Pele at it again...

Devil-Is-Red wrote:Messi would have destroyed everyone in football back then.

Defender will have destroyed Messi physically back then. Rule was different, attacker must be talented and very strong in 1950-60. Messi will not survive.

Today, maradona or pele would destroy all defenses with the rules of tackling today.

Ganso wrote:look,Pele is an ignorant douche,but that doesnt take away the fact that he was one of the greats and the GOAT for a lot of people.

no one should give opinions without watching....

Why are you getting so hostile? I told you this thread isn't meant to compare the two and I don't give two shist who is better between them. I'm just annoyed over how Pele keeps repeating the same things over and over.

leemhuis wrote:

Devil-Is-Red wrote:Messi would have destroyed everyone in football back then.

Defender will have destroyed Messi physically back then. Rule was different, attacker must be talented and very strong in 1950-60. Messi will not survive.

Today, maradona or pele would destroy all defenses with the rules of tackling today.

Actually, Messi destroys defenders of today and Pele would destroy defenders of the past. This was in an article on Goal...jog on son.

leemhuis wrote:

Devil-Is-Red wrote:Messi would have destroyed everyone in football back then.

Defender will have destroyed Messi physically back then. Rule was different, attacker must be talented and very strong in 1950-60. Messi will not survive.

Today, maradona or pele would destroy all defenses with the rules of tackling today.

Maradona and Pele would be gassed after 30mins playing at the intensity of todays football if you want to somehow transport guys from different eras and made wild and impossible to prove claims.

leemhuis wrote:

Devil-Is-Red wrote:Messi would have destroyed everyone in football back then.

Defender will have destroyed Messi physically back then. Rule was different, attacker must be talented and very strong in 1950-60. Messi will not survive.

Today, maradona or pele would destroy all defenses with the rules of tackling today.

pretty funny how people say defenses have become more rigid,considering back in the maradona/pele days,defenders could break legs and walk free on the pitch,like what happened to pele in 66(or 62)

Oh please, the difference in tactical organisation then compared to now is stark.

Back in Pele's days teams were marking man to man.

Of course defence is more rigid now. Just because Pele had the possibilty of getting his leg broken by a tackle doesnt make him better, thats obsurd.

I'm talking about defenses being rigid(physically)not tactically better because of course that's much better now days

My bad then. But I dont think anyone would say todays football is more physical (in terms of what is allowed in a tackle) then even 10 years ago, let alone Pele years.

Blackmore. wrote:

leemhuis wrote:

Devil-Is-Red wrote:Messi would have destroyed everyone in football back then.

Defender will have destroyed Messi physically back then. Rule was different, attacker must be talented and very strong in 1950-60. Messi will not survive.

Today, maradona or pele would destroy all defenses with the rules of tackling today.

Actually, Messi destroys defenders of today and Pele would destroy defenders of the past. This was in an article on Goal...jog on son.

I see, Goal writer, young no sense of history and no ever watch closely the defender pele have to face, say Messi is better than Pele. Like when people say battistuta better than pele, or rivaldo better than pele. Only one player considered possible better than Pele, Diego Armando Maradona, jog on son.

I play soooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnn :lucas:

ROFL I meant Euros for Greece, was playing the WC in fm. lol.

Yea but Mole you make it sound like you have to have WC players in every department to win. The system as far as I'm concerned is the most important things not players. This isn't Garrinchas era.

TBH this is a silly arguement since there is no way to verify or falsify it seeing as Pele is kicking on deaths door.

The Franchise wrote:

leemhuis wrote:

Devil-Is-Red wrote:Messi would have destroyed everyone in football back then.

Defender will have destroyed Messi physically back then. Rule was different, attacker must be talented and very strong in 1950-60. Messi will not survive.

Today, maradona or pele would destroy all defenses with the rules of tackling today.

Maradona and Pele would be gassed after 30mins playing at the intensity of todays football if you want to somehow transport guys from different eras and made wild and impossible to prove claims.

Totally disagree. Just look at Messi, how much running does he really do in a game? Less than everyone else in my eyes.

Besides, this is an impossible topic. We don't know how Messi would have handled the rough housing back then. Nor do we know how Pele and Maradona would have handled the game today. To just write them off by saying the players of today are faster, superior, better trained, seems a bit naive to me though. Why are players of today superior? Better training & tactics, right? Well if those guys were around today, wouldn't they also benefit from these things? Truth is, they'd probably be way better than they already were.

Nothing to do with "running", its about intensity. Everything Messi does is full intensity, the fitness needed to do that as much as he does throughout the course of the game today cannot be undersold.

Todays players are vastly better conditioned then players of the past.

Anyway, my point was not to say anything comparing era's, that was kind of my entire point as I said later in the sentence.

Pele should worry about being #1 in his own country before being the GOAT

??? what.

Who else is gonna be #1 in Brazil?? Not Ronaldo, Not Romario, Not Rivaldo, Not Socrates, Not Garrincha, Not Rivelino...

0.10 Troll..ggnore.

Lol, I am discussing this on fb with some friends.

I am going to end this thread with a quote by legendary striker Romário:

"The silent Pelé is a poet."

Seriously, Pelé has always been a retard, a dumbass off the pitch. He is a Santos and a Brazil hero, but I'd never listen to him. Yes he's afraid. He said the same thing when Santos won the Libertadores last year and some reporters asked him if Neymar could reach his level. "when his score this many goals and win this many WCs..." joke. Pelé was injured in 1962, and I think Rivelino was much more impressive in 1970. Anyway, he is still the ultimate Brazilian legend, but I am not going to deny that his kingdom may not last forever.

/thread

20-30-40 years from now, a great young player will come through the ranks and this debate will still be raging on...

And as things stand "right now", Diego and Pele will still be the one's being compared to, not Messi. I must admit I was one of those that said that Maradona was the greatest ever, Pele was clearly second best in my mind.

My father with a smile on his face, would just shake his head at that statement... I'll never forget "thinking" how right I was and how he obviously was older and probably didn't understand the game as well as I did. Sadly, I now COMPLETELY understand where he was coming from. I don't know who was better but what I do remember is that my father didn't even try to explain to me how good Pele was, thinking about it now he obviously realized that I was too young to understand, and that I wouldn't be able to comprehend and accept without actually SEEING it for myself. How he knew was beyond me, but he obviously knew and left me alone in my own little ignorant world. Never seeing someone actually play, yet having the balls to crown someone else the best ever. Ignorant, isn't it?

Messi, fantastic player, but there was AT LEAST 1 player better than him. Saw it with my own eyes. Sorry, it's true! You guys can say whatever you like, you can quote whoever you like, but I LIVED IT... I saw it with my own eyes. I'm not relying on videos. I'm talking first hand proof.

People say I romanticize Maradona... and yes, surely I do. With that admitted though, as far as Maradona goes I can wholeheartedly say that I've NEVER ONCE in all the games I've seen him play, be anonymous. NOT ONCE, NOT EVER!!!! Messi on the other hand is "frequently" anonymous... One flash of brilliance is great... but it's just that... a flash of brilliance. These "older guys" who supposedly "wouldn't stand up to today's game", RAN EVERY GAME they played in. Oh, and by the way, they would often have not 1, not 2, but 3 players constantly around them that would make pepe look almost like a school boy. Why? In the case of Maradona, it was because there wasn't a Xavi, Iniesta, Sanchez, or Cesc to worry about. You only had "that guy" to take care of. Yet they failed so many times. And let's not forget that these guys were playing in an era where the advantage was is in the defenders favour. When these guys played, level was offside. You had to be COMPLETELY behind the last defender. A huge, huge difference to todays game. Pele may talk a lot... but don't for a second try to undermine all of his accomplishments. NO ONE WILL EVER ACCOMPLISH WHAT HE HAS AGAIN. BELIEVE THAT!

Intensity? Pressure? Those guys lived for that, they ate pressure and intensity for f*cking breakfast. They really THRIVED on it!

Don't worry, flame me all you like... in 10, 15, 20 years, I GUARANTEE you will understand what I'm talking about. When some other young up and comer who is very, very good comes around. And they'll compare him to best ever. And you'll all be where I am... and you'll all be laughing the same way I am now. The only difference is, you'll be calling Messi's name... when they were even greater players before him.

PS: Still waiting to hear about a "SINGLE THING" Messi can do "better" than Maradona. Just ONE THING! Stamina & intensity don't count. Skill does.

Never saw Pele play in the flesh but I have a far, far greater respect for his game now than when I was younger. Comparing Messi to Maradona... I'd say Messi is a talent that comes around every decade or 2. Maradona? Someone you'd see once in your lifetime. Sorry you guys missed him, but you did. In my heart, I know I'll never see someone that good again.

Aww, Pele is such a sweet elderly.

I think that's just a friendly banter, he knows Messi is already better than he ever was. He just likes to be in the media, and trying to keep the legend going.

Difference between seeing it live and seeing it later on video is?

And to be honest, your in a bit of a dream world here. I not once have said Messi over any of these players, but the way your going on about these guys is really....just, take a down a tad dude, the exaggeration is obvious.

"People always ask me 'When is the new Pele going to be born?' Never. My father and mother have closed the factory."

The Franchise wrote:Difference between seeing it live and seeing it later on video is?

And to be honest, your in a bit of a dream world here. I not once have said Messi over any of these players, but the way your going on about these guys is really....just, take a down a tad dude, the exaggeration is obvious.

Well, wasn't talking to you specifically...

However, you really need to ask me the difference between watching a player on video between watching them live? Seriously, you???

Btw, I don't need to take it down. Quite frankly, YOU guys need to take the MESSI LOVE down a notch. He's the best player in the world today yes, best ever??? Sorry, no f*cking chance! AND NEVER EVER WILL BE!!!! And it really isn't even close, it's not. Sorry that I judge him on someone who was infinitely better. That's probably why I'm so hard on him though, I'm judging him on levels he doesn't have the tools to possibly reach. And Messi is my favourite player btw, so it's not all that easy for me to say that. But the truth is truth. He's not nearly as good. He really isn't.

Don't worry, 20 years from now you'll be "exaggerating" how good Messi was too.

No, go on tell me the difference?

It sounds very much like, if you didnt watch it live, it doesnt count and your opinion cant be as good as mine. So please correct me.

And yeah, you do need to take it down. There is nothing Messi can do Maradona cannot..thats a load of crap.

I have not once here tried to rank Messi in any way, frankly, how your even comparing Messi to someone who played in game like 20 years earlier is beyond me, but whatever.

And no, I wont be exaggerating anything. There is no need to over glorify the past to knock down the current generation, everyone has their opinion, there is no need to go on crusades trying to prove them wrong using fantasy.

My point was, as you very well know... even I can be made to look great on videos, but it really doesn't give you an honest feel. For instance, if I were to look at Messi videos and judge him solely on that, I'd swear he was the second coming of christ and never mispassed a ball in his life. However, I think we both know, that's very far from the truth. He probably mispasses more balls then anyone else on Barca, yet his great goals/dribbles/plays make everyone forget all of that. That's what you guys are forgetting. You are constantly thinking about the good of his game without taking a step back and looking objectively of the glaring faults within his game.

Any second rate player can look good within a "compilation".

Besides that though, is it that hard for you to understand that I think he doesn't compare? Am I not entitled to spew my opinion on here the way all (you too) Messi lover's do?

I can break down every single point of the game and "in my mind" prove to you why Messi isn't as good as Maradona. Would it matter to you? Definitely not... So why should I bother? You will only deflect and say that the game has changed blah blah blah, etc... so what's the point. Messi is the best. This generation is best, etc... I get it. But I will never accept... Sorry, I know better and have seen better. Believe it or not!

Vapo's dad : Pele > Maradona

Vapo : Maradona > Pele > Messi

Us : Messi > Maradona > Pele > Neymar

Next Gen : Neymar > Messi > Maradona > Pele

kiranr wrote:Vapo's dad : Pele > Maradona

Vapo : Maradona > Pele > Messi

Us : Messi > Maradona > Pele > Neymar

Next Gen : Neymar > Messi > Maradona > Pele

Amen!

kiranr wrote:Vapo's dad : Pele > Maradona

Vapo : Maradona > Pele > Messi

Us : Messi > Maradona > Pele > Neymar

Next Gen : Neymar > Messi > Maradona > Pele

I'm not part of the 'US'. Too cool for that.