Where it all begun

Came across this and thought to share.

Great video. I went on their website and they have a superb collection of old matches.

http://www.4dfoot.com/full-classic-matches/

Yep, superb website. I been watching stuff some there for a bit now, dispells alot of myths.

Excellent video dani. So Cruyff learnt from Rinus Michaels and later taught us.

Awesome find

messixaviesta wrote:Excellent video dani. So Cruyff learnt from Rinus Michaels and later taught us.

Indeed, but Michaels refined the idea he was introduced to learnt from his former coach, a man named Jack Reynolds who saw the roots of the system in Hungarian NT aswell as the famous La Máquina, the great River Plate side of the 40's.

Of course, after it being passes on it has been refined each time, from Hungary and River Plate to Reynolds to Michaels to Ștefan Kovcs to Cruyff to Guardiola.

The Franchise wrote:Yep, superb website. I been watching stuff some there for a bit now, dispells alot of myths.

What myths dani?
Curious to know.

The Franchise wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:Excellent video dani. So Cruyff learnt from Rinus Michaels and later taught us.

Indeed, but Michaels refined the idea he was introduced to learnt from his former coach, a man named Jack Reynolds who saw the roots of the system in Hungarian NT aswell as the famous La Máquina, the great River Plate side of the 40's.

Of course, after it being passes on it has been refined each time, from Hungary and River Plate to Reynolds to Michaels to Ștefan Kovcs to Cruyff to Guardiola.

Great info dani. So the Magical Magyars were also indirectly associated with total football. As you say the seeds of the idea may have been planted long ago but Ajax and Netherlands were probably the first teams to execute it to such perfection that it caught the eye of everyone. This is usually the story with any major innovative idea.

The Franchise wrote:

Came across this and thought to share.

That isnt were it began though, It began in 1965.

ps where it all BEGAN... not begun...

alexjanosik wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Yep, superb website. I been watching stuff some there for a bit now, dispells alot of myths.

What myths dani?
Curious to know.

Well you get to see the Barca version of Maradona, the supposed great man who dare we not compare Messi to. Obviously most have seen Maradona already, but if that was the first time anyone watched it you can see the "one man team" stuff is a load of crap.

Also maybe not a myth so to speak, but I got to see the Ajax of 69 which I had not seen before. A great side and I find it strange noone talks about them now.

Also stuff you hear about the great Liverpool side, great team, but Zico tore them apart. Not often talked about on English shores.

Well of course, this wasnt literally the first time we saw high pressure, ball retention, play swapping over...but I came across it and seeing the great master Cruyff involved us as Barca fans are going to think of it as the "start".

And thanks for the grammer lesson, not being sarcastic.

The Franchise wrote:Well of course, this wasnt literally the first time we saw high pressure, ball retention, play swapping over...but I came across it and seeing the great master Cruyff involved us as Barca fans are going to think of it as the "start".

And thanks for the grammer lesson, not being sarcastic.

Surely the start would be in 69/70 no? Ajax had been playing that way for half a decade, so why would the WC be the start. That philosophy was the basis of the Ajax winning three Cls in a row. So why is the Holland game more of a start when Total football is Ajax philosophy?

O and anyone that watched maradona know he wasnt a one man team. TBF he was treated like dirt in Barcelona. Watch the Bilbao vs Barcelona game to see what I mean. It was a disgrace the way he was treated.

Hell the biggest myth is that Argentina was a one man team and that Maradon saved them when in fact the system was specifically catered for Maradona, more than the Barcelona sytem caters to any of its players tbh.

Dani, my PC is old and the browsers (including Chrome Im using now) I use dont show clips here on the forum...which is a lot Is there anyway around it? If not, could u pls post the link of the video u posted? Cheers

Barcalearning, double click on the video even though you cant see it and it should open up in a new window

jibers wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Well of course, this wasnt literally the first time we saw high pressure, ball retention, play swapping over...but I came across it and seeing the great master Cruyff involved us as Barca fans are going to think of it as the "start".

And thanks for the grammer lesson, not being sarcastic.

Surely the start would be in 69/70 no? Ajax had been playing that way for half a decade, so why would the WC be the start. That philosophy was the basis of the Ajax winning three Cls in a row. So why is the Holland game more of a start when Total football is Ajax philosophy?

O and anyone that watched maradona know he wasnt a one man team. TBF he was treated like dirt in Barcelona. Watch the Bilbao vs Barcelona game to see what I mean. It was a disgrace the way he was treated.

Hell the biggest myth is that Argentina was a one man team and that Maradon saved them when in fact the system was specifically catered for Maradona, more than the Barcelona sytem caters to any of its players tbh.

Well you can go back further if you like, the great Hungarian side did alot of the same things.

As I said, I came across a video of Holland..not Ajax..so thats what I posted. If I came across an Ajax one, I would of posted it with the same title and even then if we want to be technical I would be false.

Its just a title, dont have to take it so literally.

And, no, not anyone who watched Maradona knows that. Because people still say that same line all the time.

The Franchise wrote:

jibers wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Well of course, this wasnt literally the first time we saw high pressure, ball retention, play swapping over...but I came across it and seeing the great master Cruyff involved us as Barca fans are going to think of it as the "start".

And thanks for the grammer lesson, not being sarcastic.

Surely the start would be in 69/70 no? Ajax had been playing that way for half a decade, so why would the WC be the start. That philosophy was the basis of the Ajax winning three Cls in a row. So why is the Holland game more of a start when Total football is Ajax philosophy?

O and anyone that watched maradona know he wasnt a one man team. TBF he was treated like dirt in Barcelona. Watch the Bilbao vs Barcelona game to see what I mean. It was a disgrace the way he was treated.

Hell the biggest myth is that Argentina was a one man team and that Maradon saved them when in fact the system was specifically catered for Maradona, more than the Barcelona sytem caters to any of its players tbh.

Well you can go back further if you like, the great Hungarian side did alot of the same things.

As I said, I came across a video of Holland..not Ajax..so thats what I posted. If I came across an Ajax one, I would of posted it with the same title and even then if we want to be technical I would be false.

Its just a title, dont have to take it so literally.

And, no, not anyone who watched Maradona knows that. Because people still say that same line all the time.

The only similarity that They had is that they both used forwards who dropped deeper ala cruyff and Hidegkuti. Hungary didnt press as teams didnt do it at the time. The basic principles of total football were first used in Ajax as it was linked with the way the dutch perceived things.

Restrict space when without the ball, make the pitch wider when with it, these where tactical evolutions that Michels brought about and they are seen in modern football today, especially with Barcelona as it is the basis of their passing and pressing game.

Hoolland and Hungary were nothing alike.

Yea but most morons that speak about Maradona never stop and think. Maradona was a mosnter no doubt but it is arguable whether he was even the best of his generation, Some say Platini was...

No, not just that. They rotated all over the pitch, it was more than just one man dropping deep. They had players roaming everywhere, players appearing on all parts of the pitch.

Of course this isnt total football, but the ideas used here would later be devolped and worked on to become total football.

The Franchise wrote:No, not just that. They rotated all over the pitch, it was more than just one man dropping deep. They had players roaming everywhere, players appearing on all parts of the pitch.

Of course this isnt total football, but the ideas used here would later be devolped and worked on to become total football.

Yea I agree with the rotation but they were far less structured than Michels Ajax. That team became the mnodel for Beautiful football. I thought you meant they played a 1-3-3-3 like Ajax. Sad that Hungarfy didnt win the WC, Puskas would have gone down as an undisputed great.

Ajax were more disiplined with their formation and always kept their shape.

Yep. I didnt mean they played the same way as Ajax, style wise or formation. Rather, they had elements of the style which came to be.

To be honest, its only normal as years go by it is perfected and updated to the modern game.

In that video, look at the pressing and high line.

Its very effective and works, but clearly isnt as organised as Barca now.

The Franchise wrote:Yep. I didnt mean they played the same way as Ajax, style wise or formation. Rather, they had elements of the style which came to be.

To be honest, its only normal as years go by it is perfected and updated to the modern game.

In that video, look at the pressing and high line.

Its very effective and works, but clearly isnt as organised as Barca now.

Don't be fooled by the pressing, I've watehced all their games in the WC and they did it in bits and bobs. It was more through sheer fitness than through a sytsematic pressing because teams sat back. The high line was because they wanted to play the offside trap. Watch the full brazil game and see how many of the men bombed forward. At one point in Brazils own half there were more dutch players

Saachi was the first to pretty much implement a syetematic pressing game that required more intelligence than sheer atleticism.

Great vid, thanks for sharing.

The Franchise wrote:Barcalearning, double click on the video even though you cant see it and it should open up in a new window

It doesnt work, its just nothing there, my cursor stays the same and the area is just blank. My windows is old so I dont have the needed plugins or whatever u call them Im guessing and it doesnt detect update etc.

jibers wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

jibers wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Well of course, this wasnt literally the first time we saw high pressure, ball retention, play swapping over...but I came across it and seeing the great master Cruyff involved us as Barca fans are going to think of it as the "start".

And thanks for the grammer lesson, not being sarcastic.

Surely the start would be in 69/70 no? Ajax had been playing that way for half a decade, so why would the WC be the start. That philosophy was the basis of the Ajax winning three Cls in a row. So why is the Holland game more of a start when Total football is Ajax philosophy?

O and anyone that watched maradona know he wasnt a one man team. TBF he was treated like dirt in Barcelona. Watch the Bilbao vs Barcelona game to see what I mean. It was a disgrace the way he was treated.

Hell the biggest myth is that Argentina was a one man team and that Maradon saved them when in fact the system was specifically catered for Maradona, more than the Barcelona sytem caters to any of its players tbh.

Well you can go back further if you like, the great Hungarian side did alot of the same things.

As I said, I came across a video of Holland..not Ajax..so thats what I posted. If I came across an Ajax one, I would of posted it with the same title and even then if we want to be technical I would be false.

Its just a title, dont have to take it so literally.

And, no, not anyone who watched Maradona knows that. Because people still say that same line all the time.

The only similarity that They had is that they both used forwards who dropped deeper ala cruyff and Hidegkuti. Hungary didnt press as teams didnt do it at the time. The basic principles of total football were first used in Ajax as it was linked with the way the dutch perceived things.

Restrict space when without the ball, make the pitch wider when with it, these where tactical evolutions that Michels brought about and they are seen in modern football today, especially with Barcelona as it is the basis of their passing and pressing game.

Hoolland and Hungary were nothing alike.

Yea but most morons that speak about Maradona never stop and think. Maradona was a mosnter no doubt but it is arguable whether he was even the best of his generation, Some say Platini was...

So in ur opinion then would that mean Messi > Maradona?

Great to read stuff like this thread, awesome..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkQxY0yCno

Heres the link

Thx.... just a bit more, I found that I have the latest flashplayer installed...and updated...so i really have no idea why the videos here are just blank... I tried with Chrome and Firefox...