Has Javi Martinez pulled a Mascherano?

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Has Javi Martinez pulled a Mascherano? Empty Has Javi Martinez pulled a Mascherano?

Post by barca 2011 Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:12 am

In the sense that his coach has utilized him as a centre back despite him being a DM? I know it isn't the first time its ever been done but he did well at the back vs. Barca and it seems el loco has found a good defender on top of having a good DM. I haven't watched every Bilbao match as of late but for those who have, has Bielsa been primarily using him as a CB, or does he switch him up? Either way, it looks like a good move.
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Post by Magricos Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:42 am

He has played at CB a lot this season.

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Post by BarcaKizz Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:43 am

The difference for me is, Mascherano is very good at CB for Barca, but the DM role doesn't suit him. He's quite a lot better at CB and his future is probably as a CB. Whereas Bilbao are mainly using Javi there because that works best for them. I think he's still better as a DM, and can play box to box as well. It would be a bit of a waste IMO if he was converted into a CB, because he could be one of the world's best midfielders.
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Post by guest7 Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:14 am

Yeah, BarcaKizz summed up my thoughts. Javi has way too good ball skills to play as a CB instead of a DM, while Mascherano isn't as good ball player, so it's the best for the team if he plays CB.

Javi can do both roles very well, but it's only at B2B where I could see him grow as one of the best midfielders in his position.
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Post by Le Samourai Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:44 am

Javier is not a CB.

He's being used there because it's the best fit they have ATM.
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Post by Albiceleste Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:23 pm

He's just playing there so they have a ball playing CB.

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Post by The Franchise Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:45 pm

Bielsa put Vidal at leftcenterback before either of these two.

But yeah, there is a difference as Kizz already said.
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Post by McLewis Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:30 pm

He's looked very good at CB, but I ultimately think he's wasted in this position overall. He's in this position for the good of Bilbao, but eventually, if he's to realize his potential, it'll happen from his natural position in midfield.

What happened to Mikel San Jose?
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Post by VanDeezNuts Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:42 pm

thing is martinez originally started as a CB, then moved to DM where he has been awesome, now hes back at CB because it best suits bilbao

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Post by donttreadonred Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:47 pm

Masch is not a CB. He's a DM and he has decent ball skills. He's no Xabi Alonso, but he does a great job as a pure DM. He shines as a CB at Barca, because they play the ball out of the back on the ground so much. They need CB's with ball-playing skills. In addition, Barca already has busquets well established at DM. He arguably is better on the ball and in attack than Masch.

Javi Martinez is closer to Busquets than Masch. It's a rough comparison, but he has a much more b2b style, getting forward and participating in the attack. He's only playing CB at BIlbao out of necessity. He's positionally disciplined enough, that it works, but he still shows a little tendency to get forward. It would be a shame for him to waste his vision and passing ability at CB.
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Post by Lord Hades Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:48 pm

i concur with a lot of others, he is such a good player that he can pass of as a good cb too but he is much more, even playing him as a conventional dm would be a waste of his talent imo
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Post by Doc Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:38 pm

And to think Clemente once said this in reference to Javi "I wanted bread, they brought me a jar of Nutella."
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Post by halamadrid2 Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:46 pm

McLewis wrote:He's looked very good at CB, but I ultimately think he's wasted in this position overall. He's in this position for the good of Bilbao, but eventually, if he's to realize his potential, it'll happen from his natural position in midfield.

What happened to Mikel San Jose?

he is quite young still, he does play tho, he has what??? 26 apps(all competitons) this season... not too bad
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Post by Red Alert Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:27 am

Both wasted at CB.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:40 am

Mascherano is a better centerback than he is a defensive midfielder, today in 2012...its obvious.

Not good enough on the ball to play the role.

Maybe if it was a counter attacking team that has to soak up pressure and then launch quick counters he could play it still because he doesnt really have to be good on the ball...but for any team which wants possession (most great teams) he isnt good enough on the ball.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:55 am

ynwa wrote:Both wasted at CB.

What do you mean wasted? isnt the role of football players to do their best for the team success? after all it's a team game no? Bilbao became a much better team with Javi at the back, who himself grew grew up quite a lot, and Masch is helping Barca maintain their standards attracting nothing but praise for his play. They both used to belong to a defensive end of the game and that hasnt changed.
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Post by Lord Awesome Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:00 pm

What helps Martinez at CB IMO is his Height and Workrate. One of the few who can stop Messi decently enough.

Bielsa like Guardiola loves having Technically able players at the back who have Bite as well. Vidal and Martinez fit the bill.
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Post by Dnmac4 Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:33 pm

I'm a massive Martinez fan and have been for a long time. The bottom line is that Bilbao pulls from a very small selection of the population. Where as most teams recruit players from all over the world Bilbao will only take Basque players, which IMO is awesome.

There are some huge draw backs to the system though. Javi Martinez is going to be a world class player when all is said and done, therefor IMO he would be great as a defender or a midfielder but again IMO he is a better midfielder then defender even though he's exceptional at both.

In Spain and the Basque region you can find a good midfielder at any playground as that is Spain's best export right about now. It is much harder to find a exceptional Center Back which is needed for the spine of your team. Bielsa did the smart thing and took his most gifted player and put him in the part of the team that is lacking and in most La Liga teams the center backs are really not very good but the have a plethora of good midfielders.

Bilbao has to make the best use of what they have and IMO it's not the best thing for Javi Martinez's career but the Basque players do what is best for there team not themselves and that is what is so admirable about Bilbao.

I for one hope Javi goes back to his natural position as he is going to be a total beast there and IMO he will be sold sooner or later and the team that buys him will not have the same issues as Bilbao and will deploy him where he should play and then you will really see him take off.
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Post by Lord Awesome Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:39 pm

I wouldn't say it's so small, Dnmac. There are Basques in France and there's a ton in Latin America. You can be from Argentina play for Argentina but if you have Basque heritage then is there any reason why you can't play for Bilbao? Amorebieta and Lizarazu are prominent examples. Griezmann and Higuain are elligable as well.

See I just expanded the pool of players for Bilbao.
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:49 pm

I cannot understand why Bielsa is compelled to sacrifice Javi for the CB position. When Amorbieta is suspended or San Jose is injured, why in the world not play the talented Ekiza or Castillo? (although he is injured)

Javi in my opinion is damn near world class as CB, yet it takes away from our team in many ways as mostly because he is so so effective in his DM/CM position.

Not only is he a rock in the middle on the midfield, yet his skillful runs and superb distribution is sometimes needed when our players cannot combine the physical and technical side of the game. So in conclusion, Bilbao looks much better as team when he is in his actual position. Marcelo NEEDS to play Ekiza if when San Jose or Amorbieta is out.

Mascherano is justified considering his attacking skills are really not that impressive and plus Busquets is better than him.

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Post by The Franchise Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:52 pm

When Javi plays at the back, what is the usual starting 11 Arq?
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Post by Dnmac4 Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:53 pm

Lord Hispano wrote:I wouldn't say it's so small, Dnmac. There are Basques in France and there's a ton in Latin America. You can be from Argentina play for Argentina but if you have Basque heritage then is there any reason why you can't play for Bilbao? Amorebieta and Lizarazu are prominent examples. Griezmann and Higuain are elligable as well.

See I just expanded the pool of players for Bilbao.

Dude, expand it all you want your comparing Basque people to the entire population of the world including Basque's. Remember it's not like Bilbao get to keep every Basque player either.

The stats are mind boggling if you look at the population they pull from compared to everyone else.

It really is pretty simple, it's like comparing the ocean to a glass of water. I mean in the 4 main leagues in Europe it's hard enough to even have 3/4 of your team come from the country there in not even a particular region and these are pretty big countries.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:04 pm

The Franchise wrote:When Javi plays at the back, what is the usual starting 11 Arq?

---------------Iraiz
Iraola-Javi-Amorobieta-Aurtenetxe
-------------Iturraspe
-------Ander---------De marcos
Susaeta--------------------Muniain
--------------Llorente
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Post by The Franchise Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:06 pm

And if Javi is in midfield, who comes out normally? Iturraspe?
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:08 pm

I can say for sure, because he can just as well play a 4231 with Iturraspe and Javi in pivot. Tomorrow, he is going to take the DM position tho
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