many refs wouldn't give that a penalty.

As for our goals , you think it's just your poor box display ? I suppose this is an excuse heh ? Truth is , especially in GOATeng's goal you could do nothing about it .

Even Abidal who's your basic LB and he's very good defensively speaking , stared the abyss when Goateng passed him by like a statue.

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Post by Spooony Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:45 pm

Dante13 wrote:
Spooony wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
baresi wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:You think you can keep a clean sheet against 12 goals in 7 CL matches Messi? hmm

Risky strategy to say the least.
The only strategy available I think. Razz
The best strategy against Barca is to press them. If you sit in the back and wait for them to make a mistake and capitalize on it you will end up losing. You can still rely on counters, but you cannot allow them space.
You press them and this happens

Real Madrid that also likes to press the opposition, the majority of possession tends to be concentrated just behind the center line in Real Madrid’s half (area marked red below). In that zone, midfielders, especially central attacking play-makers are most comfortable in possession and Guardiola understands this.
Barcelona it is - Page 4 Real-mdrid-image

Do you see the problem in that picture. Higuain and Di Maria in that picture likes to play near their opponents penalty area. Now they are dragged out into a unfamiliar zone and they spend almost 70 percent of the game in that familiar zone which means they playing out of possession effectively.

Forget about Messi, forget about to press or not to press. Remember this time to track Xavi because there is where Milan failed in the previous meeting as well as Busquets/Mascherano CB combo who is shaky when better sides have a go at them. Both of their box play is awful and Pato even won headers of Busquets who is a wopping four inches taller than him. And Boatengs goal was a direct result and proof of their poor box play as Mascherano headed the ball straight to him. Playing two defensive midfielders in central defence works well when you dominate cause then they play in their usual zone (around the halfway line). However, they seemed unsettled when Milan came at them and at times struggled with positioning. This was exploited in the previous game by Pato’s pace and then again by Zlatan setting up Robiniho who missed a easy chance. Minutes later, he had made it 1-1. Poor positioning and loose marking from Mascherano and Busquets was the reason for conceding on both occasions.

They were so hanged up on stopping Messi they thought it was a good idea not to track Xavi. Messi through ball Xavi Penalty. One would have thought the Milan coach who have picked this up but he did not. The third goal Messi through ball Xavi again he tugged it away. Did you stop Messi? He did not score yes but 2 assists. So the answer is no.

If Guardiola plays 2 dmf's as cb in San Siro , it's not Milan's problem who exploited that. Also , we had a hard time with Messi but the penalty was a fluke , it's laughable the ref gave it.

Next time at San Siro , it's you who need to learn from mistakes more than we do. Milan played their game from start to finish and Barcelona won with a penalty which wasn't so fair. Many , many refs wouldn't give that a penalty.

As for our goals , you think it's just your poor box display ? I suppose this is an excuse heh ? Truth is , especially in GOATeng's goal you could do nothing about it .

Even Abidal who's your basic LB and he's very good defensively speaking , stared the abyss when Goateng passed him by like a statue.

Oh yes he scored a brilliant goal no dispute about that. But how did he end up with the ball? A Mascherano header gave him the ball on the edge of his own box to a opposing player. That is awful defending and could have been avoided if it was a CB playing in a zone he is comfortable in. Never mind the penalty if it was one or not but the fact that 2 Messi through balls found a unmarked Xavi in space in a dangerous position. I do not know if you know the rules of leaving players unmarked but the aim is if the opposition has a free man the further away from goal he is the better> Normally sides playing 3 CB has the 3 CB free and it does not create such a problem as having a guy like Xavi running free for 90 min.

Then the other hand Pep was busy with a transformational change and the players was still getting used to it. Do not think by one bit I say Milan has no chance or anything like that I just merely stated what they did wrong in the first two games. I think they paid too much attention to Messi and tracking him that they got pulled out of shape leaving space for Xavi not once but twice to run into.

Also Sanchez is a gem of a player. Thx to his time in Italy he does brilliantly tracking back and stop Aquilani playing the ball forward. We can discuss and talk all we want but Milan have one problem. The Milan midfield shape is more suited to counter-attacking or controlling the middle rather than chasing a goals.

Also playing the pressing game you need to defend high up the park. The Milan CB are not the fastest there is and Bayern Leverkusen tried it and Messi made a mockery of their high line
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Post by Potential Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:50 pm

Spooony wrote:
Dante13 wrote:
Spooony wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
baresi wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:You think you can keep a clean sheet against 12 goals in 7 CL matches Messi? hmm

Risky strategy to say the least.
The only strategy available I think. Razz
The best strategy against Barca is to press them. If you sit in the back and wait for them to make a mistake and capitalize on it you will end up losing. You can still rely on counters, but you cannot allow them space.
You press them and this happens

Real Madrid that also likes to press the opposition, the majority of possession tends to be concentrated just behind the center line in Real Madrid’s half (area marked red below). In that zone, midfielders, especially central attacking play-makers are most comfortable in possession and Guardiola understands this.
Barcelona it is - Page 4 Real-mdrid-image

Do you see the problem in that picture. Higuain and Di Maria in that picture likes to play near their opponents penalty area. Now they are dragged out into a unfamiliar zone and they spend almost 70 percent of the game in that familiar zone which means they playing out of possession effectively.

Forget about Messi, forget about to press or not to press. Remember this time to track Xavi because there is where Milan failed in the previous meeting as well as Busquets/Mascherano CB combo who is shaky when better sides have a go at them. Both of their box play is awful and Pato even won headers of Busquets who is a wopping four inches taller than him. And Boatengs goal was a direct result and proof of their poor box play as Mascherano headed the ball straight to him. Playing two defensive midfielders in central defence works well when you dominate cause then they play in their usual zone (around the halfway line). However, they seemed unsettled when Milan came at them and at times struggled with positioning. This was exploited in the previous game by Pato’s pace and then again by Zlatan setting up Robiniho who missed a easy chance. Minutes later, he had made it 1-1. Poor positioning and loose marking from Mascherano and Busquets was the reason for conceding on both occasions.

They were so hanged up on stopping Messi they thought it was a good idea not to track Xavi. Messi through ball Xavi Penalty. One would have thought the Milan coach who have picked this up but he did not. The third goal Messi through ball Xavi again he tugged it away. Did you stop Messi? He did not score yes but 2 assists. So the answer is no.

If Guardiola plays 2 dmf's as cb in San Siro , it's not Milan's problem who exploited that. Also , we had a hard time with Messi but the penalty was a fluke , it's laughable the ref gave it.

Next time at San Siro , it's you who need to learn from mistakes more than we do. Milan played their game from start to finish and Barcelona won with a penalty which wasn't so fair. Many , many refs wouldn't give that a penalty.

As for our goals , you think it's just your poor box display ? I suppose this is an excuse heh ? Truth is , especially in GOATeng's goal you could do nothing about it .

Even Abidal who's your basic LB and he's very good defensively speaking , stared the abyss when Goateng passed him by like a statue.

Oh yes he scored a brilliant goal no dispute about that. But how did he end up with the ball? A Mascherano header gave him the ball on the edge of his own box to a opposing player. That is awful defending and could have been avoided if it was a CB playing in a zone he is comfortable in. Never mind the penalty if it was one or not but the fact that 2 Messi through balls found a unmarked Xavi in space in a dangerous position. I do not know if you know the rules of leaving players unmarked but the aim is if the opposition has a free man the further away from goal he is the better> Normally sides playing 3 CB has the 3 CB free and it does not create such a problem as having a guy like Xavi running free for 90 min.

Then the other hand Pep was busy with a transformational change and the players was still getting used to it. Do not think by one bit I say Milan has no chance or anything like that I just merely stated what they did wrong in the first two games. I think they paid too much attention to Messi and tracking him that they got pulled out of shape leaving space for Xavi not once but twice to run into.

Also Sanchez is a gem of a player. Thx to his time in Italy he does brilliantly tracking back and stop Aquilani playing the ball forward. We can discuss and talk all we want but Milan have one problem. The Milan midfield shape is more suited to counter-attacking or controlling the middle rather than chasing a goals.

Also playing the pressing game you need to defend high up the park. The Milan CB are not the fastest there is and Bayern Leverkusen tried it and Messi made a mockery of their high line

You're comparing Nesta and Silva to some unknowns, plus if Abate is match fit he can outrun your fastest player twice over with no effort.
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Post by Dante Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:03 pm

Spooony wrote:
Dante13 wrote:
Spooony wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
baresi wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:You think you can keep a clean sheet against 12 goals in 7 CL matches Messi? hmm

Risky strategy to say the least.
The only strategy available I think. Razz
The best strategy against Barca is to press them. If you sit in the back and wait for them to make a mistake and capitalize on it you will end up losing. You can still rely on counters, but you cannot allow them space.
You press them and this happens

Real Madrid that also likes to press the opposition, the majority of possession tends to be concentrated just behind the center line in Real Madrid’s half (area marked red below). In that zone, midfielders, especially central attacking play-makers are most comfortable in possession and Guardiola understands this.
Barcelona it is - Page 4 Real-mdrid-image

Do you see the problem in that picture. Higuain and Di Maria in that picture likes to play near their opponents penalty area. Now they are dragged out into a unfamiliar zone and they spend almost 70 percent of the game in that familiar zone which means they playing out of possession effectively.

Forget about Messi, forget about to press or not to press. Remember this time to track Xavi because there is where Milan failed in the previous meeting as well as Busquets/Mascherano CB combo who is shaky when better sides have a go at them. Both of their box play is awful and Pato even won headers of Busquets who is a wopping four inches taller than him. And Boatengs goal was a direct result and proof of their poor box play as Mascherano headed the ball straight to him. Playing two defensive midfielders in central defence works well when you dominate cause then they play in their usual zone (around the halfway line). However, they seemed unsettled when Milan came at them and at times struggled with positioning. This was exploited in the previous game by Pato’s pace and then again by Zlatan setting up Robiniho who missed a easy chance. Minutes later, he had made it 1-1. Poor positioning and loose marking from Mascherano and Busquets was the reason for conceding on both occasions.

They were so hanged up on stopping Messi they thought it was a good idea not to track Xavi. Messi through ball Xavi Penalty. One would have thought the Milan coach who have picked this up but he did not. The third goal Messi through ball Xavi again he tugged it away. Did you stop Messi? He did not score yes but 2 assists. So the answer is no.

If Guardiola plays 2 dmf's as cb in San Siro , it's not Milan's problem who exploited that. Also , we had a hard time with Messi but the penalty was a fluke , it's laughable the ref gave it.

Next time at San Siro , it's you who need to learn from mistakes more than we do. Milan played their game from start to finish and Barcelona won with a penalty which wasn't so fair. Many , many refs wouldn't give that a penalty.

As for our goals , you think it's just your poor box display ? I suppose this is an excuse heh ? Truth is , especially in GOATeng's goal you could do nothing about it .

Even Abidal who's your basic LB and he's very good defensively speaking , stared the abyss when Goateng passed him by like a statue.

Oh yes he scored a brilliant goal no dispute about that. But how did he end up with the ball? A Mascherano header gave him the ball on the edge of his own box to a opposing player. That is awful defending and could have been avoided if it was a CB playing in a zone he is comfortable in. Never mind the penalty if it was one or not but the fact that 2 Messi through balls found a unmarked Xavi in space in a dangerous position. I do not know if you know the rules of leaving players unmarked but the aim is if the opposition has a free man the further away from goal he is the better> Normally sides playing 3 CB has the 3 CB free and it does not create such a problem as having a guy like Xavi running free for 90 min.

Then the other hand Pep was busy with a transformational change and the players was still getting used to it. Do not think by one bit I say Milan has no chance or anything like that I just merely stated what they did wrong in the first two games. I think they paid too much attention to Messi and tracking him that they got pulled out of shape leaving space for Xavi not once but twice to run into.

Also Sanchez is a gem of a player. Thx to his time in Italy he does brilliantly tracking back and stop Aquilani playing the ball forward. We can discuss and talk all we want but Milan have one problem. The Milan midfield shape is more suited to counter-attacking or controlling the middle rather than chasing a goals.

Also playing the pressing game you need to defend high up the park. The Milan CB are not the fastest there is and Bayern Leverkusen tried it and Messi made a mockery of their high line

ok ,that's all good and nice , Mash is not the best CB . Now , go watch the replay again because he doesn't do what you say, "awful defending". He did what all CBs would do there , he got the ball out of the box. You clearly don't remember how high and fast Boateng got his leg there , just to take control of the ball.
It was a goal of brilliance , not a defender's mistake , you like that or not.

I understand everything you say and i can't say i disagree with the high lines or about what you say on Messi.Though about Messi , he's Messi what can anyone do? We had to give more attention there than usuall.

The thing i disagree completely with is , that transformational change you say. Can you explain more?
Because i am pretty sure you played the 4-3-3 like always Smile
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Post by baresi Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:20 pm

Pressing is the last thing we need to do, containing and closing spaces, and using our mid fielders to double team would be the best option imo, what I mean is our DM pairs with the side MFer to double team depends on where the ball is, if the ball on the right he covers the right with the RM and the LM moves to the middle, if the ball is on the left he moves to the left with the LM and the RM moves to the middle. But pressing Barca has DISASTER DISASTER DISASTER written all over it, one mistake and our defense rolls down like domino stones.

Edit last not least


Last edited by baresi on Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Ganso Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:23 pm

i think we should do like in the group stages,Boa-Ibra-Robinho press,midfield sits back and defend,Nocerino HAS to mark alves and Xavi at the same time
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Post by Spooony Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:30 pm

Potential wrote:
Spooony wrote:
Dante13 wrote:
Spooony wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
baresi wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:You think you can keep a clean sheet against 12 goals in 7 CL matches Messi? hmm

Risky strategy to say the least.
The only strategy available I think. Razz
The best strategy against Barca is to press them. If you sit in the back and wait for them to make a mistake and capitalize on it you will end up losing. You can still rely on counters, but you cannot allow them space.
You press them and this happens

Real Madrid that also likes to press the opposition, the majority of possession tends to be concentrated just behind the center line in Real Madrid’s half (area marked red below). In that zone, midfielders, especially central attacking play-makers are most comfortable in possession and Guardiola understands this.
Barcelona it is - Page 4 Real-mdrid-image

Do you see the problem in that picture. Higuain and Di Maria in that picture likes to play near their opponents penalty area. Now they are dragged out into a unfamiliar zone and they spend almost 70 percent of the game in that familiar zone which means they playing out of possession effectively.

Forget about Messi, forget about to press or not to press. Remember this time to track Xavi because there is where Milan failed in the previous meeting as well as Busquets/Mascherano CB combo who is shaky when better sides have a go at them. Both of their box play is awful and Pato even won headers of Busquets who is a wopping four inches taller than him. And Boatengs goal was a direct result and proof of their poor box play as Mascherano headed the ball straight to him. Playing two defensive midfielders in central defence works well when you dominate cause then they play in their usual zone (around the halfway line). However, they seemed unsettled when Milan came at them and at times struggled with positioning. This was exploited in the previous game by Pato’s pace and then again by Zlatan setting up Robiniho who missed a easy chance. Minutes later, he had made it 1-1. Poor positioning and loose marking from Mascherano and Busquets was the reason for conceding on both occasions.

They were so hanged up on stopping Messi they thought it was a good idea not to track Xavi. Messi through ball Xavi Penalty. One would have thought the Milan coach who have picked this up but he did not. The third goal Messi through ball Xavi again he tugged it away. Did you stop Messi? He did not score yes but 2 assists. So the answer is no.

If Guardiola plays 2 dmf's as cb in San Siro , it's not Milan's problem who exploited that. Also , we had a hard time with Messi but the penalty was a fluke , it's laughable the ref gave it.

Next time at San Siro , it's you who need to learn from mistakes more than we do. Milan played their game from start to finish and Barcelona won with a penalty which wasn't so fair. Many , many refs wouldn't give that a penalty.

As for our goals , you think it's just your poor box display ? I suppose this is an excuse heh ? Truth is , especially in GOATeng's goal you could do nothing about it .

Even Abidal who's your basic LB and he's very good defensively speaking , stared the abyss when Goateng passed him by like a statue.

Oh yes he scored a brilliant goal no dispute about that. But how did he end up with the ball? A Mascherano header gave him the ball on the edge of his own box to a opposing player. That is awful defending and could have been avoided if it was a CB playing in a zone he is comfortable in. Never mind the penalty if it was one or not but the fact that 2 Messi through balls found a unmarked Xavi in space in a dangerous position. I do not know if you know the rules of leaving players unmarked but the aim is if the opposition has a free man the further away from goal he is the better> Normally sides playing 3 CB has the 3 CB free and it does not create such a problem as having a guy like Xavi running free for 90 min.

Then the other hand Pep was busy with a transformational change and the players was still getting used to it. Do not think by one bit I say Milan has no chance or anything like that I just merely stated what they did wrong in the first two games. I think they paid too much attention to Messi and tracking him that they got pulled out of shape leaving space for Xavi not once but twice to run into.

Also Sanchez is a gem of a player. Thx to his time in Italy he does brilliantly tracking back and stop Aquilani playing the ball forward. We can discuss and talk all we want but Milan have one problem. The Milan midfield shape is more suited to counter-attacking or controlling the middle rather than chasing a goals.

Also playing the pressing game you need to defend high up the park. The Milan CB are not the fastest there is and Bayern Leverkusen tried it and Messi made a mockery of their high line

You're comparing Nesta and Silva to some unknowns, plus if Abate is match fit he can outrun your fastest player twice over with no effort.
So you are saying Aquilani can run from his possesion haul in Messi who was running on a through ball and dispossess him before he score. I am not comparing them with no names just explained the problem with a high line. Milan do not have the pace basically. Aquilani will be busy tracking his man if he leaves him for Messi then that midfielder he left becomes the free unmarked man. See what I am trying to say? You need a midfield quartet plus someone who can drop back to even up the numbers when Messi does it otherwise same thing is going to happen again. Xavi, Iniesta or Cesc are going to be the unmarked man in a danger zone.
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Post by Spooony Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:34 pm

Dante13 wrote:
Spooony wrote:
Dante13 wrote:
Spooony wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
baresi wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:You think you can keep a clean sheet against 12 goals in 7 CL matches Messi? hmm

Risky strategy to say the least.
The only strategy available I think. Razz
The best strategy against Barca is to press them. If you sit in the back and wait for them to make a mistake and capitalize on it you will end up losing. You can still rely on counters, but you cannot allow them space.
You press them and this happens

Real Madrid that also likes to press the opposition, the majority of possession tends to be concentrated just behind the center line in Real Madrid’s half (area marked red below). In that zone, midfielders, especially central attacking play-makers are most comfortable in possession and Guardiola understands this.
Barcelona it is - Page 4 Real-mdrid-image

Do you see the problem in that picture. Higuain and Di Maria in that picture likes to play near their opponents penalty area. Now they are dragged out into a unfamiliar zone and they spend almost 70 percent of the game in that familiar zone which means they playing out of possession effectively.

Forget about Messi, forget about to press or not to press. Remember this time to track Xavi because there is where Milan failed in the previous meeting as well as Busquets/Mascherano CB combo who is shaky when better sides have a go at them. Both of their box play is awful and Pato even won headers of Busquets who is a wopping four inches taller than him. And Boatengs goal was a direct result and proof of their poor box play as Mascherano headed the ball straight to him. Playing two defensive midfielders in central defence works well when you dominate cause then they play in their usual zone (around the halfway line). However, they seemed unsettled when Milan came at them and at times struggled with positioning. This was exploited in the previous game by Pato’s pace and then again by Zlatan setting up Robiniho who missed a easy chance. Minutes later, he had made it 1-1. Poor positioning and loose marking from Mascherano and Busquets was the reason for conceding on both occasions.

They were so hanged up on stopping Messi they thought it was a good idea not to track Xavi. Messi through ball Xavi Penalty. One would have thought the Milan coach who have picked this up but he did not. The third goal Messi through ball Xavi again he tugged it away. Did you stop Messi? He did not score yes but 2 assists. So the answer is no.

If Guardiola plays 2 dmf's as cb in San Siro , it's not Milan's problem who exploited that. Also , we had a hard time with Messi but the penalty was a fluke , it's laughable the ref gave it.

Next time at San Siro , it's you who need to learn from mistakes more than we do. Milan played their game from start to finish and Barcelona won with a penalty which wasn't so fair. Many , many refs wouldn't give that a penalty.

As for our goals , you think it's just your poor box display ? I suppose this is an excuse heh ? Truth is , especially in GOATeng's goal you could do nothing about it .

Even Abidal who's your basic LB and he's very good defensively speaking , stared the abyss when Goateng passed him by like a statue.

Oh yes he scored a brilliant goal no dispute about that. But how did he end up with the ball? A Mascherano header gave him the ball on the edge of his own box to a opposing player. That is awful defending and could have been avoided if it was a CB playing in a zone he is comfortable in. Never mind the penalty if it was one or not but the fact that 2 Messi through balls found a unmarked Xavi in space in a dangerous position. I do not know if you know the rules of leaving players unmarked but the aim is if the opposition has a free man the further away from goal he is the better> Normally sides playing 3 CB has the 3 CB free and it does not create such a problem as having a guy like Xavi running free for 90 min.

Then the other hand Pep was busy with a transformational change and the players was still getting used to it. Do not think by one bit I say Milan has no chance or anything like that I just merely stated what they did wrong in the first two games. I think they paid too much attention to Messi and tracking him that they got pulled out of shape leaving space for Xavi not once but twice to run into.

Also Sanchez is a gem of a player. Thx to his time in Italy he does brilliantly tracking back and stop Aquilani playing the ball forward. We can discuss and talk all we want but Milan have one problem. The Milan midfield shape is more suited to counter-attacking or controlling the middle rather than chasing a goals.

Also playing the pressing game you need to defend high up the park. The Milan CB are not the fastest there is and Bayern Leverkusen tried it and Messi made a mockery of their high line

ok ,that's all good and nice , Mash is not the best CB . Now , go watch the replay again because he doesn't do what you say, "awful defending". He did what all CBs would do there , he got the ball out of the box. You clearly don't remember how high and fast Boateng got his leg there , just to take control of the ball.
It was a goal of brilliance , not a defender's mistake , you like that or not.

I understand everything you say and i can't say i disagree with the high lines or about what you say on Messi.Though about Messi , he's Messi what can anyone do? We had to give more attention there than usuall.

The thing i disagree completely with is , that transformational change you say. Can you explain more?
Because i am pretty sure you played the 4-3-3 like always Smile
By heading it straight to the opposition on the edge of the area? In what CB school do they teach that? Have you being watching How to defend like Titus Bramble videos recently?
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Post by Dante Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:36 pm

Ganso wrote:i think we should do like in the group stages,Boa-Ibra-Robinho press,midfield sits back and defend,Nocerino HAS to mark alves and Xavi at the same time

yeap ,after his 9 goals , it's time for Nocerino to grow a third lung.. Laughing How could he ever manage that ?

Can't really argue with the rest though , spot on.

baresi wrote:Pressing is the least thing we need to do, containing and closing spaces, and using our mid fielders to double team would be the best option imo, what I mean is our DM pairs with the side MFer to double team depends on where the ball is, if the ball on the right he covers the right with the RM and the LM moves to the middle, if the ball is on the left he moves to the left with the LM and the RM moves to the middle. But pressing Barca has DISASTER DISASTER DISASTER written all over it, one mistake and our defense rolls down like domino stones.

Very true Baresi. Especially the part with how the midfielders should move over when Barca has the ball , great stuff there.

I agree , we shouldn't press hard or that high , it would be a fkin DISASTER Laughing
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Post by Spooony Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:41 pm

This was how they lined up in the last game.
Barcelona it is - Page 4 Image01

Thing about 1 guy marking 2 people 1 a deep laying playmaker and the other a wide midfielder/fullback out on the wing? That is impossible unless he has super powers like speed of a puma or faster than a speeding bullet
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Post by Ganso Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:45 pm

Dante13 wrote:
Ganso wrote:i think we should do like in the group stages,Boa-Ibra-Robinho press,midfield sits back and defend,Nocerino HAS to mark alves and Xavi at the same time

yeap ,after his 9 goals , it's time for Nocerino to grow a third lung.. Laughing How could he ever manage that ?

Dante,we wont have half the posession we have against the teams he scores on....our midfielders will spend the entire match running after Xavi,Iniesta and Messi rather they like or not
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Post by Spooony Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:49 pm

Ganso wrote:
Dante13 wrote:
Ganso wrote:i think we should do like in the group stages,Boa-Ibra-Robinho press,midfield sits back and defend,Nocerino HAS to mark alves and Xavi at the same time

yeap ,after his 9 goals , it's time for Nocerino to grow a third lung.. Laughing How could he ever manage that ?

Dante,we wont have half the posession we have against the teams he scores on....our midfielders will spend the entire match running after Xavi,Iniesta and Messi rather they like or not
That is where zonal and man marking comes into play. A footballl pitch is devided into zones. Once you step into another zone your have to answer to the owner of that zone (defending team), But if two guys step into your zone you are in trouble. Now that is what is basically happening. Messi create that with his false nine position. I posted a pictre earlier with a circle. That is the busiest part of the pitch and where the ball will be most of the game.
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Post by Dante Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:50 pm

Spooony wrote:

By heading it straight to the opposition on the edge of the area? In what CB school do they teach that? Have you being watching How to defend like Titus Bramble videos recently?

In the CB school , " do the obvious and do throw the ball out of the box" .

Now ,if it wasn't that effective because of the 1vs1 in the air got the better out of Macherano , you can't really call the goal a mistake or poor defending.

Most CBs would do exactly the same , maybe even worse .And please stop with the irony comments , ok ? Ask a defender and then come and talk to me , because that didn't exactly come out of my head you know. I ve played as defender in a REAL team and it was from the first things i had to learn.

" No matter what , the ball goes out of our box ". "If you do the obvious , none can say you made a mistake" . and Masherano did just that.

I said all i had to say on this case. You want to keep yadayadayada about Masherano or answer my question in the first place.

What transformational changes ? Pique/Puyol not avelable and Guardiola opting for Busquits and Masherano as CB ? was it that
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Post by Dante Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:54 pm

Ganso wrote:
Dante13 wrote:
Ganso wrote:i think we should do like in the group stages,Boa-Ibra-Robinho press,midfield sits back and defend,Nocerino HAS to mark alves and Xavi at the same time

yeap ,after his 9 goals , it's time for Nocerino to grow a third lung.. Laughing How could he ever manage that ?

Dante,we wont have half the posession we have against the teams he scores on....our midfielders will spend the entire match running after Xavi,Iniesta and Messi rather they like or not

well i will definitely not argue with that. Though , it's another thing running and marking all over and another thing to mark 2 players at the same time

i was :vagi: as it seems . But i too have high hopes for Noce in this match , i believe he will do very well.
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Post by Spooony Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:57 pm

Dante13 wrote:
Spooony wrote:

By heading it straight to the opposition on the edge of the area? In what CB school do they teach that? Have you being watching How to defend like Titus Bramble videos recently?

In the CB school , " do the obvious and do throw the ball out of the box" .

Now ,if it wasn't that effective because of the 1vs1 in the air got the better out of Macherano , you can't really call the goal a mistake or poor defending.

Most CBs would do exactly the same , maybe even worse .And please stop with the irony comments , ok ? Ask a defender and then come and talk to me , because that didn't exactly come out of my head you know. I ve played as defender in a REAL team and it was from the first things i had to learn.

" No matter what , the ball goes out of our box ". "If you do the obvious , none can say you made a mistake" . and Masherano did just that.

I said all i had to say on this case. You want to keep yadayadayada about Masherano or answer my question in the first place.

What transformational changes ? Pique/Puyol not avelable and Guardiola opting for Busquits and Masherano as CB ? was it that

Last time I am going to talk about the Mascherano error promise. You always try to put it in a place away from your goal like out for a corner or to the direction of the touchline. Never back across your goal or straight back to a attacking player in the middle of the park. It is like a goalkeeper punching the ball. Remember David James Eric Cantona FA CUP final? There was another reason why.

Now to get back to your question

Puyol and Pique is back where Puyol was on the bench for the last game. This is what Pep has been doing a lot this season and he out dooped Jose in the 3-1 win with it when Real was pressing and cutting of the quick interplays of the midfield.

Barcelona it is - Page 4 AbBJTmtapf
Busquets dropped back into a CB postion Puyol to the LB position which frees up Alves on the wing.
Now if Milan go with 2 playmakers infront of a holding midfielder then Messi has space between the lines and will control the game and cause problems like in the last meeting. Remember now Busquets position will be around the halfway line because of the high pressing line. Barca start transitions from the back where Busquets with his 92 percent accuracy avg get it going so well. Xavi is the link between the midfield and the attacking midfielder Iniesta or Messi dropping deeper

Now this is how they lined up last time

Barcelona it is - Page 4 Image00
Swap Mascherano for Pique and Thiago and Villa for Sanchez and Alves and Keita for Iniesta so they will look like the first picture I posted. Now you see Messi will be picked up by your defenders on paper at least.

Aquilani will pick up Fabregas or Iniesta, Seedorf will pick Cesc or Iniesta as well depends when they switch and Boateng will track Xavi. Now there is no unmarked midfielder correct? Messi is covered there in the CB zone etc etc.

But Messi drops deep out of the zones that the CB is patrolling and into the midfielder zone or the false 9 which is just past the halfway line more or less. Now you are the CB what do you do? Do you follow him and get pulled in leaving space for Cesc, Sanchez or any of the other on rushing midfielders to run into or do you stay put and let the guy in who's zone he pick him up? Van Bommel is busy with Sanchez or Cesc also will depend if they switched.

Now you decided to stay put and leave it to Seedorf. See what happens Seedorf sit now with 2 players in his zone. Now do he track Messi or do he track Xavi. There is now a free man which is unmarked in the midfield. Messi will make his little run pulling players with him where the free midfielder now can run forward into space with no marker on him. If the midfielder decide to pass him to the fullback then Alves will be free and unmarked and space to run into. Look at Barca's assists. Messi with the most, then Alves then Cesc. See always the free man created .

Just to show you how having more midfielders can cause havoc look at the Roma team of 07 I think. They had a injury crisis and all their strikers were injured leaving them with Totti which is a tranquista and not a out and out forward. So they played 4-6-0 basically. The CB did not have any one to mark and was confused on who to pick up. Roma played on the counter and when they got the ball Totti ran around holding it up while the 6 midfielders fly forward leaving the opposition confused who to pick up. They smashed Inter Milan 6-1 in the cup final and Milan won the league by 21 points that year.
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Post by Dante Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:33 pm

well , that's a real possibility and very well written and pictured as well. The 'play' you provide could easily happen , i can only accept that.

Though , there are more in games than zones and man marking. You mention the free player who is left unmarked because of Messi most of the times. What happens if that player find simply no space to run at or pass the ball/shoot?

This will be our game , not man marking everyone or just equaling your midfielders. Milan doesn't exactly man mark opponent or key players , we close down spaces so we can limit their options or creativity .
And our midfield of Nocerino-Aquilani and Ambrosini may lack some speed , though will always get boosted by Boateng and Sharaawy/Pato/Robinho and if he feels like it , Ibra , sometimes.

The Milan center backs never leave position when we lack possesion , so it's easy to predict that. What you can't predict is the outcome of ocassional 1vs1 close to our box , which we thrive at and as a result , we start attacks on the same zone you end them. This means almost all of your forwards and at the very least Xavi and Iniesta will be close to our box , leaving us great space to counter attack .

We can talk a lot about what could happen in such a game , because both teams have so many qualities and options. Though , Milan's game in San Siro , will not differ much from the last time. Only this time , we will have a better picture of what to expect from Barcelona and we will play a lot better .

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Post by Eivindo Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:22 am

expect another Classico in the making.. la liga trying to strike while the english teams had a bad year, and will go for the "best league in the world" commercials. It started even on the Canal + Norwegian version for the 2011-12 season, with a commercial stating its the best league in the world.
I wonder how it will look next season if this CL ends up in a Classico, perhaps Madrid and Barca will be able to push the english media into making commercials saying that too?Razz
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