OFFTOPIC: Copa America 2011

BarrileteCosmico wrote:LMG I agree with everything you have said.

I second that. It was a really great post to read.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Also, apparently Messi hasn't been leaving the training grounds lately, even when the players get the afternoons to themselves. When he does go out, he comes back very early.

That's why this kind of attacks on him get to me. I mean if a player is not trying hard enough or causing problems off the pitch blame him all you like. You can see he is trying so hard on the pitch but it's not working. So the only reason he must be battered from all directions is because he is so talented and successful. No wonder his father used the word envy.

Aristotle Onassis wrote:
Sorry, I thought Maradona used this at the beginning of the last World Cup. My mistake there. (He actually used a 4-3-3, often closer to a 4-2-4 with only Veron and Mascherano in the midfield.)

Never mind. You are right that Maradona started with a 4-2-4 but then dropped Veron and changed it to an even crazier 4-1-3-2. In all these years of following football I don't know of a single other instance when a coach started a match with only one central midfielder.

Here is a wonderful article that is almost straight from my heart.

http://networkedblogs.com/kav65

messixaviesta wrote:Here is a wonderful article that is almost straight from my heart.

http://networkedblogs.com/kav65

Very good read, thanks for sharing

Lionel Messi wrote:
Very good read, thanks for sharing

Most welcome mate. I am glad you liked it.

El entrenador de la Argentina, además, confirmó que cambiará de sistema y que ya tiene definido quién será el nueve de área que pondrá: "Tenemos una forma de trabajar, ese 4-3-3. Pero es posible utilizar la de los JJOO: con un enganche, un punta retrasado y dos delanteros. Esa es la idea, nos vamos a parar así. Ya tenemos el equipo, no tengo misterios. Vamos a jugar con un nueve de área, que es Higuaín, y Lionel tirado atrás. Además, con dos volantes. No cambiamos ni el estilo ni las formas".

Sigh.......... Messi to play as AM again.

Batista is an idiot

Is he going to persist with Lavezzi and Tevez?

He will play a 4'2'3'1 with Higuain as a 9 and Messi as an AM. He didn't confirm the names of the wingers but he did say he didn't want to change a lot.

I hope he drops Tevez and Lavezzi and puts Aguero and Dive Maria in

If Tevez starts, I will laugh as Argentina bow out of the Copa America without reaching the knockout stage.

The latest rumored team:

Ugh, Banega been taken off is a very bad business for Argentina. If Batista wants to see Messi play in the last 30 meters, as he stated before, he will have to play with 2 CMs not just Gago.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:The latest rumored team:

Same defense & GK
Mascherano - Gago
Aguero- Messi - Di Maria
Higuain

Ugh, Banega been taken off is a very bad business for Argentina. If Batista wants to see Messi play in the last 30 meters, as he stated before, he will have to play with 2 CMs not just Gago.

alfred, the best thing about this lineup is Di Maria. We would have preferred Messi on the right but at least with Di Maria he will get to link up better than he got with Tevez. Batista clearly doesn't trust Pastore at all and I am not sure how far I do or do not blame him for that. At the right Lavezzi may have been positionally better but given his horror shows who wants to see him. Aguero has some natural chemistry with Messi. Higuain is a good choice because he has a knack for getting the goal that is so needed. Also we wanted Mascherano to drop into defense but it seems Cambiasso cannot be entrusted such a huge task given his age and injury problems. Gago is a bit of a surprise but then Banega has disappointed. Gago doesn't play too badly but his lack of match fitness shows at times. Overall it looks better but not too much better.

We discuss Argentina so much. How about discussing a little Brazil. Starting off here are a few questions.

1. Was yesterday's match the worst performance of Dani Alves' entire career?

2. Do you think Neymar and Ganso have been entrusted with too much responsibility and are just not ready for that? With Ganso it may be about him not being match fit and with Neymar it could be about him being individualistic. Neymar was man of the match in the Copa Libertadores final. So I thought he knows how to perform at a big stage but it seems he needs to move to Europe quickly to learn some team play. Moving to a smaller club first may be better though.

3. Is Pato working as a number 9?

4. What else do you think is going wrong with Brazil?

messixaviesta wrote:We discuss Argentina so much. How about discussing a little Brazil. Starting off here are a few questions.

1. Was yesterday's match the worst performance of Dani Alves' entire career?

2. Do you think Neymar and Ganso have been entrusted with too much responsibility and are just not ready for that? With Ganso it may be about him not being match fit and with Neymar it could be about him being individualistic. Neymar was man of the match in the Copa Libertadores final. So I thought he knows how to perform at a big stage but it seems he needs to move to Europe quickly to learn some team play. Moving to a smaller club first may be better though.

3. Is Pato working as a number 9?

4. What else do you think is going wrong with Brazil?

1.NO,we have been fortunate to see the real defensive side of alves,i always thought possession system makes it alot easier for wing backs interms of defending.like Ramos being the best RB in world cup with spain...For possession sides wing backs primary duty is to provide width ,not to defend. But when you get back to normal teams you sucks because you cant defend to save your life,alves floped in all clasico goals came from alves side isnt a coincidence.


2,neymar and ganso are far from eligible to pay for big clubs.I dont think they deserve to start for any La liga teams to be honest.They simply lack lot of experience.Theydont know what to do with the ball.Both are potential super stars but ATM they are nobodies.

3.pato is another saviola who will never full fill his potential due to some unknown reasons.


4.poor coaching and inexperienced players.Team have no leaders,and only leader in the team sucks himself (dani dives)/

adit, thanks for an interesting and hard hitting reply.

1. I don't think that D.Alves is as bad as you say but I understand and accept your opinion. At the moment all I can say is he does find it hard to play in a different system and I would like to wait for some more time before drawing a clear conclusion.

2. Pretty much agree. There is a difference between a potential superstar and a world class performer.

3. Very unique thought. Let's wait and watch.

4. I don't think Mano is a great coach either but maybe he needs a little more time too. Inexperience certainly is a problem. As for leaders I think the biggest leader should be Lucio who is also the team captain.

Maradona has just said that he too was heavily criticized in Argentina before WC 1986. Thus Messi should stay calm and what's happening is not Messi's fault. I have to say that to my ears this is one of the best things that El Diego has said in an eternity. Apart from this I think there are two other factors which are causing even more negativity against Messi. One is that he never played for an Argentine club at a senior level and thus has no local fan base. The second is his immense success with Barcelona in terms of trophies, goal scoring rate and the consecutive Ballon D'ors. So some people think that if he is not able to replicate the same for Argentina then it must be his fault and that he is probably not dedicated enough. Actually we need to recall something here. Before this tournament started Messi said that his relations with the Argentine public had improved. One reason for that could have been his excellent performances in friendlies during the last year or so the most significant of which would probably be the friendly against Brazil that he won with a goal of pure individual brilliance. However once competitive football starts people no longer care about what you did in friendlies. Hence a large part of the earlier negativity has come back. That's how I for one can read the whole matter at the moment.

Agreed JD, it's a very good thing of Maradona to do. And Maradona is right now stuck in the hospital supporting his dieing mother, so it was also very big of him to seek out a chance to say this even when he's having such a personal problem. The nicest thing he's said in an eternity sounds about right.

Lionel Messi wrote:

Romero
Zanetti Milito Burdisso Zabaleta
Mascherano Gago
Aguero Messi Di Maria
Higuain

Is that confirmed?

Falcao is beasting for Colombia buy him and Sanchez and put Messi on the right

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Agreed JD, it's a very good thing of Maradona to do. And Maradona is right now stuck in the hospital supporting his dieing mother, so it was also very big of him to seek out a chance to say this even when he's having such a personal problem. The nicest thing he's said in an eternity sounds about right.

I agree almost completely alfred but in his full statement he has also made it clear that there are some out there for whom he doesn't wish the best. He has said before that Julio Grondona backstabbed him. I think he is also very angry with Sergio Batista for taking over the top job. What good this may do to an extent though is give Messi some peace because there are some in Argentina who will listen blindly to what Diego says.

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

Romero
Zanetti Milito Burdisso Zabaleta
Mascherano Gago
Aguero Messi Di Maria
Higuain

Is that confirmed?

Falcao is beasting for Colombia buy him and Sanchez and put Messi on the right

Not confirmed I don't think but it's being reported in a few places that this is what's going to come out vs Costa Rica

I wish Messi would be put as the striker or on the right with Pastore in midfield and Aguero/Higuain and Di Maria up front.
I don't think Batista has faith in Pastore which is sad because Pastore is an incredible talent

Messi will score a getafe goal in the next game (if they dont park the bus)

messixaviesta wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:LMG I agree with everything you have said.

I second that. It was a really great post to read.

Thanks guys.

JD, that was an interesting article you posted. I like how it mentioned that Argentina don't know how to get him the ball. It is so true, as on barca, everyone plays for everyone else, but on Argentina there is too much individualism. We don't expect Argentina to play like barca with that cutthroat efficiency, but we'd like to see more selflessness and effort from the big players.

Thanks LMG. I agree with you to some extent. I don't think most Argentine players are intentionally selfish. I have followed Argentina for some years now and I can say they are one of the most patriotic groups who can go to great lengths when representing the national team. Instead I think they lack the qualities needed to play in this system. Having not practiced enough playing that way makes it even more difficult. As I said before that system is very difficult to implement successfully. Continuous link ups and off the ball movement are the very life blood for it. Here both are conspicuous by their absence. The sooner they give up trying to be Barcelona the better for all concerned. Last heard they are doing exactly that tonight. So let's hope for the best.